EDUCATIONAL RESERVES.

5

A.—No. sa.

the flock was derived, to a great extent, from sheep taken on terms for the benefit of the property. The sales of wool appear in the accounts. Prom 1860 to the present time, the cattle referred to in my former evidence had the use of 40 acres of the paddocks at the homestead of the estate, principally milking cows. Another block of about 50 acres has been used for the cattle during the last two years. There is also an enclosure of scrub and bush, containing about 300 or 400 acres (which is unfit for depasturing sheep), into which cattle wore turned, whose services in breaking down the bush and scrub, and extending the grass, greatly benefited the property. The sheep on the estate have had the use, in addition, of 200 acres of grass land of a superior character, not belonging to the estate, during the same period that the cattle have been upon the bush laud referred to. When I first occupied (in 1863) the lands contained in the grants referred to —No. 12, Beg. xiv. ; .No. 1,050, Reg. H.7—they only carried 1,000 sheep, but they now carry 3,000, and keep tliein in a better condition. Mr. Stokes, one of the Trustees, has or had the plans showing the exchanges made, and their boundaries. The Eev. S. Williams —(21th April, ISO 9) —further examined: I wish to correct a statement in my evidence given on the 16th inst. The portion to which I refer is as follows : —" The balance is lessening, and if no further fall in the prices of stock and wool should take place, I hope by the end of the present current year there will be little or no balance against the estate." Since giving that evidence I have ascertained that prices are so very low that it would be wrong to hold out such an expectation. The amount of the balance will entirely depend on the prices to be realized by sale of the wool and surplus stock. The promise of Sir George Grey, mentioned in the evidence of TeWaaka Eowharewha, was, not that he would give 500 sheep but that he would give £500 iv money to be laid out in sheep. The moneys paid to me iv respect of this promise are credited, and the application of them shown in the accounts appended to Mr. Bussell's report before referred to. Sheep at the time these sums were received were at a price of thirty-seven shillings and sixpence to two guineas. I paid thirty-seven shillings and sixpence for the sheep I bought. Mr. Tatham occupies the block of land originally leased to Mr. Pharazyn, and is, I believe, the assignee of his lease. The term for which this property was let is now terminated, and the Trustees are liable to pay the £200 stipulated for improvements. It is under consideration by the Trustees to endeavour to effect an arrangement with the occupier, whereby, in consideration of sinking the claim to the £200, he might have an extended term, or if the Trustees should pay the £200, that he would continue in occupation at an improved rent. The quantity of 900 acres mentioned in my evidence (15th April) as having been prepared by burning, and surface sown, includes a portion of the bush enclosure. Mr. Purvis Russell —(19th April, 1569) —examined (Copies of Crown Grants recorded—No. 4, Beg. xiv.; No. 5, Eeg. xiv.; No. 12, Beg. xiv. ; No. 1,650, Beg. H. 7; produced) :My name is Thomas Purvis Bussell. I reside at Waipukurau, and am a sheep farmer. I have known the property generally known as the Te Aute College or School estate, comprising about 7,000 acres, from the year 1553. When I first travelled through it it was almost impenetrable fern, with small clumps of bush. For the whole estate upon a lease for fourteen years you could not have obtained a rental of more than £10 a year. Before' any benefit could be derived from it, considerable outlay must be incurred in grassing it, which has been done. Its size was against its realizing a large rent. It was surrounded by the different runs there, and possessed no natural boundaries, so that the expense of shepherding would be great. It was off the main line to Napier, and the difficulty of carriage of produce to Napier, partly by canoe and partly by land, was very great. I should think the carriage of wool must have cost Mr. Bobert Pharazyn, who occupied part of the land, from lid. to 2d. per pound. Ido not know the extent of fencing nor quantity of land, but can state generally that the estate has been greatly improved, and rendered valuable for occupation. As near as I can recollect, the road was commenced about 1859, running through part of the Te Aute estate. This road caused a gradual reduction in the cost of carriage of from £10 to £2 10s. per ton. I would not like to stock the property as it now stands with more than 5,000 or 6,000 sheep, which would yield no higher rental than from £600 to £650 per annum. Having regard to the nature and value of the improvements, and the flock of sheep stated by the Bey. Samuel Williams, in his evidence, to belong to the estate, and to the amount of debt stated in his evidence to be a charge upon the estate, I am of opinion that the estate has greatly benefited by the occupation. Mr. Samuel Locke —(24th April, 1869) —being duly sworn, states: My name is Samuel Locke, and I reside at Napier. lam a surveyor by profession. I have resided in the Province of Hawke's Bay about ten years. I have been accustomed during that time to the examination and valuation of land. (Copies of Crown Grants No. 4, Beg. xiv.; No. 5, Beg. xiv.; No. 12, Beg. xiv. ; and No. 1,650, Beg. H. 7, produced.) I know the land comprised in the Crown Grants of which the produced papers are copies. On Monday evening and Tuesday morning, the 19th and 20th instant, I examined the land. I found the fences and buildings in very good order. There is on No. 12, Beg. xiv., a six or sevenroomed house, in which the Bey. S. Williams resides; a detached kitchen and other outbuildings, an overseer's house of two rooms, another small house in which the cook lives, and in which the men take their meals ; a stable to accommodate five horses, with coach-house under the same roof; a very good wool-shed, sufficient to accommodate twelve shearers. There is also a stockyard, and sheep-pens in yard, proportioned to the size of the wool-shed; and on another part of the estate a dwelling-house formerly occupied by Mr. Pharazyn, since by Mr. G. S. Cooper, and now sub-let to a Mr. Tatham—l do not know upon what terms. There is a small detached building connected with this, and some enclosed paddocks let with the house, containing, I should judge, about 30 acres, one of which is ploughed. I found the land comprised in grant referred to as No. 12, Beg. xiv., and part of land in No. 5, Beg. xiv., fenced on all sides except about one mile and a half of irregular boundary, whereto a swamp serves as a fence. The fencing was of good wire fencing. About 1,200 acres of this are divided into eight or nine paddocks by similar wire fencing and a few chains of white thorn fencing. One of the paddocks contains about 600 acres, the residue is in paddocks of various sizes. Nearly all this land in the paddocks is well down in grass, mostly surface-sown, but well laid down. The rest of the land in No. 5, Beg. xiv., and No. 12, Beg. xiv., is enclosed in one paddock (except the portion leased to Mr. Tatham). About 1,000 acres of that is very hilly, and may almost be called useless —very poor 2