I.—c.

12

Mr. W.A.Murray

-129. What length of road has been formed in the manner you describe?— Five miles had been formed when I saw it about six months ago. Since then, I believe, four miles more have been, or are being completed. 130. What is the total length required between Hamilton and the head of the navigation of the Piako ? —About seventeen miles. 131. And you believe about nine out of the seventeen have been made? —Yes. 132. Will this be a road of public utility when made ; I mean irrespective of this block of land? —It will be of great public utility when it is properly finished. 133. Mr. Cuthlertson.'] Have you property in that neighbourhood?— Yes, I have property in the Piako, about six miles from the boundary of the Swamp Company's jiroperty. 134. Have you any objection to say when you acquired that property? —I think it was in 1872. 135. Did you see this swamp at the same time r —l did not then pass it closely ?—I went by Cambridge. There was no road through to the Piako available at that time by the swamp. 13G. When you first saw the swamp, did you form any opinion as to its then value ?—I thought it was of no value for small settlers ; but, by the Government undertaking considerable drainage operations, and either making a road or a railway, it could have been utilized, and sold to small settlers. If the Government had done its duty, it would have done this. 137. Do you consider that the swamp was sold too cheap for ss. per acre ?—I do not consider it an unfair value, ss. an acre for the swampy part of it; but the other part would certainly be worth £1. 138. But is the whole block too cheap at ss. an acre ?—I think ss. was a fair value for it. 139. Major Jackson.'] Do you consider the works the Company are carrying on have done anything towards opening up the land in that direction? —I do not think they have done anything as yet, because the road is not available, but I have no doubt they will, when the road is completed. 140. You have stated that when you first passed by this land you were not able to inspect this swamp ; how was that ?—Because there was no road that way. The road I travelled over was one made by the settlers from money received from the Goverment, who added to the subscriptions of the settlers. This road, 1 should state, is twenty-seven miles long, whereas the Swamp Compauy's road will only be seventeen. Therefore the swamp road will possibly save from eight to ten miles. 141. Do you not fancy that will be a very great boon to the district ?—I have said so already, when it is properly finished. 142. You have stated that there are about 6,000 acres of dry land; was this land found to be dry when the swamp was bought ?—I cannot say. 143. Do you not know that discoveries were made after the drainage operations commenced?—l think very little was known about the swamp, except by the Natives. 144. Have not the islands been found since then ; were they known before that ?—I believe they were not known to the general public. 145. You include them in the 6,000 acres?— Yes. 146. Have you been on both sides of the swamp, the north as well as the south?—l have not been on the Taupiri and Maungawara side; I have been on the Hamilton side of it. 147. Do you know what kind of land there is at the north side? —Only from what I have been told, viz. that it is very similar to the land at the other end. 148. At what price could land have been bought there at that time ? —Drummond Hay offered me dry land at 12s. 6d. per acre. 149. All dry and good ? —lt included some flax swamp. 150. That which you acquired was all dry land ?—lt was all good land. 151. Therefore, ss. per acre for this swamp all through would, not be considered so very cheap ?— I paid 12s. for the land I bought. 152. But it passed through two or three hands before you got it ?—Yes. 153. And it was all picked land ?—No. 154. Have you seen the swamp Walker and Douglass bought ? Was it better or worse than this swamp?—l consider this better than that swamp. 155. But this dry land could have been bought from the Government at the time you bought your land ? —lf I had known of it I should have bought it. 156. You believe the Government got a fair price for the land when they received ss. per acre?— Yes. 157. Mr. Bolleston.'] Does this land take grass when it is drained?—l do not think it will take grass unless it is burnt or ploughed. As I have said already, if you dry it too much there is a danger of burning it too much. It is too wet just now for the horses to go on it to plough it. 158. Have you seen any swampy land in the Waikato that has been drained and does take grain ? —Cox and Williamson's is not very successful. 159. Does that uot take wheat and clover well ? —lt has not been successful, in my opinion. Of course, it has in a sort of way as to clover. But, I may say, 1 consider Cox and Williamson's very inferior to this. 160. Do you "know what was paid for it ?—I have heard ss. per acre. 161. From the Government ? —Yes. 162. Mr. Macandrew.] At what seasons of the year did you see this land ?—At different seasons. I have been there in the summer and in the winter. 163. Are there any stock upon this swamp ? Will it carry stock ?—There are a few cattle knocking about, but, of course, nothing like so many as can ultimately be carried, for the cattle are confined now to the margins of the swamp and to the dry land. The land along the margins of the swamp contains the cattle-feed. 164. You say it could have been sold to small settlers. What is your idea of small settlers, and what quantity of land would you give to each? —About a square mile to each. I certainly think that would have been much the best course to have taken. 165. Do you consider it was in the interests of settlement to sell it in one block ?—I think it

6th Oct., 1875