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42. Not to point out or to examine whether any law interfered with the issue qf these moneys ? — I did not know, when Sir Julius Vogel called for the return, what he wanted it for. I only ascertained his object when I took the return to him. The Under Secretary for Immigration, Mr. , was with him at the time, and he said, when I handed him the return, " Oh, then, we shall have plenty; tho sum will be quite large enough." He was referring to the figures, and I believe he reduced his estimate on the strength of that return. 43. And you were not aware that as a matter of law this balance did not exist ? —I was not aware of that. 44. Mr. Johnston.] During the six months in which the two appropriations over-lapped, would the Treasury consider both appropriations to be in force ?—Yes. 45. You state that by an oversight somewhere, there was an error, which resulted in this overexpenditure, and by an oversight you did not charge to the permanent vote something which might have been charged to it?— The Treasury always follows the direction of the Minister of the department. Under the direction of tho spending department Minister something was charged to that year which might have been charged to a previous year. 46. If tho permanent appropriation had been exhausted, as it should have been, the Government ■would still have been in the same position ? —The whole balance of the current appropriation was reserved. That balance was reduced to £51,000. If that expenditure had not been so charged, then the vote contained in the Appropriation Act would not have been expended. The immigration vote of the year 1872-73 was not reserved, but that for 1873-74 was. 47. I understand that the House, in voting certain appropriations for different services of the colony in each session, really votes, in addition to that, the unexpended balance of the previous year? — Not in voting a sum for the service of any year. There is a permanent law (" The Public Revenues Act, 1870"), which enables the unexpired vote of any previous year to be reserved under certain conditions. 48. The amount put on the estimates last year was £275,000, but it was put in a very peculiar manner. It was put £275,000 to cover the current year's expenses and outstanding liabilities. Would not that cut the reserve ground away from you?—We did actually reserve £51,000 last year. 49. Yes, but that is included in the amounts asked for from the House ?—The vote for £275,000 having been passed, the Treasury would certainly have power to expend that sum, plus the amount reserved. 50. Mr. Kelly.] Then in point of fact there was £536,000 available altogether—£4Bl,ooo and £51,000 ?—Yes. 51. What was the total sum appropriated and available for immigration up to 30th June, 1874 ? — The total sum appropriated up to the 30th June, 1874, was £686,808 14s. 9d. Of this sum, £150,000 appropriated by " The Immigration and Public Works Act, 1870," plus £101 35., amount of recoveries to credit, was available for expenditure up to the 31st December, 1871, only. £21,000 appropriated by " The Immigration and Public Works Act, 1871," in repayment to the Provinces of Canterbury, Otago, and Hawke's Bay, of certain sums expended by them on account of immigration, was available to any date. £200,000 appropriated by the same Act, plus £18,014 7s. 3d., amount of recoveries to credit, was available to any date, for defraying the costs incurred in and about the introduction and settlement of immigrants during the two years ending 31st December, 187.3. £45,412 9s. 7d., voted in "The Appropriation Act, 1872," plus £4 lis. Bd., amount of recoveries to credit, was available up to 30th June, 1873, as against expenditure brought to account during the financial year 1872-73, for the services of that year, as set forth in the estimates. £270,396 ss. 2d., voted in " Tho Appropriation Act, 1873," plus £17,614 15s. 6d., amount of recoveries to credit, was available up to the 30th June, 1874, as against expenditure brought to account during the financial year 1873-74, for the services of that year, as set forth in the estimates. 52. What was the expenditure brought to account up to that date ? —The total expenditure for immigration brought to account up to the 30th June, 1874, was £424,069 13s. 3d. ,53. What was further appropriated from that period, and available for expenditure up to the 30th June, 1875 ?—The subsequent appropriation up to the 30th June, 1875, was £481,261 7s. The sums available during the financial year 1874-75 w rere—Ist. Tho unexpended balance of the £221,000 appropriated by " The Immigration and Public Works Act, 1871," was available as to any expenditure incurred prior to the 31st December, 1873. 2nd. The amount of the reserved votes of the year 1873-74, £51,970 7s. 2d., was available as to any expenditure made during that year. 3rd. The sum voted in "The Appropriation Act, 1874," £481,261 75., plus £42,177 4s. 7d., the amount of recoveries brought to credit during the year, was available as to any expenditure made during that or previous years. 54. What sum was brought to account up to the same period ? —The total expenditure brought to account during the period from Ist July, 1874, to 30th June, 1875, was £649,641 6s. 4d. 55. Was any of this expenditure about to be covered by indemnity incurred before 31st December, 1873 ? —The expenditure brought to account during the year 1874-75 included payments made by the Agent-General in London, from April 1874. These and subsequent payments included in the account of 1874-75 were made in respect of expenses which, as I am informed by the Immigration Department, were incurred in conformity with instructions sent Home prior to December 1b73; and, inasmuch as any part of the whole sum charged during the year may be regarded as tho cause of the excess, this question may, I think, be answered in the affirmative. 56. Is there any officer of the Treasury whose duty it is to make himself acquainted with the balances available for expenditure under the appropriations of Parliament ? —That is a function of the Audit Department, and not the duty of any officer of the Treasury. 57. Sir F. L>. Bell.] In reply to Mr. Johnston, you stated that if certain sums which might have been charged back had been so charged back, the Treasury would have been able to make a reserve in respect of the appropriations of 1873-74, not of £50,000 only, but of a sum probably not less in tho whole than £150,000 ; do I understand you rightly ? —Yes, speaking roughly. What I mean by the former answer was, that we should have been able to make a reserve of a very much larger sum than we did. 58. Then, supposing that in that way a reserve of £150,000 had been made, would the present difficulty have arisen at all ? —No.

Mr. Batlcin. 2nd Aug., 1875.