A.—Ko. 12,

12

PAPEES RELATIVE TO MR. FIRTH'S

speak plainly to you, but I shall not speak in anger, and therefore you must not be offended with what lam going to say. lam a man who speak right out, and I often offend the Pakehas by speaking out what I think should be said, openly. Whatever may be said of me, it cannot be said that lam afraid to express my own convictions. William Thompson said I was a man who spoke out my thoughts, and I mean to speak straight out now. Manuwhiri: Talk on. Mr. Firth: Well, if you mean by our giving back the land that you expect the Government to give back the whole of Waikato, I tell you that is a thing which will never be agreed to. AVith regard to giving portions of land to people who have none, I know that has always been the intention of the Government, and their intentions are unchanged. If peace be established I believe the Government will agree to give portions of the Waikato. Manuwhiri: We have got it already ; the whole of it has been given back. Mr. Davis : According to Manuhiri this giving up of the Waikato has already preceded what you are now talking about, so that the actual giving up comes before this proposition to give. Mr. Firth: When? Manuwhiri: In the letter of the 6th March. Mr. Davis : Are you quite sure of that ? Manuwhiri: Quite sure. Mr. Firth : If Sir William Martin, the writer of that letter, has told you the Government will give you the whole of the Waikato back, he has done so without authority, and it will not be acceded to. Manuwhiri: According to your idea the canoe will be split in two. If a channel were cut from Ngaruawahia to the coast on the other side, that would be breaking up the canoe, but the waters of the Waikato still flow into the sea on this side in their old course. The letter of the 6th March says that the canoe is not to be split up. Mr. Davis: Tour words come clothed in wrappers, for the letter of the Gth March says the land is given up. Manuwhiri: How can I help it ? It is a voluntary act on the part of the Pakehas to give up Waikato. Mr. Firth : I have spoken to Sir William Martin about these matters, but he never told me that he proposed to give the Waikato back. Manuwhiri: Here it is, I have it. Mr. Firth : You have heard what I have to say about these things. Look at these children there growing up in hatred of the Pakehas, while on the other hand the Pakeha children are growing up in hatred of the Maori. When these children grow up to be men there will not be that chance of making peace which we now have ; for you, Manuwhiri, are my friend, and we have the remembrance of good deeds done one to another in the days that are passed. I now stretch out my hand to you, and 1 ask you to grasp it before it be too late. Do not throw my hand scornfully from you. Let this good work be our work. Kemember this word, " Whatsoever thine hand findcth to do, do it with all thy might." Whitiora: Oh friends, some of Mr. Firth's words are good. Friend Charles Davis, some of Mr. Firth's words are good, good, good, very good—some of them. That part is very good wherein he says he extends his hand to Manuwhiri, the meaning of which is the expressions he has given utterance to. Mr. Firth is not a man who conceals his thoughts; he speaks right out. Be strong, Mr. Firth, be strong with the Government, and if you be strong then I shall know that the day is ours (i.e., that we have established peace). Tou are plain, you speak out boldly, and I like your mode of speaking. Don't you say one thing here, and another down below (at Auckland). (To Mr. Davis) Mr. Firth'a word is good. He tells us that his arm was strong formerly in the cause of war, but that now it is weak in that cause (i.e., he has no desire to lift his arm to fight). According to the opinions of you Pakehas, these killings you speak of were murders, but we say they are not. This would be a murder, if I were to kill you now that you have come here on a friendly visit; or if 1 were to kill Mr. Firth, that would bo a murder. If 1 were to say to-day in a friendly spirit, " Come round by this path," intending evil while professing friendship, if I took you out of the safe path into that of danger and you were killed, that would be a foul murder. And here are your foul murders: —General Cameron told us to send our women and children to Eangiaowhia, where they should remain unmolested ; but he went away from Paterangi with his soldiers after them, and the women and children were killed and some of them burnt in the houses. You did not go to fight the men ; you left them and went away to fight with the women and little children. These things you conceal because they are faults on your side, but anything on our side you set down against us, and open your mouths wide to proclaim it. That deed of yours was a foul murder, and yet there is nobody to proclaim it. Not only in this island are the footprints of your evil deeds visible, but in every island whereon you had touched. But now you come here and talk to us of peace, and I like your words well, for they come straight from the heart. Be you strong, Josiah, to continue your work, and if you are strong to carry it out I shall also bo willing, and then the sun will shine upon us. Manuwhiri: Formerly, Mr. Firth, when you came up I did not know you, and I said to you, "Go back." I had heard that you had been strong in lifting up your arm in the cause of war. I afterwards heard that yon had lifted up your arm for peace, and 1 was pleased at that word. I was determined to try you further, but when you came this time I stretched out my hand to you. Te Aroha (to Mr. Davis) : Charles, you have Pukaki and Ihaka, and you and I have the post in keeping at JMangatawhiri. Mr. Davis : I know this. You are my old friend, and you and I have thoughts in keeping. Te Aroha: Yes, you know them. Manuwhiri: Ido not go round and round. I come straight on. Mr. Firth (i.e., the Europeans) has done nothing. All that has been done has been accomplished by me. I have issued a proclamation about peace. Mr. Firth : I have listened to the words of Whitiora, and I like some of them well. Te Aroha says that Jehovah lives. We all know that He lives, and that He said in the olden time, " Let there be peace on earth, and good-will amongst men." That work of peace is our work to-day. The ancient saying is, " Blessed are the peacemakers." Now we must understand each other. My word is this—