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• fall at a place at the head of the Mangawara, opposite Mr. Dilworth's swamp. Lower down, where a fall suddenly takes place, the water is very smooth. 305. Did you make any report to Mr. Dilworth upon that land?—l did. 306. What was your report ?—Mr. Dilworth had made a purchase on the northern side of the river, and he came to me and asked me if I knew anything about this swamp. I explained to him that I had had all the surveys performed under me. He then asked me if I could ascertain what fall there was between this swamp and the bridge at Tauhei. I then mentioned that it was Mr. Breen who had taken the levels, and that he was then working at the Thames. I said that, before I would recommend Mr. Dilworth to have anything to do with the swamp, I would go and see Mr. Breen, and if he said there was sufficient fall to drain the swamp then I would take Mr. Dilworth upon the ground, and he could act upon his own judgment. I saw Mr. Breen, and told him what I wanted. Mr. Dilworth, on the strength of the information I gave him, took up the swamp on this north side. 307. What did Mr. Breen say about the swamp on the other side ? Could it be drained or not ? — We had no reference to the swamp on this side. At this time there was nothing said about this swamp. 308. But you recommended Mr. Dilworth to buy the swamp on this side of the river ? —I did; —a portion only. 309. Did he offer to buy it ?—I believe he did. He gave me a sum of money for selections in this neighbourhood, and I gave it to Mr. Sinclair, who said something about the land not being up for sale. 310. What did you deposit ? —Either a £25 or a £50 cheque. It is three or four years ago. I cannot recall particulars now. 311. And what was the answer ?—So far as I can recollect, Mr. Sinclair said the Government were not disposed to sell any more land on that side of the Mangawara. 1 think at the time the Government had an idea of giving some of this land to the Natives for eel-fishing. 312. Then your offer was refused ? —lt was. 313. In what year was this? —In 1870 —I think it was. 314. Mr. Molleston.~\ Are you aware whether this road which is to join Hamilton or any other point is to run through this swamp ?—I am not. 315. Not by hearsay ? Is it swamp also ? —I cannot say what it is. I have been told by the contractor who is making the road that it was a swamp. 316. What is your opinion of the land? Will it take grass kindly, if drained ?—My opinion is this : Supposing you manage to drain the land itself, after a little time, when the drains are run through the swamp, the land will fall. There is a great deal of what is called fibrous roots and stumps of trees. When the land is drained it will fall, and then be more liable to be flooded by the reflux of water from the Waikato, unless these creeks which run out of the swamp can be sluiced in such a way as to allow the water to come out and the other water not to come in. It might be done by means of a " bevelled sluice." 317. What do you think is the value of that land ?—I am sure Ido not know. 318. You recommended Mr. Dilworth to buy at five shillings per acre down here ?—Not there. 319. Mr. Ormond.~\ Have you been there in times of heavy floods ? —Yes. 320. How high does the Waikato rise in times of flood ?—[No answer appears in the signed copy of evidence.] 321. Give the number of acres, as approximately as you can, covered by water in times of flood ? —Fifteen to twenty thousand acres I might reckon as really bad swamp. 322. The Chairman.'] Affected by the flood waters of the Waikato ?—Not all. The Waikato will affect it nearly as far up as (described on the plan). 323. About this land Mr. Dilworth made application for, what is your description of that land compared with the part of the swamp you have been describing?—lt is of a better nature and drier up here. From my knowledge of it, I recommended him to take a piece. 324. Was this land subject to this overflow of the Waikato ?—Not so much. 325. What quantity of land did you advise him to apply for ?—lt was left to my own discretion when I got upon the ground to select what I thought suitable. The offer of deposit was merely a matter of form, so that I could go and make a selection upon the plan. 326. But you must have applied for so many acres ?—Not in particular. I only drew iv pencil a rough sketch in Mr. Sinclair's office of the land upon the plan there. 327. Was there water standing upon this land at that time ? —Not very much. 328. Was there any dry land upon the banks of that creek ?—Very little. 329. Within the piece you proposed to buy for Mr. Dilworth ? —Very little water on that part. 330. Did you look upon that part as easier of reclamation and improvement than the other part of the swamp ?—That was the reason I advised Mr. Dilworth to buy it. I believe it can be made tolerably dry. 331. How much did you expect to be able to include in the application ? What did you estimate ? —I did not exactly know what was the quantity ; perhaps 3,000 or 4,000 acres, which is a good big piece. It might not exceed 1,000 acres. 332. Major Jackson.] Was it not contemplated at one time to connect the Thames with the Waikato by a canal ?—lt was. From Maungatete to connect with the Waikato. 333. Would there be much cutting?— There would be a good deal of cutting. 334. You state that from the top of Taupiri, when there was a strong flood, you could see the extent of country that was flooded: in your opinion, was there water among the tea-tree ?—There was, no doubt about it; but I could not see it. 335. Was there much difference between the level on Mr. Dilworth's side and the other swamp ? —It is a little higher here (describing on the map). There is a 60-feet fall at the commencement of his swamp and Waikari Lake. 336. From the fact of Mr. Dilworth being able to drain his swamp, does it not show that this swamp could be drained ?—No.

Mr. E. O'Mcara,

2th Oct., 1875,