44

G.—s

Eogan was the paid servant of Mr. Eead, and that I would inform the Government that he was siding with Mr. Read. I have told Sir D. McLean that Mr. Rogan was siding with a European. I was angry when I used those words in Court. At the time the judgment was given, Judge Eogan said that the Assessor, Hone Peeti, had said that Heuare Potae had no claim to Tuakau and Waingaromia. After the decision, Judge Rogan had a meeting, at which he spoke of Mr. Wilson's report, and turned to me and spoke of my having complained to Sir D. McLean. I could see that he was angry. I did not say anything to him, as I was very dark about the decision. At the Court in April, when I had the altercation with Mr. Eogan, I had been drinking, although I wai not drunk. I could understand all that was said. I should have spoken in the same manner if I had not been drinking. I think I was right in speaking as I did. I was in the Court next day when Eutene spoke, but I did not remain there long. I saw Rutene when giving evidence. Rutene's talk, to my thinking, was right. lam not aware that he was tipsy. He can speak for himself. I think he conducted himself properly. Mr. Eogan arranged with me and Meiha Eopata not to give judgment until we returned from Wellington. The arrangement holds good. The lands have not been investigated. [The Commission adjourned from 1 to 2 p.m.] Since that arrangement, judgment has been given on Tuakau and Tauwhareparae. I was present when judgment was given. I. had not been heard. The steamer was sent for me, and judgment was given the same day. The investigation had taken place before at Wai-o-matatini. None of us stood up before the judgment was given to say anything. The decision was given on Tuakau and Waingaromia 2 directly the Court opened. I did not know that decision was then to be given. I did not expect more evidence to be taken; I considered the case concluded. The only thought I had was as to a rehearing. I know Mangarara No. 2. The Government gave the land to me. I remember the Court when Uawa was investigated. I have always considered that Mangarara 2 has not been investigated. Hori Mokai belongs to the Aitangahauiti, Karauria is chief. I have asked for a rehearing of Taukau and Waingaromia 2. Gross-examined by Mr. W. TV. Wilson.] I never heard of Cooper paying money for the land in 1873. Pita went to Koamu to ask to be admitted to a share in that land. He might have had negotiations with Cooper without my knowing it. I only got £10 out of the £500, which was half of the £1,000 referred to. It was not Mr. Wilson who told me Judge Eogan was in the pay of Eead. He and I have had conversations as to the faults of the Court; he has spoken to me of Judge Eogan siding with Eead. I do not recollect offering to take 5,000 acres of Pita to sell to Read. I was thinking of selling Huiarua to Read. I never said I and Wilson would be the means of removing Judge Rogan. I heard it referred to by Judge Rogan at the Court. He said we should not be able to do it, but Mr. Wilson might be removed. This was at the meeting after the Court. When the £1,000 was paid, neither Ruka te Aratapu nor Parahuia received any money. Ruka did not belong to the tribe ; he belongs to the North. I was at a dinner party when I told Sir D. McLean about Judge Rogan ; there were four chiefs there, at Sir D. McLean's house. I asked him to appoint a Judge, as I did not like Judge Rogan, as he sided with the Europeans. I afterwards saw Judge Rogan at Napier. He told me at Uawa of what I had said to Sir D. McLean. He said it was not the conduct of a chief, but a slave, to make attacks behind his back, but notwithstanding that, he would shake hands with me. At the Uawa Court, I got angry, because the Court would not hear the cases as I wished. I consider a man drunk when he cannot speak and falls down. The next day I saw Rutene turn his back on the Court and address the people. When judgment was to be given in Tuakau, the steamer was sent for me by Judge Rogan to Tokomaru, but he did not say in his letter he was going to give judgment in those cases. He-examined by Mr. J. A. Wilson.'] Any remarks made by Mr. Wilson about the Judge siding with Read were in respect of lands under treaty by him, and were made very recently, since the April Court. At the meeting after the Court, Judge Eogan said to me, " I have done with you, and now I turn to Mr. Wilson." Mr. Wilson was not present. The Judge mentioned Mr. Wilson's report. [With respect to Mr. Wilson's statements that all the cases heard by the Court during the year were cases in which Eead was interested, it was ruled that evidence of such a general nature could not be admitted, but that evidence must be given of particular cases to show that Judge Rogan had wrongly neglected or postponed the hearing of them, although they were before him.] Me. J. A. Wilson, recalled: I put in telegrams between myself and the Native Minister, April, 1876. On the 12th April I suggested the expediency of going to Wellington to see him. I sent the telegram by my clerk to the Telegraph Office just before lunch time. I received no reply until the next day about half-past 7 p.m., or a little before. It was delivered at my house to myself. I opened and read it, and put it in my pocket without showing it to anybody; nor did I mention it to any one that day. During that day (the 13th) my clerk told me that Mr. Duncan McKay had asked him whether I was not thinking of going to Wellington. I was not surprised, because I had had my suspicions for some time that information leaked out somewhere. On the 14th (Good Friday) I went to my office. I did not expect to find my clerk there. I found him there making out a list of the officers in the Native Department in Wellington. He asked me whether I had received an answer from Wellington to my telegram of the 12th. During these days he was quite sober. He said, " Cooper has had an answer," or some words to that effect; "he says the Government do not wish to see you." I took the telegram out of my pocket and gave it him to file. He said, "There must be some treachery somewhere," or words to that effect. He pointed to the list he was copying, and said he was doing it for me to look at and form some opinion as to who was in fault. I had told no one before sending the telegram on the 12th that I intended to do so ; nor did I say a word to any one about it up to the time of my getting the answer. On hearing what my clerk said, I reported the matter in a telegram the same day. I have no idea where the blame rests. Information has not leaked out since I complained to Sir Donald McLean.

Appendix, Kos. 61, 62, and 63.