EVIDENCE TAKEN IN SELECT COMMITTEE ON

them. They had this Bill before them; their opinion seemed unanimous that anything was better than the present state of things. 40. Is the state of the Natives generally becoming disorganized?— Not politically, but socially. I think there is a growing state of disorganization; Christianity is losing its hold upon them: it held them long, and was the means of doing them good. The old Chiefs are losing their influence; we have not supplied anything in their place. 41. Mr. Williamson.] In general terms, are complaints more frequent now from out-settlers than heretofore?—l cannot say; everybody who travels has complaints of the state of the Natives. It is worse than it has been. 42. There is a clause in the Bill to enable Officers of Customs, &c , to search vessels, and stop carts, and to remain on board vessels, or in charge of goods for that purpose, if offences under the operation of the proposed Act was to cause tribes great injury, &c, would they be revenged?—l think the probabilities are that the police would secure the offenders; the chances are that if they stayed in Auckland they would be captured. Mr. Fenton then withdrew. Monday, July 28th, 1856. Thomas Beckham, Esq., M.H.R., and Resident Magistrate of Auckland, examined 1. You are a Magistrate, I believe?—-I am Resident Magistrate of Auckland. 2. How long have you been in New Zealand?— Upwards of 16 years in Auckland and Bay of Islands, acting a3 Police and Resident Magistrate. 3. During that time you have had great experience of Natives? —Yes, in the administration of justice amongst the Natives, considerable. 4. Were you in Kororareka when it was sacked and burnt by the Natives?—l was. 5. Will you state what strikes you as practical difficulties in enforcing the law in Native eases?— There are difficulties in executing warrants in the interior, but the Natives invariably attend to summonses. 6ls that the only difficulty you have?—l am not aware of any other. 7. Is there any difficulty in dealing with Native Offenders when they come within the limits of settlements?—l find no difficulty; there is no more disposition on the part of Natives than Europeans to evade the law within the limits of the town; there are sometimes difficulties, they render the law partially inoperative in such cases. 8. Do you mean that you cannot enforce a warrant in the Province?—l should not hesitate to enforce the law within a short distance of town—the radius of settlements, say a few miles. I should never attempt to execute process unless I felt an absolute certainty that it could be enforced I should not feel certain beyond the limits. I have ventured when necessary to have recourse to the Chiefs of the tribe to whom they belong to deliver up the Offenders. I may quote oneinstance:—a case of larceny took place at Mr. Sutton's house, 30 or 40 miles hence; the Government applied to the Chiefs and the Offenders were given up. 9. Are you aware of any case where offenders have been refused to be given up?—l cannot call to mind any unless in reference to the gunpowder, in which I believe the Chiefs have refused to give up the Offenders. 10. If the Chiefs refused to give up the Offenders, how would you proceed?— Then the point to be considered would be whether it would be prudent to employ sufficient force to enforce the law, or to allow the case to stand over till the parties could be apprehended, when within the limits of the settlements, without disturbing the peace of the country. The latter course is the one which I have adopted. I have known several cases in which parties have escaped and been subsequently captured and punished. I recollect one instance in which a warrant was issued to apprehend a Native. The Chief of his tribe, on ascertaining that fact, afterwards gave him up. That was about two years ago. 11. Do you think that allowing offences to remain unpunished for a length of time has any injurious effect on the Natives, and as teaching them to disregard the law?—l am scarcely prepared to say that it would do so. To attempt and fail would; but when you simply issue a warrant, and allow it to remain over for capturing the offending party, I am not prepared to say it would. 12. You are aware of the Kawau powder robbery; are your aware of any steps taken to punish the Offenders?—No warrant has been issued. 13. If, in such a case, an application for a warrant was made to apprehend the Offender, would you issue it and put it in force?—l should have issued the warrant, but allowed it to remain till there was an opportunity of capturing the Offenders within the limits of the town. I should not attempt to enforce them in other districts with the means at my disposal. lam not sure if my information be correct, that if there had been a steam vessel—say the Wonga Wonga, for example —with a sufficient armed force, and the Natives' vessels had been laying at Coromandel with the powder, they might have been captured without risk, and that would have had a very salutary effect on the Native mind. 14. Under what law would you have proceeded?—l think it might have been done under the " Arms Importation" and " Arms Ordinance." 15. Do you think it would have a salutary effect, if there were a power of seizing vessels with property of the Offenders generally?—l rather am inclined to think that would induce the Natives to retaliate by committing outrages on the neighbouring settlers. 16. Do you not think that feeling would apply generally in the case of seizing the powder?—l question whether the feeling would be the same in general.

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