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cases ; but it cannot be prevented. That is one instance iv which the Prison Regulations cannot be carried into effect in consequence of the arrangement of our gaol. 92. Mr. Tole.] But are not men brought up before the Visiting Justices for such offences ?—lt is no use ; you cannot prevent it—the men are altogether. 93. Hon. Mr. Fox.] I suppose you do not find it very frequent that men give their food away ?— No; they most of them eat well; but there are a few cases in which small men cannot eat so much as men six feet high, and these give their surplus food to others. 94. What is the present allowance ?— I do not recollect just now. It is in the Prison Regulations. 95. The Chairman.] You say the present allowance of bread is not excessive ?—Yes. 96. Well, I am told at Lyttelton there are bucketsful of bread w7asted. —I do not think it would be well to reduce it. 97. Mr. Rolleston.] The meat is not more than sufficient ?—No. 97a. Mr. Swanson.] How many meals a day do you give them ?—Three ; one before they go out to work, 7 o'clock, another at 12, and another when they leave off work. 98. Mr. Tole.] What means have you of keeping order in the gaol at meal-times ? —The officers' room is right close to the place where the prisoners eat, and if the least noise occurs an officer, by looking through a window, can see the cause. 99. Can the officers, as they sit, observe everything that is done ? —No. 100. They cannot, then, see one prisoner passing food to another ?—No; the rule cannot be enforced. 101. If you had a warder in the room it could be prevented ? —They would continue to do it in some way. It seems to me that the matter is of small importance. 102. Then what is the use of the rule ? —lt is as well to keep it, I think, because it makes such conduct an offence, and if selling rations were to occur the Magistrate could, on its detection, punish. 103. The Chairman.] Is tobacco allowed under any circumstances ? —One stick of tobacco a week is allowed to every prisoner. 104. Is not that contrary to the regulations ? —No ; smoking is allowed at certain times, and it is a good thing such a regulation has been introduced, I think. I remember that when tobacco was forbidden we were in eternal trouble. Mixing with the free labourers outside the prisoners would have tobacco, and it was practically impossible to prevent breaches of the regulation. It is far wiser to allow tobacco under certain restrictions, and prevent this constant breach of the rules. 105. Mr. Swanson^ Would it not be well to make the granting of tobacco a special indulgence only to be extended to the men who exert themselves to do their work properly and behave well ?—lt would, if we had the means of proper classification, but not under present circumstances, when the men all work together. We have not now sufficient means of discriminating between those who honestly work hard all day and those who do not. Then, again, those who were deprived of tobacco for not working hard would manage somehow to get a supply from their associates. There is a good deal of sympathy between the men, and one would assist another, knowing he himself might on next day need assistance in the same way. 106. The Chairman.] With regard to the allowance : You say a stick of tobacco a week is given to each man ?—Yes. 107. Is that allowance served out to non-smokers as well ? —lt is served out to every man alike. 108. Under these circumstances some men must get two sticks a week sometimes ? —No doubt. 109. There must be some men who do not use their tobacco—do not smoke ? —A man soon learns to smoke in prison. 110. But there are some men who cannot, physically, stand tobacco?—S.es ; but as a rule they learn to smoke very soon. One man incites another to it. 111. Mr. Tole.] Perhaps that arises from the want of something to occupy their mind? —No ; a man's time is fully occupied from morning till night. 112. Have they any time to themselves under the Regulations ? —They have an hour and a half every night before bed-time. They smoke before going out to work in the morning, and again when they come home at night. 113. Is there any special time altowed for smoking?— Yes; a quarter of an hour is allowed. Pipes are served out, and at the expiry of a quarter of an hour are collected again. 114. The Chairman.] When they stop work for dinner are they allowed to smoke ?—No ; there is no smoking outside the gaol. 115. Mr. Tole.] When is the tobacco served out?— Every week. 116. Mr. Swanson.] If it was served out only to men who did their work well, and behaved themselves, could not the tobacco allowance be utilized as a reward for good conduct and punishment of bad? —I think it wonld be a farce to stop tobacco, because they would pass it one to the other if some were without. Of course if proper means of classification were provided, which would enable us to carry out such a system, it might work very well. I am speaking with reference to present arrangements. 117. The Chairman.] I suppose to stop tobacco would be the most serious punishment that could be inflicted ?—lt would ; they would willingly go without meals for the sake of tobacco. 118. If tobacco were stopped for a time would not men lose the desire for it? —My experienceteaches me the contrary. We did stop tobacco for a time once; but the craving for it seemed to increase, and appeared ungovernable when they saw persons outside smoking. 119. When men go out of prison is there any allowance of money made to them ?—As a rule, no ; nor is it needed. In cases where it is absolutely necessary that something should be done representation is made to the Government. Last week money was given to a prisoner who was discharged. The reason it is not needed is, that most men can get work immediately on leaving the gaol; and it would be a mistake to give the other class money, because it would really form an inducement to them to go to gaol. I have frequently known men get work the very day of their discharge. A man will

Mr. Head.

9th Aug., 1878