MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN

T. H. Smith, Esq, 8 Oct. 1860.

two parties; one party (the King party) threatened to turn off and drive away those, who did not join them. The other party (the Queen's) proposed to prevent the erection of the Maori King's flagstaff' by force. I find these facts recorded in Mr. Fenton's Journal, They (the Queen's party) proposed to build a house for Mr. Fenton upon the very place (Ngaruawahia) where the Maori flag was erected. I mention this to show that the Natives identified Mr. Fenton, and through him the Government with the Anti-Maori King party as a party. 381. Mr. Forsaith.] You have spoken of Tamati Ngapora as holding the opinion that the pre 7 the Magistrate at Waikato was doing harm: was it not Tamati Ngapora that especially distinguished himself by the frequency of his application for the introduction of law into the Waikato district?—l do not recollect his doing so. 382. Is there not a letter of his to the late Governor on this subject published in the Blue Book? —Yes, I think there is. 383. Are you aware whether Tamati Ngapora acquainted himself with Mr. Fenton's proceeding by actual observation at Waikato?—l have no doubt he did. 384. Are you aware whether he attended at such times at any of the places at which Mr. Fenton held his Court?—No, I cannot say whether he did. 385. How far is Mangere from Waikato?—About a day's journey. 386. During Mr. Fenton's appointment at Waikato, Tamati Ngapora resided at Mangere ?—He did. JlB7. Mr. Domett.] From your knowledge of the Natives generally, would you suppose there was any insurmountable difficulty in introducing Civil Institutions among them?—l think not. 388. Mr. Heale.] Would you consider this formation of a party in opposition to those who wished for and joined Civil Institutions to be an insurmountable obstacle?—No, I should not; it would be a matter calling for greater prudence on the part of those entrusted with the introduction of those institutions. 389. Then you consider the formation, or rather separation, of the parties in Waikato, not to have been a necessary reason for abandoning the attempt made by Mr. Fenton?—l think the separation into parties was the first indication of a state of things existing in the Waikato district which made it necessary to use very great caution in proceeding with the undertaking. Had the single fact of there being two parties in the district stood alone, I should not have said that that was a sufficient cause for abandoning the attempt. 390. Then you consider there was some further danger beyond the existence of the two parties? —1 do. 391. Will you state what it was?—lt was the danger that the proceedings of the Queen's party would ultimately bring them into collision with the opposite party. 392. Do I clearlyjimderstand that the principles of the King party had taken root in the Upper Waikato before Mr. Fenton was appointed? —I think they had not taken that definite shape which they afterwards took. 393. In your opinion would any movement on the part of the Government, calculated to supply the want of Civil Government, long felt and acknowledged by the Natives, have necessarily tended to stimulate into more definite action that party which had taken the initiative in the endeavour to supply that want without Government aid?—l think it quite possible that any movement on the part of Government mayjiaye had that tendency, but not necessarily so. 394. Do you not think it would be very desirable to aid the party desiring to support law and order in overcoming the opposition by legitimate and peaceful means ?—There can be but one answer to this; it would be desirable to aid them to do so by peaceable and legitimate means. 395. Did the Queen's party attempt to overcome opposition by any other than peaceable and legitimate means? —I am not aware that they did. 396. Do you not consider the withdrawal of Mr. Fenton was a great blow and discouragement to the Queen's party? —I think it was; but I also think the Government had to choose between two evils, and chose the less. 397. What was that other evil?— The Natives coming into collision between themselves, and the Government becoming thereby involved. 398. Do you apprehend that he Queen party might have made an aggression on the King party, or vice versa? — Either one or the other. 399. At the time of Mr. Fenton's withdrawal, had matters approached that point of danger?— I think so; there were indications that it was approaching at all events. 400. Are you aware that many of the Queen's party, since Mr. Fenton's withdrawal, have gone over to the King party? —I believe some of them have. 401. Have the remainder maintained any Queen's party there?—l believe the distinction to be very much less marked than before. 402. Then practically the danger of collision has been arrested by abandoning the field to the King party?—No, Ido not think so. The Government has not wished to recognise the existence of the two parties, as parties, or to identify itself with either. 403. But you recognise the fact that there was a party which supported Mr. Fenton's proceedings, and that it became more or less opposed to that party which has since been developed into tins King party? —Yes. 404. Was it in apprehension that these two parties would come into collision that Mr. Fenton was withdrawn?— That formed a ground for considering it advisable that he should be withdrawn. 405. Chairman.] Did you consider, in your opinion, that the withdrawal was advisable?— I did. 406. Did you tender that opinion to the Governor?—l am not aware that I did so officially; I think I have expressed such an opinion to him.

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