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experience as a Visiting Justice as to tho discipline and accommodation of the Wellington Gaol. Iv the first place, do you think tho accommodation is sufficient? —-It is not sufficient for classification. 526. There are no means of classification ? —No, so far as the males are concerned ; there are ou ' the female side. 527. Do you consider it advisable that the long-sontence penal-servitude men should be iv tho same part of the gaol as the ordinary first offenders or short-sentence men ?—I do not. 528. As to inspection, do you think it is necessary to substitute for the inspection of Justices, or do you think it desirable that, in addition-to the inspection by Justices, there should be skilled scientific inspection by a General Government officer? —I do not know that I should be justified iv saying it is necessary. I scarcely think so. 529. You think A Tisiting Justices in all cases could detect anything that went wrong in their ordinary visits ?—AVell, I think so. The gaol is very well managed by the present Gaoler. It might be different if we had another sort of man. 530. Supposing there was an officer inclined to take advantage of his position, do you think the Visiting Justices are in such a position as to be able to detect misconduct ?—I hardly think they are. Very much must depend upon the good conduct of the gaoler. 531. If the long-sentence prisoners were put in a sep.trate establishment would there then bo room at the gaol for classifying the ordinary offenders ? —I think there would. lam speaking without a knowledge of the number of men there are in the gaol. 532. Is there habitual discontent amongst the prisoners?—l do not think so. 533. You have had no complaints? —Very few. 534. AVhen prisoners come out of gaol, as a rule do you believe that they find much difficulty in getting back to their ordinary avocations? —There was a difficulty, but not so much of late years. 535. You do not hear of any complaints of that kind? —Occasionally an instance will occur, but not frequently. 536. The prisoners are at work at the hospital grounds, are they not ?—Yes. 537. That is one gang. Another gang, I understand, are making a road for the Municipality ?— No ; they are making a road on the Terrace, but it is for the Hospital Trust. It is ou land which used to belong to the Town Belt, but it is now under the Hospital Trust. None of the men are employed on Corporation works. 538. No payment has been made for that work by the Hospital Trust ? —No. 539. Do you find any ill-effects from the prisoners working in public in that way?— Not under the present circumstances, because very few of the public see the men at either of the places where they work. 510. The prisoners do not meet their friends outside at this work ?—I do not think so. There might perhaps be a little of that sort of thing, but not to any great extent, like it was when they were employed on Corporation works. 541. What sort of work do you think prisoners can be put to most advantageously ?—I do not think they can be better employed than they are at present. 542. They are brickmaking ?—Yes ; and road-making. 513. Do you think they could be well employed in adding to the prison by building concrete additions, or that sort of thing ? —lt would require skilled labour. Were they trained to that no doubt it would be a very good thing. I see something of the sort has been done in the Lyttleton Gaol. 544. It would be a good trade for them to know when they came out ? —Yes, very suitable. 545. Do you think they could be suitably employed, the weaker men especially, in growing garden produce for use in the gaol? —Yes, very profitabby. 546. Is there any room for making a garden iv connection with the Wellington Gaol ?—I think so. 547. Enough to supply the gaol with vegetables ?—Yes. 548. In your opinion is the ration scale a satisfactory one ? —Yes, very. 519. I understand the Gaoler gets all the rations from one person, except the butcher's meat? — Yes, I think that is the case; and the food appears to be very good. 550. Do you think the quantity allowed is sufficient?—As near as I can tell I think it is about satisfactory in every way. 551. Tobacco is allowed the prisoners ?—Yes, a stick a week. 552. And it is given out to them indiscriminately. Every man gets it whether he smokes or not ? —I think so. 553. That is done with the knowledge of the Justices?— Yes. 554. Of course those who do not smoke pass it to those who do?— Yes; I think the allowance of tobacco is a good thing, because its stoppage may be used as a serious punishment. 555. Hon. Mr. Gisborne.] But it would be no punishment if those who did not smoke could pass it to the smokers who had had their ration stopped ? I understand one result of the system is that a man may get as much tobacco as he pleases outside, and there is no check against his taking it inside the gaol. If searched, and the tobacco found, he can reply he is allowed to carry tobacco. Is not that objectionable? —Yes, in the way you put it, certainly; but I have not seen any ill effects from the system. 556. There are different rules in different gaols, I understand ? —Yes ; so I understand. 557. Mr. Tole.] Have you had much sickness in your gaol ? —No ; very little. It is iv a very healthy situation. 558. Do you know anything about the instruction the prisoners get ? —There is a reading class in the evening. 559. Do you know anything about the attendance of clergymen? —A clergyman of the Church of England holds a service every Sunday ; and one of the Roman Catholic clergy also attends. 560. AVould there be plenty of room for classification, so far as space is concerned, if the longsentence prisoners were removed ?—No.

Mr. DmnsfieUl,

16th Aug., 1878.