7

I.—2b

61. Major Te Wheoro.] "When the Natives offered 1,000 acres, and when the Government agreed to take that 1,000 acres, what did they do with it ?—The Government agreed, when the Natives stated they would give the 1,000 acres, to do their best to bring about a settlement of the question by dealing with Mr. Sutton, but they never accepted the 1,000 acres. The 1,000 acres are not now in the hands of the Government. 62. Did not the Government attempt to offer Mr. Sutton that 1,000 acres when they got the consent of the Maoris ? —I should prefer that question being asked Mr. Bryce, but my belief is the negotiations broke off. Mr. Bryce: I never offered Mr. Sutton the 1,000 acres. 63. Major Te Wheoro'] In what position does the land stand now, that 1,000 acres, in connection with the Government ? Is it still in the hands of the Government ?—lt is in the hands of the Natives. 64. Did the Government inform the Natives the land was in their hands, in a letter, upon their concession having led to no definite result ? —I think the correspondence shows the Natives were told the negotiations had broken down. 65. Did the Government inform the Natives at all in any way that the 1,000 acres had fallen back into their hands, through failure in carrying out the negotiations ? —I do not know whether any formal announcement was made to them of that, but it was evident from what transpired that the negotiations had failed, and that their offer, therefore, was of no avail. 66. The Chairman"] It strikes me the answer of Mr. Rolleston is a little likely to be misapprehended. I should like to put this question for the satisfaction of Major Te Wheoro. It is this :As a mere matter of course, that 1,000 acres belong to the Natives if the negotiations failed ? —Certainly It was not Government land. It was simply saying this: "We will convey this land to the Crown on being called upon to do so, in the event of certain contingencies happening;" but they never were called upon to do so. Major Te Wheoro: I was under the impression, I thought the land had been given over by the Natives to the Government. I would never have asked the question if I had not thought so. The Chairman : Only conditionally 67 Major Te Wheoro"] However, I should like once more to be thoroughly clear as to whether the Natives did give up that land, or whether they only offered to give it up? —I understood distinctly they offered to give the land up with a view to a settlement, if a settlement could be made. They offered to give it conditionally upon the Government being able to make an arrangement with it. 68. Mr. Tomoana.] I want to ask the same question again. Did the Maoris offer to give up the 1,000 acres conditionally ?—Yes, it was, as I understand it, an offer to give it up conditionally upon other parries coming into a common agreement. 69. The Natives said 1,000 acres will be given ? —I understood the Natives agreed to give the 1,000 acres, if the Government could with that 1,000 acres make an arrangement. The Chairman : There seems some idea in the minds of these gentlemen, although the negotiations with Mr. Sutton had fallen through, the Natives might be called upon to sell away —to part with that land. I think if we could get a sufficiently explicit word, we might clear that up. I think I see that is the difficulty We want it clearly understood by them that the Government have no claim whatever upon the land, only while they can arrange for the other piece. 70. Captain Russell.] Have the Government any claim whatsoever upon this 1,000 acres ?—None whatever. Mr. Tomoana : Why I asked the question was, because it was put this way—it w ras answered this way : That the land was offered by the Natives if certain conditions could be carried out. I wish to say that the land was given up by the Maoris as their part towards the settlement of the difficulty I do not know of any word, no definite word, from the Government returning that land to the Natives. 71. Captain Russell.] I would like to ask whether, the negotiations with Mr. Sutton having broken down, the Government has any claim whatever or any right over this 1,000 acres? —The Government has no hold whatever upon the land. 72. And the land is the property of the original owners ?—lt is the property of the original owners. 73. Mr. Sutton.] Can Mr. Eolleston inform the Committee whether the owners of Te Kohurau, or any one of the grantees of Te Kohurau, ever consented to this arrangement?—l understood the Natives who offered this to the Government were entitled to do so —were the Natives entitled to make the offer. 74. I should like to ask whether or not among the papers there is a letter from Captain Preece, informing the Government that either three or four of the grantees were no parties to it, and had nothing to do with it ?—I do not recollect that. Mr. Bryce : The point was raised very distinctly in the report read to the Committee. Sir G. Grey : I think Mr. Bryce gave evidence on that point yesterday —that the Natives who offered this land were authorized to ; that there was no objection on the part of the owners to give it up. Mr. Bryce : Yes ; it was the Natives who said arrangements could be made. The Chairman : The Government were satisfied they could get the land. Mr. Bryce: Yes ; that is so. 75. Mr. Sutton.] In reference to the Wharerangi Block, I should like to ask Mr. Eolleston whether my contention throughout the whole of the negotiations was this : that Wharerangi belonged to the same people, but that Te Kohurau did not; and that I was willing to accept Wharerangi in exchange, and to pay the balance in value upon a fair valuation, but that I would not take the other block? —I did not conduct the negotiations with Mr. Sutton about Wharerangi, and I do not know what passed thereon, except what appears on the papers.