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Hetaraka te Wliakaunu (Urewera) : We will see about Ngatihineuru and the Mohaka boundary. Our only reason in coming to this Court was to have the Waikare boundary defined, that is, Mangapapa, wh"ich I claim through conquest. We destroyed Urupani, and have ever since considered the land as ours. My house stands at Tukurangi. Himiona Maunu (Xgatikahungunu) : 1 cannot allow the claim of Wi Hautaruke (Urewera) to Ruakiture. Makarini said that he had extinguished my fires ou that land, and that by that act the mana reverted to him. He errs. We defeated them over and over again whenever they attacked us. Iliakara Kaimalca (Ngatikahungunu) : As you will persist in mentioning Mangapapa, I say that it belongs to me. I do not belong to Ruapani. You may have defeated Euapani, but not so with us. I own Omaihi, the Whakaumu, the Urumakaroa, Matakohai, and Tukurangi. Euapani was never there. He owned Tutaemaro. Confine yourself to Waikaremoana, and do not come beyond it. If I were to talk to you about ancestry, you would not understand me. You do not know the ancestors to whom I have referred. No -. the Urewera are not competent to trace their ancestral connection with the owners of this land. No, you are too ignorant of them. Hetaraka te Whakaunu (Urewera) : Amohauga was an ancestor who travelled towards the north of this island. He afterwards returned and annihilated your people. He then proceeded to that part of the country occupied by the Urewera, and gained possession of it. We lay claim to Mangapapa through ancestral connection with the original owners. Raphnana Tunupaura (Ngatikahungunu) : What ancestor of yours came to Mangapapa to lay down boundaries? It was Eakaipaka and others of my forefathers who fixed the boundaries, and through "whom in like manner my claim extends to Turnnga. Tama te Eangi was a forefather of mine, who portioned off the land. The outer boundary was at Uru-o-Makoro, a place far beyond Mangapapa. He then pursued his course towards the Waiau, and here he met Makoro. They fought: the result of which fight was that Tama te Eangi gained the battle and took the land. In continuing the prosecution of his travels over the country, he established landmarks — rahuis —wherever lie went, and. to this day many of them remain quite unobliterated. Now, I would ask you, the chiefs and people of the Urewera tribe, where have you marked the land in token of ownership indicative of your right ? It is only to-day that I have heard that a meeting-house of yours is upon the land. Tv Takangahau (Urewera) :In former times there was but little interest taken in the land. It yielded scarcely any produce, and very few were the inhabitants. My ancestor was the great progenitor of our race, and he too it was who turned his attention to the cultivation of the soil. It was in consequence of the perpetration of a murder that the practice of warfare became initiated among us. Then, the people occupying the land on the northern extremities of our boundary, the Waikato tribe, sought vengeance for the woman who was slain, and so matters progressed. One war brought on another, until we found ourselves embroiled with Ngatikahungunu. It was at Eahui-a-Mahca where the engagement took place. At one period of our history all the inhabitants of the Wairoa and Turanga were in the bondage of the Urewera. Tor a long space of time the Natives along the coast could be nowhere found, except in close proximity to the mouths of the rivers. They fled before us from the inland parts to the coast. They were vanquished from those very blocks to which they now lay claim. When we followed them up in their flight we found them, as I have already stated, at the river mouths. Waka (Ngatikahungunu) : We were always to be found in the interior where stood our homes, but you never approached us except by stealth. Tv Takangahau (Urewera) : The Papuni Block I claim through my ancestor Te Mihi. We defeated all the original occupants. Wherefore I claim the land, a claim based upon the right of conquest. Himiona Maunu (Ngatikahungunu) : You may have defeated the people, but you did not get the land. Makarini te Wharehuia (Urewera) : You have no claim at Huiarau. Our claim is through Amohanga. He made the Mangapapa our boundary line. When we restored peace Kahungunu left, but my people alone remained, from which it may be readily perceived that the land was my ancestors. If otherwise, why did Kahungunu depart ? I still urge my claim to Papuni. Wi Tipuna (Ngatikahungunu) : You never had the land. I will point out your correct genealogical descent. (Genealogy traced.) The ancestor TeMihi named by Tv Takangahau never had a claim to Papuni. Your ancestors defeated the occupants of the land, but their fires were never effectually extinguished. The people survived the inroads you made upon them, and never lost the management of the land. You are yourselves aware that when I sell any of the land you apply to me for a share in the proceeds, thereby tacitly admitting a right which you cannot subvert. As to Wi Hau Taruke, he had no authority for putting my name in the application that was made asking for the land to be adjudicated upon. The correct course would have been for him to obtain my sanction first. Apirana Teihana (Urewera). having traced his genealogy, stated that he claimed as a descendant of Ai-Ikiturangi. He continued : I inserted your name in the application, and did so because I considered it entitled to appear there, you along with myself being one of the owners of the land. Heremia te Whakaato (Ngatikahungunu): I have a claim to Huiarau, a fact I still adhere to. In Pukehori's time this boundary spoken of was never known. Karaitiana Takamoana (Ngatikahungunu) : Tamihana in his speech says something about the disputed boundary. I should like to be informed of where that boundary is. Hapimana Tunupaura (Ngatikahuugunu) : The Government defined their own boundaries when they confiscated the land. Karaitiana Takamoana (Ngatikahungunu) : When was that boundary laid down ? Hapimana Tunupaura (Ngatikahungunu) : We are not certain with regard to that question, but we are concerning the original confiscation. Not so with the second act of confiscation by the Government, for we were not aware of the extent of the land taken by the Government. It was only during the late visit of Sir Donald McLean that we discovered beyond doubt that the land was no longer ours.