1.—6

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371. Did you not tell me that this swamp block—the "Waikato-Piako Swamp—was only surrounded by a fringe of swamp ?—I could not have told you that. 372. That it was a fringe of swamp ; and that in the centre the land rises greatly —three feet above flood level ?—No; I told you that the land from the river bank inland was low; the further I went in it got lower for some distance, and then appeared to rise a little. 373. I put the question to you again : Did you not tell me—and I will use almost your own words— there was a fringe of swamp ; that towards the centre the land became dryer and rose a great deal — three feet above the flood level ? —I did not say any particular height. I remarked that in the centre it appeared to me to rise. 374. Above water-level ?—Above the part where the water rests. 375. Did you tell me anything about the water receding ?—I do not recollect. I did not go into minute particulars. We met in the street. I had no map. 376. Did you express the opinion that the block was very valuable land ?—I did not. I set very little value upon it. 377. Have you not expressed the opinion that it was a valuable block ?—I do not think I said it was a very valuable block. 378. Have you not said to me that it was a swindle, the Government taking 2s. Gd. per acre when they could have had ss. for it from other people ?—I told you Mr. Dilworth would have given ss. only for a portion; and you told me the Government only got 2s. 6d. 379. Did you not say that the transaction could only be regarded as a swindle, taking 2s. 6d. an acre from one person and refusing ss. per acre from another ?—I do not know whether I used the word " swindle." It is strong language. 3SO. Or an equivalent expression ?—lt is language Ido not think I could have used. I remember saying that Mr. Dilworth would have paid ss. per acre for whatever he might select when he proposed to buy. You said the Government only got 2s. Gd. 381. lam going to ask you a specific question about this, and I want a definite answer. I will not use the word "swindle." Did you not speak of the transaction as an improper one, the Government having taken 2s. Gd. an acre from one set of persons while they refused ss. from others ?—I said Mr. Dilworth, for the portion he wanted, would have given ss. per acre for it. Tou said the Government only got 2s. 6d. 382. But, before that, I remember you said you looked upon it as an improper thing that the Government should have taken 2s. Gd. from one set of persons and refused ss. from another.—l might have said that, but I did not mean that to apply to the whole swamp, but only to that portion I knew for which ss. could be got. 383. Whereabouts did you recommend Mr. Dilworth to buy ?—(Witness described the part on the plan.) 384. At the time you arranged with Mr. Dilworth were you of opinion that you could get 10,000 acres ?—I might. lam not certain. 385. Do you not think so still ?—I could form no opinion as to what I could get. There might be three, four, five, or ten thousand acres. 386. Upon whose advice did he act? —Mine. 387. Was it not at your suggestion that 10,000 acres was named ?—I did not know what could be taken up. 388. Did you not suggest to him 10,000 acres ?—No. If I could get 10,000 acres I would explore it to see what it was like, and report to him. 389. When you said 10,000 acres, were you not speaking from your recollection of the country ? —I daresay I was. 390. that was five years ago ?—Yes; in 1870. 391. How long before that were you upon the ground ?—Some years. 392. When were you last upon the ground?—ln 1865 or 1866. 393. Then you are speaking of the country after an interval of nine years?—l had no plan before me then. 394. Do you know anything of the remaining country?— No. 395. Therefore you are not in a position to say what is the value of the rest of the land ?—No. 396. Or as to its drainability ?—No. I know nothing of it beyond that it will take a great deal of money to drain. 397. I perceive you have stated that you went to the top of Taupiri, for the purpose of obtaining a view of the country ?—No ; to form a trig, station. 398. Was it from there you observed the direction of the flow of the water?—l was always satisfied, from my checking the work which had been surveyed along here, that the water used to come up here. (Witness here described on the plan the places referred to by him.) 399. I understand you to say that from the summit of Taupiri and other ridges you observed a quantity of swamp covered by water, and that those portions further back were covered up to some tea-tree ?—Yes. 400. Was that from Taupiri and the ranges ?—From the hills; I could distinctly see with the telescope. 401. Was it different from the part of the swamp you recommended Mr. Dilworth to buy ?— From much of it. I was of opinion he could get 3,000 or 4,000 acres. 402. The Chairman.'] I want to know a little more definitely about this application. Did you go to the Survey Office with Mr. Dilworth ?—I did. 403. Was your application made for a certain number of acres ?—Not for a certain number of acres. There was a verbal conversation between Mr. Dilworth and myself as to what he would take up. 404. I want to know what was the formal nature of the application : did he say what number of acres ?—I only marked the plan with a pencil.

Mr. E. O'Meara,

12th Oct.. 1875.