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Hoani Wainoho (Ngatikahungunu) : I am not in the paid service of the Government, nor have I ever importuned the Government by applications for relief, in compensation for any assistance I may have rendered in taking part against those who rebelled. I adopted the cause which, according to my own view of matters, had justice and right to support it, and in doing so I disregarded all feelings of kinsmanship. I acted as willingly against our own people who were led away into the ranks of Hauhauism as I did against the Urewera. And I fought against the Urewera, for they said that which was evil of us. You, the Urewera, stated that your heels would press down the necks of those associated with the Government side. Another of you said he would adorn the girdle round his waist with the heads of the chiefs who became allied with the Government. Again, another of you declared that he would convert the head of Mokena Kohere into a snare wherewith to decoy kakas from the trees. Such is the stamp of man we were forced to take up arms against. And I would ask you, is it right or proper that men should parley about payment for fighting against such people as those I have just referred to ? On this very ground where we are now standing, Sir Donald McLean offered to remunerate me for my services, and I told him I was not in need of payment. Ifakarini te Wharelnda (Urewera) : I differ from you. Toil acted with the Government under whose direction you fought against us. Tou were nothing more than a pononga utu —a paid servant of the Queen. Tolm (Ngatikahungunu) : And you, Makarini, were an ww-paid servant of the King. Son Wkarerangi (Urewera-Ngatiruapani) : I take entire exception to what Ngatikahungunu state relative to their boundary. They have the assistance of the Government. It should be our endeavour to remove all obstacles surrounding the present question, by dealing with it on purely ancestral grounds. Toha Rahurahu (Ngatikahungunu) : Without prolonging the discussion to an unnecessary length, I may say that I am quite willing to admit the claim of one or two of you, that is, those who possess an independent right to the Putere Block. But I have no intention whatever of consenting to all of you, as having an interest in the land in question. Makarini te "VVharehuia has no claim to any of the four blocks. Hapimana Tunupaura (Ngatikalmngunu) : Although I have stood up to speak, there is nothing of importance left for me to say, for you, the Urewera, have brought the whole discussion to a close by stating that yon leave the determination of the boundaries in the hands of the Native Land Court. My o*rn claim is Mangapapa, and it was from that place my forefathers drove away your ancestors. Kalmngunu travelled all over that laud. What ancestor of the Urewera people was ever at Mohaka, or at any of those lands ? lam Kahungunu. The Urewera is but a chip from our great progenitor. Why do you not run over your genealogy ? Enumerate some of the deeds of your ancestors ; tell me of their prowess in those generations that have passed away, so that I may learn of where those fathers of yours really existed. As things are at present, as far as lam concerned, the circumstances in connection with your claims are quite in obscurity. To now verge upon another topic, I may tell you that such wealth as I accumulate I find results in advantage to me. Tou, too, cau have the wealth such as that I speak of. I too have the full control and management of my own business, nor have I voluntarily parted with land to the Government. The Government acted upon its own power in the matter of taking the land. Notwithstanding that I should submit to whatever course the Government lays down, it must not be inferred therefrom that I am prepared to undergo the same subservience at your hands. I have already met you on two or three different occasions with a view to disposing of this question, but no beneficial result accrued. To-day you again display the same apathetic indifference in having the whole dispute thoroughly entered into while we are here. Hori Wharerangi (Urewera-Ngatiruapani) : In some of the observations you have just made, you have not always availed yourself of the truth. So far from your ever having been dominant to me, and assisting my location upon the land, you were yourself a leai main kai of mine. Tou were defeated in the first fight that took place between us. Then you remained in vassalage. In later times the Government aided you in your efforts to overthrow me, but you have failed to accomplish your ends. Ihahara Wharemaho (Ngatikahungunu) : Tou, the Urewera, were the hai indhi Icais. Prom the period in which lived Te Eito-o-te-Eangi you have been considered such. Kokorangi and Whitiawa are places where you procured tribute for us. At Manawarua your ancestor Wairua was placed in an umu, and at the same place the Urewera tribe were completely routed by the Ngatikahungunu. Again did you suffer defeat at Mangaharuru, and many also were the hangis prepared after the close of the fight. After this occurrence all trace of the Urewera tribe was lost save on the borders of the Waikato. Makarini te Wharehuia (Urewera) : Umuariki was our ancestor. He fell a victim to your vengeance—to Ngatiruapanis. We bore this in our thoughts, and at Pukehuia we obtained recompense for Umuariki's murder. Another evil deed was perpetrated by Ngatikahungunu, for which Tieki paid the penalty. Then peace was made. We gained the last conquest. I merely mention this as relating to my claim to land about Waikare. It was at that place the Urewera gathered when Ngapuhi came, when an attack was made on the Waikotore pa. Not one of the enemy escaped. We there encountered your ancestor, Te Amo. He fell into the ambuscade that awaited him. He was slain, and we returned triumphant to Waikare. Again w re met you at Owhio, but you apparently deemed it better to retreat. Tukurangi then became our chief place of residence. Eeverting now to a more recent period, when I myself became trammelled in the meshes of war, it was not to the Ngatikahungunu that fact owed its accomplishment. It was to the Pakeha. How then can you, the Ngatikahungunu, presume to speak of me as if I were a refugee? Tamihana Huata (Ngatikahungunu) : If you confine yourself to Waikare, I will withdraw all my opposition to your claim. It is your boundary as at present claimed that I object to. Where do you state your boundary is ? ILakarini te Wharehuia (Urewera) : At Ohiwa. Tamihana Huata (Ngatikahungunu) : I have dwelt at Ohiwa all my life, but never before heard of