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fencing the land against cattle, &c. We then said let the land be withheld. We (Waikato) began it, and others joined. We saw that the elder brother was quarrelling with the younger ; aud so one man was appointed to suppress fighting, and stop the blood. Land was bought at Taranaki : we heard it was bought improperly, and presently disturbance arose about it. We held two ruuangas to consider it, in the course of which we heard that Tarnnaki ■was destroyed. Afterwards came news about the Ngatiruanui, and here we were perplexed. We had not heard that the Pakeha was fighting at Taranaki until the soldiers had gone aboard the ships : then we heard. Now this offence was from the Pakeha : hence we said, we are strangers to one another. This is our thought; we are divided, you on one side, and we on the other. Three things we worked at after you left us ; the gospel, the king, and the flag. We did not know it was wrong till after it was set up ; then, for the first time, we knew it was considered wrong. I now say, work gently. Enough about that. This is another thing, about the roads. Formerly you commanded them, and they have been withheld by us. The roads are not simply for fetching food from a man's farm ; throughout the island, it is this which creates fear. At Taranaki, the road being there, your guns reached the pa. This is our fear, lest that strange cart (gun carriage), the cart of terror, should travel on it. But for this fear, roads would have been allowed long ago. Enough of that. Now, it was we (Waikato) who established the king. I have not heard that the roads are stopped up ; the great road of the Waikato river is not stopped, the road of the Waipa river is not stopped, the Pakehas and the Maories are travelling upon them ; the road of the Union Jack alone is closed. The words of Potatau, and yours, are still held : we adhere to the advice of Potatau, " Do not do anything, do not fight, do not be angry with the Pakeha, but be kind to him." Waikato adheres to these words. Our runangas are similar to your own, some are good and some are bad. At the present time, the only thing we will look at is goodness, that it may be joined and made fast. If we rise up, against you, what would be the result? If you rise up against us, what would be the result? Formerly we, the Natives, were separate tribes : but now if I go to the other end of the island, it is still I (we are now one people). Let the error, if any, be sought out of our conversation during this day. His Excellency: If any tribe refuse to have your king, will you attack them? Tipene: I have not yet heard of the fear of any tribe within this island. His Excallency: Until you give me a fair answer to that question, I shall think you refuse mj words of peace. Tipene: This is my reply. I do not know that some are outside (of the king). Let me hear it, and then for the first time shall I say, we (Maories) are a divided people. But we will not make them afraid (attack them). His Excellency: If any tribe sells land to us (Europeans) will you attack it? Tipene: We will not consent: we and our land are with the king: we shall, therefore, withhold it, for we have received his pledge (pauna). His Excellency: If the man wishing to sell his land has not pledged it to the king, will you attack him? Tipene: No, he would be a stranger to us. His Excellency: But if he had, and afterwards altered his mind? Tipene: The land will be withheld, because he will have been imposing upon us. His Excellency: What, by force? Tipene: No, we will not strike (first); but if he sees us withholding it, and attacks us, then we shall strike. His Excellency: No, he will not do that. Tipene: I am thinking of his deceit to us. If you hear that we hold that land (in trust), do not buy it. His Excellency: What do you mean by that? Tipene: If a man has given us (the king) his land (to withhold), and he says, Return me my laud, that I may sell it for the purpose of acquiring other property, then we shall quarrel. His Excellency: I have nothing to do between you aud the m,an who agreed to give you his land. Tipene: Do not consider me, as a man, but consider the word. His Excellency: If you were my servant and wished to leave me, should you be always bound? Tipene: In my opinion, what I say is right; it is not we who say that we will go as men for him, it is he who comes to us. His Excellency: What are you going to do to a man who wishes to sell his land? Tipene: We withhold it for his own use. He will not be allowed to sell his land: but we shall not assail and kill him; we shall not do as you Pakehas do. Te Teira's land was held back by Te JJangitaake: it was held, it was continued to be held, and you went and made war. O Governor, I also wish to speak about the Ngatiruanui. We have heard of the error of Ngatiruanui in stopping up the road against the Pakehas. If it were said, that we (Waikato) the cause of it, I should have to think about that when I went home. I have only just heard that the Bishop was injured (stopped, by the Taranakis), and I shall, say to them, Let the Pakehas pass. His Excellency: How about the stolen property, the cattle and horses? Tipene: My name for that is I1 spoils of war" (or "spoils lawfully taken in war.") His Kxcellency: How about the land of the Europeans on which the Maories have gone? Tipene: Is there no Maori land at Waitara in possession of ihe Pakeha? His Excellency: What land do you mean? Doyou mean the block that was fought about? Tipene: I enquire of you, is there no Maori laud at Waitara in the Pakeha's possession? His Excellency: What laud do you mean? Tipene: Waitara.

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