7

1.—9

126. Is there an objection to take boys coming from reformatories ?—There is. Perhaps I was rather unfortunate, however. They sent me bad boys, perhaps thinking I had better means of keeping them. I do not know whether this objection will hold good with many. 127. If we compel vessels to take these boys, do you think there will be a cry raised that we are trying to force a criminal class of lads iipon them ?—I do not think so. A great many vessels have boys out of the Kohimarama School. I never heard any objection, though some of the boys had to be sent back. 128. You never found any objection raised to the boys?— Not because they came from the training ship. 129. The vessel at Kohimarama was stationary ?—I think entirely so for four or live years. There was then a schooner to run down to Auckland, but it was just the same as if there had only been a stationary vessel. The boys I got had no knowledge of seamanship at all. 130. Would you recommend in the using of these schooners that they should go short voyages?— I would make them go to the lighthouses occasionally, and also do some surveying. When some master comes in and reports rooks or shoals, it would be a good thing to let one of these schooners go out and search for it. That would be making some practical use of them, and teaching the boys seamanship as well. 131. When a man takes a boy out of a training ship, I suppose he expects him to possess some knowledge of the duties required of him ?—Yes. 132. The master of a vessel would feel disgusted when he found that a boy he had taken from a training ship knew nothing ? —Pie no doubt would. I found that myself. The training ship boys I had were really no good. 133. Do you think this was the fault of the system?—l think so. As I said before I think these small schooners which have been referred to might be turned to some account, and to a certain extent they might be made to pay their expenses. Suppose the lighthouse steamer came to grief. There would be the Auckland schooner at one end, and the Wellington boat at the other ready to do her work. 134. I suppose you would want about six hands on a schooner of a hundred tons?—l think with a crew of these boys such a vessel could do very well with one hand. 135. There will not then be much expense in keeping hands on one of these schooners ?—Not at all. When the vessel went to sea there would be no need to push her to make a rapid passage. She would only hare to feel her way along. 136. Mr Macandreio.~] You say that English ships are manned by foreigners now ?—Nearly all. 137. Does this apply to ships of the Empire or to New Zealand ships?—l refer to ships that, come from Home as well as to New Zealand vessels. I do not think I have an Englishman, Scotchman, or Irishman on board the Stella among the crew. 136. You think that our race is abandoning the sea?— Yes; because we have not compelled anyone to learn seamanship. 139. Has the rate of wages anything to do with it ] —There may be something in that, but I think, as 1 said before, that the chief reason is, that young men and boys are not now compelled to learn seamanship. 140. There are numbers of people employed in the fisheries at Home which are supposed to be the great nurseries of seamen ]—We do not find many of them coming here. Ido not know what becomes of them. Even our coasting trade has a lot of foreigners engaged in it. 141. Mr Swauson.^ Cannot these boys knot and splice?— Very little. 142. Nothing of any practical use?— Nothing the boys at Kohimarama learned was of any use on board a steamer. Knotting and that sort of work has gone quite out of date in these days of wire rigging. We use chains and shackles now and use wire where we used to have rope and a uiarlin spike to work with. 143. Did not these boys from the training school know the ropes?— They did not know them for a little while. They were all laid up with sickness directly they went to sea. 144. Surely these boys ought to have known where to go when told?— There were no ropes to learn them in the fore-and-aft schooner. I think she only had about four ropes. The lads had very little knowledge of ropes when I got them. 145. Then you think that for training sailors that the training ship at Kohimarama was a failui-e ?—- I think so. If the lads had been in a vessel that was moving about occassionally, the training might have been of some use. All the bo 3's learnt there I think they might have learnt at a Government school. 146. Had the boys learnt to box the compass?—l do not think so. 147. Mr Maeandrew."] I suppose some of the boys knew what a ropes' end meant?— Some of them ought to have known what it meant. I have already stated that most of the boys I had from the training school turned out very badly. 1 found afterwards that most of them had been sent to the training school for something very bad, and I consider that I was rather unfortunate with these boys. lam speaking of their conduct, and I may also say that they had not learnt any seamanship at all. 148. You think that the taste for maritime pursuits has died out, and that people will have to be compelled to learn seamanship ?—I think so, or else the people find something better to do. There are a good many reasons why ship owners will not have the boys. Boys arc a perfect nuisance on board ship. I think one of the chief reasons that English boys do not go to sea is, that the ships do not want them. They can get able men from some other country who have already learnt at someone else's expense. That is the reason there are so many foreigners in the English service. A troublesome boy beats everyone on board ship, and in almost all cases someone gets into trouble over the boy. Owners naturally do not care to take them if they can help it. To send boys to sea, however, is the only way to get seamen. 149. Mr Daniel.) Why are there so many foreigners in the British vessels?— They learn to be seamen in their own country and then they see that they can get higher wages in our trade and flock to our ships. Our owners seeing that they can get able men in this way will not take boys. 150. Mr. Joycc.~\ I will put a question that occurred tome at a previous meeting of the Committee. It is this :—Supposing that the boys are received on board ship, would the captain prefer boys who had come from a training ship, or boys who had been well trained so far as discipline is concerned at some

Captain Fairchikl.

21st July, 1882,