HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXII, Issue 2568, 7 September 1867, Page 5

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 5. The Speaker took the Chair at two o'clock. AKAItOA ELECTORAL KOLL. MrHAUGHITON moved that a, Selpct Committee, with powcv lo rviJi for'pjperaand persona, bo appointed to inquire inlo the circumstances connected wit.h tin* alleged i\iti«mt.ion of (ho Electoral Rolls of fcho Alcarou dislrict for 18G5-G, after the same bud been sullied by I ho Kevising OlfiVer ; such Committee to oonMst of the Hon. J. C. Kichmond, Mr Paterson, Mr l\>Us, Mr O'Rorke, Mr Ormond, Mr Bunny, iind iho Mover. To report on the 17th in»l. He di.l not wish to throw any imputation upon the olHcer engaged in making up the, rolls, but us nn impression had got übroud that a name had oeen inserted in iho eleeloval roll after it was made up, and such a practice would be fniimht wilii tlic most, dangerous consequences, it would be better it' Iho matter t woro cleared up. The Hon. J. HALL snid Hie Grovernment would not object to the appointment of a C'oinmilfeo, but rJid not believe thuLJjio roll had been interfered with. The motion was agreed to. STANDING OUDEUS OX PUIVATB HILLS COMMITTEE. On tlie motion of Mr Tu.wkhs, the Standing Orders on Private Bills Com.nii'eo were granlcd ten days extension of lime for bringing up their report. • , TIMAItr AND OLADSIMN'R PETITION., On thr molion of Mr Vox, tlie petition of the inhabitants of Timaru and Gladstone was ordered to ho pri tiled. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. On the motion of Mr Caaiimwcll, leave of absence for (.ho reinain>!cr of tlio aession was granted to Mr Dillon Hell. EDUCATIONAL KKSKHVKS COMMITTEE. Tho Hon. J 0. lIICITMOXD moved that, Mr Ludlnm be appointed to the Select Coiiimitloe on ! Educational Ki'serven, which waa agreed to. VINANCF. COMMITTEE. On the niotion of Mr Caklkton, Mr Dillon Bell was discharged from the Finance Committee, ! and Mr Tancred appointed thereto. ' ADDRESS TO TUB GOVERNOR. ! Tho, COLON [A-Tj SKORKI'ARV yi -\v,J ih., .ldoption ofun acldresstohis.lCt^.,.] 1 ,;,,,.^-;,., j,;,.,,,.,,^. Grey, vclativu to hu re»'- 'i . „ . ,. <V

of the colony. It would not bo becoming for hi: to criticise minutely the mode in which his E: celle'ney was about to bo removed from tl Government, as they had no. right to interfei with her Majesty's Ministry exercising their rigl of changing the Governor of the colony j but tl: way in which his Excellency had refuted tli charges brought figuinsl the colony, rendered a expression of the sentiments of the Legislatui upon the manner in which his Excellency ha administered tho Government of the colony ac visable. He desired to express the admiration c the Government for the course his Excollenc had taken in the matter. Mr TRAVERS would second the motion, bi thought the address might be advantageous] shortened. All that tho House desired to oxpres might be put into three or four paragraphs. H should alao like to see it couched in language ( which the House would not bo ashamod ; an would propose that certain alterations bo made. Tho SPEAKER here stated that tho hor member could not move amendments, if h seconded the address. Mr TK AVERS would then not second. th motion. Mr .T. O'NEILL would, in that case, secom tho address. He had seen many Governors o New Zealand, but had never met with one of si much largeness of mind and goodness of heart a Sir George Grey, whose kindness to the ol< settlers could never be forgotten. He wishe< that tho House could give effect to an oldEasten adage, " May he always bo happy, and live, i hundred and twenty years." Me TR-V.VERS fchon stated the amendment he proposed to make. Tho address* as it stood contained controversial matter, and would pro bably not meet with tho unanimous approval o the House, whie.h it was desirable that an addresi of this kind should do. The COLONIAL SECRET ABY said thai unless the hon. member had received some in structions that his amended address would b< unanimously approved of by tho House, ii would fail of its proposed object. Tho amended address would express no opinion upon th« subject which it was very desirable for the House to express an opinion upon ; and he did not believe that members would like to miss the opportunity of doing so. Tho Government had no objection to accept verbal amendments ; but would take tho sense of tho Houso aa to whether it desired to pass a merely complimentary address. Mr TRAVERS said he would ask leave to withdraw his amendment. Mr A. S. ATKINSON objected to leave being given. The Colonial Secretary appeared to have missed the real point to be sought for in an address of this kind — that it should be unanimously adopted by the Hoase. ■ The address ous;ht therefore to contain no more than what the House, could unanimously assent to. Unless the passing <=>f nn address were to bo a mere matter of form, ho oould not vote for this address, as he did not agreo with aomo parts of it, especially tho second paragraph. Mr JOLLIE thought an addreßS ought to bo presented to his Excellency on the eve of his departure from the colony : but it was premature to present one now. As, however, one had beon brought before the House, he would not oppose it. It was an ungracious thing to object to addresses, whie.h were alsvays drawn up with difficulty ; and although the ono before tho House might be improved, ho should be guided by tho feeling of the House in the way ho voted on the amendment. Mr HI3APHY saw nothing in the address which he could not conscientiously assent to. After ho had hoard the hon. member for Christ-, church say there were grammatical .maccurnoiea in the address, he was sorry to find that that hon. member could point out nothing more than a sort of rhyming ji-ngle in the lust paragraph. Mr BUNNY said tho value of an address of this kind consisted in the unanimity with which it was passed ; and as there was a difference of opinion as t>* tho wisdom of tho Governor's measures fov the government of.the colony, every member could not support the address as it stood, lie approved of and should vote for the amended address . , Mr BOBLASE differed from tho last speaker as to the value the Governor would sot upon a more complimentary address; he believed his Kxcelleney would attach much greater value to an intelligent expression of opinion from the House on the subject of his recall. Mr ORMOND would like the Government to tnke the addrewa back and retnodol it ; or perhaps it would be boMor to refer it to a Select Committee. He did not like Iho amended address, as it expressed no opinion upon the very subject a'mut which the colony was bound to express an opinion. Tho COLONIAL SECRETARY snid the Govornment had no objection to post poning the consideration of the address, (hear, ho:ir) ; but he thought, it would have been better had, before tho debate camo on, those hon members who objected to the address informed tho Government of their views. Mr BALL moved the adjournment of tho debate until Friday, which was agreed to. COMMTtt'KE OP SCPPLI' — ADJOURNED DEBATE. The adjourned debate on Mr Vogel's amendment to tho motion for going into Committee of Supply was resumed. Mr'.J. WILLIAMSON had intended to have voted for going into Committee of Supply, and to have explained his reasons for doing so ; but as a desire had been expressed that a statement, of the position of Auckland should be laid before the House, he would, in preference, endeavor to m:ike one. It would bo the more useful to do co, as some members did not seem to bo eonvincecl of tho truth of the statements that had been made with regard to that province. In 1863, Mr R. Graham, 'who was Superintendent of Auckland, W'ip encouraged to ask his Council to raise a loan of £500 000, toexecutc public works which were urgently required, and this they ugrecd to do. The works required were of no ordinary kind. The judges of tho Supremo Court had constantly complained of the want of accommodation afforded to them, and a court house was urgently required ; ■a lunatic asylum, a gaol, a post office, and it custom house, were also' absolutely necessary. These might perhaps he regarded as colonial works, but as tho. colony did not execute them, the province •was obliged to do so immigration had to be provided for ;as vvoll as funds for waterworks. It was considered highly desirable- that a railway should be -made bef-w.vn Auckland wild Manukau, but, there wore no funds to construct it. Other works hurl to be done, for which, however, the ordinary funds of tho province were quite, insufficient.. It; was under these circumstances that the Superintendent was led to ra ; so a loan. No doubt prudaneo might have told. those who had the management of provincial affairs, t hat there illicit be a dilHeult/v in providing for the interest and sinking funds of tho loan; but, if any blame were to bo attached to them, the General' Government must share it,, as they had authorised the loan. Mr Williamson t.ben explained how tho loan had j been spent, When Mr Whit.ikcr entered upon the clutica of thu olliee of Superintendent., ho in ide a thorough examination of tho provincial accounts, and laid the result, before his Provincial Council. (Mr Williamson then read soino extracts from Mr Whitaker's speech, to show the financial state of Auckland at, that timo.) Everything was then done to kouj) Iho expenditure down; and every exertion made to put Auckland in a position to carry on it? aff.ira until a brighter day should dawn for it. In 18(36, Mr Whit ulcer took equal pains to keep the Provincial Council in funned of tho exact financial state of the prov; Mcc; and the Estimates for this year were ;j -in; ■••({ w t.ii i!io strictest attention to economy. • i.h- .linn, -ire.nl lonian then explained Lho fttmnoial »v'n;!:h li;ul hoen effected iv the province

of Auckland for the current financial year. 1 •whole saving that could be effected, iiowov upon the year was, £2172 10s. The estimai i revenue of the province for March quarter 1 \ was £18,325 ; the actual receipts were oi £9670 ; and the consequence was, that the in rest on the loan had to be paid out of t balance of the loan itself. Having stated the ci as it really was, the representatives of Auckla had a right to ask how those things had be brought about. A class of .persons had been : troducod into the province wliieh fclie provii: would liavonßver allowed to be introduced hac j had its own way. Many of the military settli had sold their land and gone away ; and the pi vinee had iierer derived any benoflfc from thoi on the contrary, the province had been put great extra expense for police and gaols, and h also hud to relieve destitute women and childn in consequence of the introduction of those s tiers. Those i settlers were introduced solely the wish o( the colony ; and the allocated de was properly a colonial charge. He repudiat the charge that, the votes of the Auckland mci bcrs had been, bought j they believed that a fcir had' come for an adjustment of accounts, and th approved of. the. Government scheme, because was the. bead thut could bo devised under the ci cuuistancea. 'Th.o proyinccs had a right to /satisfied.. with: the .arrangements that had be* made ; and Auckland hailed them as just at equitable.. -Auckland had claims upon the coloi which did not seem to ; be. generally understeo He boliev.cd that, had he known then what 1 did now, ho would not have voted for the fina cial resolutions of 1856 ; but having voted fi that arrangement, he would abide by it. Wo the Southern members now to visit Aucklan and sec tho destitution and misery, that has bet caused by the war, they would acknowledge tl province had claims upou them for considoratic on that account. Something had been said aboi the breaking of a solemn compact ; but many po sons were induced to settle in Auckland from tl fact that the Seat of Government had been fixe thero by tho Imperial Government ; and the pri vinco had been deeply injured by tho action i that House in romoving the Seat ot Governmon This whs one of the mild considerations whit might be taken into account in considering tl state. of Auckland. The Colonial Treasurer an other membors had spoken of the provinces i though they were appendages of the colony ; bi of what wus tho colony composed but provinces Where was the revenuo of the colony derivod bi from the provinces ? Had it not been for tli colonising efforts made . by tho provinces, ther would have been no (population to contribute t tho revenuo. If New Zealand was to be made great colony, tho provinces musthave.elbow-roon and be allowed to work. out their colonising fun< tions. It would be necessary to do away wit the provinces at some time, but that time had nc yet arrived. If tho House was tired of Aucklum let it leave Auckland to itsolf ; and if it did si he was sure that before seven years were expiroc not only Auckland, but tho whole of the Nort Island would bo able to resume the position whic •it formerly occupied. He trusted the Houao woul absolve Auckland from the charge of extrava ganeo, and from having been tho canso of it present depression. Mr BUNNY felt perfectly satisfied that th vote of tho House would show the Governmon that it approved of the financial statement as se forth in the Treasurer's statement. In looking a a financial statement, tho feeling and circum stances of the community should be regarded. I would bo absurd for the Government to brinj down financial proposals which would neitho meet the wishos nor the circumstances of thi people. They were bound to supply to the coun try — whether to Provincial Governments or air other bodies — sufficient funds to carry on.thi business of the country j and the provinces wen not in a position to tax themselves. The tim< had not arrived for the abolition of provinoia institutions • he had no objection to find witl thorn himself, save that outlying districts wen disregarded, but the complaints that had beer made would ' probably cause this evil to be veine died for the future. He trusted that the present Ministry would remain in office fora cohsidorabl< period, and thut their financial policy would b< adopted, because- he believed that it would tenc to settle the disputes between the provinces anc tho General Government. If the 'Government would oi) ly extend tho legislative powers of tin Provincial Council's, the House might make « two-years' appropriation at a time, andtlien it need not meet so ofton. He was glad that tho Government had begun to make a bolder stand, and had slated that tho House must swallow their financial' policy Us a whole, or tuko the consequences. He hoped tho'Govornmonfc would not give the lion, member for tho Goldfields leave to withdraw his amendment, but would press it to a division, They had been told that the tariff pressed heavily upon the working classes, but it was nil nonsense j it pre:-scd upon all classes, and they could not expert, after an cxpensivo war, that tho tarifl would not do so. The only way to uvoid the evil was by retrenchment. Mr LUDL.IM thought th© House scarcely understood the position it was iii ; becauso, although the House had not given permission to the hon. member for tho Goldfiolds to withdraw his amendmont, yet, from what the 'hon. member for Wamirapa had said, it would appear that the Government intended to go to a division. [Mr Stafford hero remarked that Mr Bunny had had no communication with tho Government, but had at tho same time, hit upon the intentions of the Government in saying that it would stand upon their original motion]. - The supporters of the Government had been placed in a rather embarrassing position in boing asked to accept tho financial policy of the Government a 9 a whole; tor ho felt that there were parts of the policy with which ho could not agree. Ho did not share the surprise of tho Postmaster-General in not hearing the voice of the provincialists, as he presumed they were satisfied with tlu> offers made to theni. Ho could not but feel that the proposed policy of the Government was in. direct opposition to their financial. policy of last year, for the leading feature of the latter policy was, thut no further loans should bo raised; but that, it' there were any defieioncy of the revenue, it. should be met by further taxation. The present policy of the Government seemed to be one. of expediency. Although the evil might bo averted for n time, yet the clay must come when they would be brought face to face with tho people Year by year the question ivus shirked ; nnd the financial policy simplr put jfT for another year the consideration of the question — Were they to continue to tax tho people for tho support of tho Provincial Governments ? j The majority of the members of that House folt'| Lliat the present taxation was oppressive to tho ROuntryj and that the people could not boar any increase. Before the Government toldtho House j they must tuko tho financial policy as a whole, they ought to have allowed i., to ascertain whether \\\y retrenchment could be made. Retrenchment sould not bo eflbcted by reducing salaries so much , por cent ; but, perhaps, by doing away with some Alices altogether. The expense for magistracy j might properly be reduced ; the magisterial duties | in tho country districts might; bo discharged by j .ho unpaid justices. Tho postal expenses might porhups be lessoned. The leading feahire of Iho ! policy of tho Government was to involve the | country more deeply in debt ; but I his he did not vpprove of. As to tho proposals with relation to lie provincos, ho should ho quite willing to suploi'fc I hem so far as rogardocl tho repeal of (ho Surplus Revenues Act ; but tho Government, if ;hey gavo half of the revenuo to tho .provinces, would loavo themse!ro9 too irirrow a margin. I Moreover, although tho provinces might feel satisfied now, they would, after a time, form combinations to reduce 1 the provincial charges -by throwing them back upon the General Govern-

it naenfc. There was every reason to beliere tin r, : tho estimate of the Colonial Treasurer of the r id venue of this year would be .borne out; but st tho West Coasfc goldfields fell off in their yieli j there would be an equal falling off in the revenu 3- The allocated debt had been imposed upon tt c provinces with the consent of their represonti 10 tivea; and although no doubt the province .< d Auckland was at present in such a position tbi n it could not pay its share of tho allocated deb i- yet he believed tho North Island would in a fc a years bo very prosperous, and it would therefor it bo better to suspend the operation of the Loa •s Allocation Act, instead *f repealing it. Ho equal! i- , thought that the debts justly due by the provinci ; to the Genoral Government should not r be>.cai 0 celled ; and the pride of Otago ought to. prevei d her ascepting such a proposal. It was patent i i, every one that the greater portion of tho gooc ;- 1 consumed in Marlborough paid duty at Wellinj t ! ton and Nelson ; bufc were there not many lil t ' cases in the cojony ? Although it might not t \ . advisable to press tho claim of tho General G< - , vernraent against the provinces, yot it should b & ! held over to be repaid at some future time. ] y I was wise, in every point of view, that fehe provir t cial loans should be consolidated/ and the guai - ; antee of the Goneral Government given to them 3 ! It was a very good proposition that the province 1 1 should not be allowed to borrow for the future 1 j He should say nothing about the proposed fresl r ! issue of debentures ; but would vote againßt th . amendment of tho hon. member for the Goldfields ) not that he disapproved of it, but because it wa • | to be taken as condemnatory of the whole polic; :j of the Government, It would be much wiser ti 5 , raise a loan by n direct Loan Act rather than b; ,| a fresh issuo of debentures. If a quarter of i i ■ million wore borrowed, in what position wouh j ' the colony bo next year ? The provinces wbul< i not bo better off thon than now. ; Mr MACANDREW" did not know that then • was any great objection to the financial policy i as a whole ; bufc it fell very far short of what th< 1 country required and had a right to expect. Ii ■ did nofc grapple with the situation ; it did not re • move the great evil under which tho colony was , laboring — excessive taxation. The House would i be failing in its duty unless it took somo steps U i mitigate this evil. This excessivo taxation was . exercising a most depressing effect upon th( i country. The evil was aggravated because tht money raised was being expended on unproductive objects. Instead of attempting to remedy tho evil the Colonial Treasurer seemed to think taxation was a pleasant thing. They had been told that the lion's share of this excessivo taxation went to the provinces to maintain extravagant departments ; but it seemed to be forgotten that the greater part of the administrative work of tho colony was done by the provincial governments. Under those circumstances, it would have been supposed that the provincial governments would have had the largest share of revenue; but instead of that, they received tho smallest. If provincial governments were abolished to-morrow, some other provision would have to be made for the performance of their functions, and the General Government could discharge thorn neither bo efficiently nor economically. If the. provinces wore such great evils, the logical inference was, that their-supplies should bo stopped afc once. If the General Government would only confine itself to matters of federal importance, he, for one, would be happy to come face to face with tho provincial tax-gatherer instead of the general taxgatherer. The financial scheme of the Government did not propose to.roduco the burdens of the people by a single far tiling. It>waa of no use for any private member of that House to propose any measuro ; nothing but a radical change in the system that had been pursued for several years could avail anything, and that change could, in the present constitution of the House, only be prepared by the .occupants of tho Ministerial benches. Nevertheless, he said that he would re-' duco the number of tho departments of the Genoral Government — he would have few men, but would pay them well ; with the exception of tho Supremo Court and one or two Resident Magistrates in each province, he should leave each proThree to provide for the administration of justice ; he would take off the whole of the ateam postal subsidies at the end of the existing contracts; the Panama contract appeared to be a matter that would settle itself ono of these days, but if it did not, it wo'ild pay the colony to give a handsome eurn to get rid of it ; ho would abolish tho Native and Defence Offices, and protested against even the proposed force of 300 men, which , lie looked upon a 9 tho genii of a standing army, a thing to bo avoided. He had hoard that atrocities had been committed on both sides (luring the late war which would make humanity blush. Statements had been repeatedly made in that House that unarmed men and women, in the dead of the night, had been shot down in cold blood by half-intoxi-cated men of the Colonial Forces — or he would rather suy demon 9in human shape The COLONIAL SEURETARX" moved that the words of the hon. member be taken down, in order that ho might be called upon t© prove them. They were a disgrace to the House. This was agreed to, and the words wore taken down by the Clerk. In reply to Mr Stnfford, The Speaker said it was perfectly competent for the House to take the words into consideration at once, or to order them to bo considered at any future time. Tho COLONIAL SECRETARY would move that the words taken down be orderotl to be con- I sidered as tho first Order of tho day for Friday. j Mr T RAVERS did nofc consider tho words to j bo "disorderly" in tho sense used by May, 'and thought the House should at once take the matter J inlo consideration. I The motion was agreed to. Mr MACANDREW expressed his regret that ! any words ho had used should bo taken to be disorderly; ho had merely repeated what ho j had heard. Tho tendency of the policy of tho colony during the last few yeuvs had been not to j civilise, but to exterminate a bravo and intelli- j gtmt people. Had missionaries of ponce instead of emissaries of war been sent among the Mnorie9, i they would now bo an enlightened and contented people. Tho host thing to bo done with tho natives was to Icavo them nlono. If an armed constabulary were necessary, let tho provincos which required it enroll and pay for ifc. As a I'uprwsnntativo of a Southorn constituency, ho jbjcv; 1 to being taxed for the maintenance of si'iHV i ti.o North Island. Without prejudicing ;ho \: opor carrying on of the business of the 3-oveminp ••>.(, tho expenditure, including all pernunout .urges, general and provincial, might jc brou^ui within half a million. Tho taxation ■night tiK-n bo reduced. Ho would nofc object to -.li« rep-Mi >ftho Loan Allocution Act if the' South vere gisrinteed against further loans. Tho lal.ive dhliimlfcy would continue to exist so long is tho country continued to piiy for ifc. Tho South would take upon theimelves tho payment >f tho Three Miilian Loan, and would evon give, i certain sum to be spent for native purposes, if i substantial guarantee were given by the North [slund that it should not bri liable for tho expense )f lurMier native warm Bo demurred to the perpetual hankering after tho territorial revenue of he Mi-idle island, whinh Imd become almost an diosyheraey of the Colonial Treasurer's ; but tho Southern provinces did not intend to part wifch heir owe lamb. Mr Macandrew conclude iby xpressing a hope that tho now order of things ov which all wore aiming at, though in different mya, would soon arise. He should vote against ho financial policy j because ifc did not go far nongh. . Mr H. A. ATKINSON denied that such feolnga as those imputed by tho last speaker, had vi' r animated the minds of tho settlers against lv» natives. He- was 'in considbr&blo'' difficulty .bout the financial statement ; because he did

not like to speak on one side and vote'ibn thtt other. The Qtor ernment had not acted fairly towards their supporter*. Great credit- hlid been given because the estimates wore a grea£ saving upon those of last year j but after examining the estimates of ordinary expenditure he Considered that they were £50,000 in excess o£ ijagfc year. i He would probably be told by the, Colonial Trea- [ aurer, that the charge for JDefenco, : should be placed npon loan $ but, for several years. J$ would be absolutely neoessary to provide £UQjOOO or £70,000 a year for Defence, and it Qttght there* fore to bo paid out of ordinary, .revenuo. If tt* present system of finance 'Were continued, it would bo necessary ,, to raise a .fresh ' Joan every year. The proposal for the adjustment^of tha debts due by the provinces was .unsatisfactory. The hon. gentleman argued to_ show thai if the proposals of the Government we;re ! carried l into offect this year, the province of IWnaki would receire £500 from the General, Goyerh&ent for J which it woi- t have to pay £400. He j thought the o;.-. . .aibn of the Loan Allocation Acfc might very properly be suspohded; 1 but a fresh allocation ought to be made. : lie" trusted that the Government would reconsider theirtaetermination of making the House accept Jheir policy as a whole, and would listen to the entreaties of their friends to begin a reduction of expenditure at once. ' ■. Mr ORMOND repudiated the charges made against the settlers of the Worth lalurra by the hon. member for Clutha. The colonial jjforty considered that they were holding to thd'policy of their party j and that the Ministry' were tearing it. He objected to' the permanent endowment to the provinces/ under the Public Revenues Act; and to borrowing money to support' the extravagance of the provinces. Theso two points being taken out of the Government's financialpolicv, he approved of it. If the Government rtcfopted the pi-oposal of the hon. member for Wufrarapa, he could not vote for going into Conirnittep iff Supply* He did not gee the fairness of renii't'ting^tbe debt due by the province of Marlborough otvu" not the dobt of the province of which he Was ail-epresen-tative. He objected to handing over 'the confiscated lands to Auckland, because she hf(cl not the means to administer them properly. . ''* Mr REEVES said, in considering ttij9 general sciope Of the financial statement/it was 'necessary to take also into consideration the whole l policy of the Government. They had been, tola that the financial policy was the keystone of. tm arch of Government policy ; but afteV a caileful^xainination, he had come to the .conclusion "that the financial scheme' formed no part, 'of the general policy of the Government, as the measures which the G-over'nmerit'had before introduced this session, were essentially anti-provincial, wUue.tho financial policy was quite' the contrary. THe Government had totally misunderstood the jfeeUng of the country and the House. The desire .of -the country was a. reduction of taxation. ' T-lie country was suffering extremely from the excessive taxation imposed>pon it. , The financial .'jwlicy wa» reverting lo a system of expediency amf compromise which lie had hoped was abandoned. Although a rational proyincialist, he was opposed to borrowing for the purpose of supporting the extravagance of provincial governments." The country liad looked to 'some bold Bcheme ; |>y which those- provincial governments which h'afi fulfilled . their functions could bo' swept away ; but had been disappointed. From what he hud said it would be seen^hat'he objected' to' those^details of the scheme which would carry put the 1 objectionable feature of compromise. He confessed that he could not see. on what grounds th'e' {ftistodiaai of the public purse should make' fi& of their power to remit the payment of tlte dettfc due by the provinces. He should like the bulk of the money owing by the South to, be rep^ftfj and the payment of the debts of the Northern-provinces to stand over. He objected to the repeal <fi the Loan. Allocation Act and to giving-the confiscated lands to the provinces. The allocated debt ta&ht be allowod to stand over. ' He objected altogeTher to ea». t iblishing oven the nucleus of a standing army. Tliedefence of the Northlslahdought to'bo placed in the hands of the settlers thenikelv.es. ?There waa only one weak point in the scheme /for" the consolidation of the loans — ho' did noCses how ifc could be mado voluntary. The Government ought to fix a price for the debentures, a'nd';!limit the time within which they eoiild be exoflanged to six months. With regard to a frpsh issue of debentures, the Government had beon bauly advised by the Crown Agents ; and siich a prpnosition, if carried out, would greatly injure the.creditof the colony. He should vote ugainsfc the ftoyernmeni. Mr BALL felt inclined to endorse Klie financial policy as a whole. He iM'esuraedthe Govenunent would not object to retrenchment when the details came to be discussed. Their proposala had no doubt beert .dictated more by.neces^iiy than by choice ,• and the Government appetieed to have done the best they could. He did, nop think it adTisablo that the allocated' debt; 'and/| the debt, due by the provinces to the Generul Gigrernmenfc, ehould be held over the provinces whe^, there wa» no possibility of their paying it. \ ifea feeling wliich Boemod to actuate many of the ; Soutliera members was— ;the ; North are "down^let us keep them down. So long as the rights of- §he partieg interested .were rt'specled,. he. could .flee no particular objection to p, fresh issue of. debentures j but as the Government had aunougcod theip willingness to give way on this point,, tbere would bG no trouble about this matter. ■ ' , 5 Mr PATrKRSON would have felt, great pleasuro had ho been ablo to support the.Q-overnraenfc in their financial proposals, but could c not do so. What the colony wanted was stability in its finance, and this soheine would not giy^ ifc. The proposal to remit the debt duo by tb«[ provinces was unsatisfactory to both the General Government and the provinces. The consolidation of the loans would be a benefit to the country at largo. Ho was considerably embarrassed with regard to the proposal about the confiscated lunds. Ho would, vote for going into Cpuinjittee, but would reserve to himself the right of opposing the detnils of the scheme in Committeg. Mr T. MACJFARLAtfE said the proposals of tho Government^ liberal as thoy,were,fjvould wot meet th,o requirements of Auckland it would be foolish to expect that that province) $vithin any definite time, could repay the allocated £lebt. The proposals of the Government woujd h# likely to tend to tho unity und prosperity of Ijho coloity» and he should vote for going into Committee of Supply. , .'., Mr MAIN moFod tho adjournment ,0/ the dobate, which was agreed to. ■ x BANKKfPTCy BILL. • \ The Bankruptcy Jiill was further (Jonsidored in Cojnmitteo. , i; > NEW ZEALAND INSTITUTE BILT* This Bill was rend * second time. ' m .r COMMITTEE 11EP0RT3. ■..■• The Scotch Church Land Siile JBill was reported, SKCOND HEADINGS. ? The Nolaon, Cobclon, and Wosbpo.r^ Railway Bill, and the Crown Lands (Nohion)i Leasing Bills were read a second time. THIRD READINGS. ,J> Tlio Gold FieHs Acfs Amendment Bill and the British Australasian Mail- Service Bill&vero read v third time ami passed. • .j Tho Houso adjourned at 1.35, p.m. \,\i