HOUSE MAJORITY VOTES FOR THE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BILL ...

Wanganui Chronicle, 22 November 1950, Page 5

HOUSE MAJORITY VOTES FOR THE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BILL ...

One Government Member Voted "No" And Another, Absent On Duty, Would Have Done So

PARLIAMENT BLDGS., Last Night (PA).—One member of the Government (Mr. Hanan, Invercargill) voted against the Capital Punishment Bill when a motion to commit the measure was put to the House of Representatives tonight. All the members of the Opposition voted against it. The Prime Minister (Mr. Holland), speaking in the debate prior to the committal of the Bill, said that he was proud to belong to a party which permitted a free vote on such a measure. Mr. Holland added that another member of the Government (Mr. Aderman, New Plymouth )also would have voted against the Bill had he been in the House. Mr. Aderman is one of the members of the House who is escorting visiting Commonwealth Parliamentarians

through the Dominion. The Opposition forced a division on the motion of the AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Webb) to commit the Bill and the motion was carried by 38 votes to 31. The Opposition called for a further division on the third reading and the Bill was passed by 37 votes to 28. Several members had gone home before this division was taken. Mr. Hanan again voted against the Bill in this division. The acting-Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Nash) said that if deterrence could be proved there might be some justification for the State taking a life in cold blood, but evidence did not give that proof. Mr. Nash said the Founder of the Christian faith had taught, "Love your enemies; do good to them that hate you!” Mr. Smith (Govt., Hobson): Kiss the murderer! Mr. Nash: Yes, He might have taught that. He said those who professed the Christian faith should not use capital punishment as an instrument of revenge., NO DETERRENT Mr. Nash said Christ’s statements were not merely sentimental They were permanent wisdom. It was a remarkable fact that of 167 persons sentenced to death at the Bristol Assizes at one time during the last century, no fewer than 161 had actually witnessed a hanging, showing that capital punishment itself was no deterrent A Government member: What else can you suggest? , Mr. Nash said murderers should be segregated from society. A Government voice: For ever? Mr Nash: If necessary, yes. He added that this might be a greater deterrent than capital punishment. Capital punishment, so far from discouraging crime, might tend to increase it. The Nazis killed hundreds of people, but did not reduce crime. ,Mr. Nash asked the Attorney-General to defer the Bill until the United Kingdom Royal Commisison presented its report. He said that crime could be lessened by stopping the importation of books and magazines glorifying crime, and by prohibiting the publication of cinema advertisements of a similar unwholesome nature. The Minister of Education (Mr. Algie): If the honourable gentleman will give me a hand to stop them, I will give it a go. Mr. Nash said our police did not carry firearms and generally they did not carry truncheons. That was typical of countries in which capital punishment had been abolished. The police did not feel it was necessary to carry arms. Mr. Nash said Christian teaching extolled mercy and he thought the approach of mercy and understanding was necessary in dealing with crime and seeking to reduce It., Many lives would be saved if the featuring of crime was stopped, continued Mr. Nash. Capital punishment, in his opinion, was anti-Christian and its practice did not reduce crime. The tendency to crime was extended bj the publicity given to it. We could do more to check people who had criminal factors in their makeup by improving conditions in general and by having psychiatrists attend them, than by any suggestion of sending them out of this sphere. He hoped the Government would give further thought, to the passing of the Bill this session and await further evidence on the issue. The Prime Minister (Mr. Holland) said that when the cloak of Christianity was used to support one’s view it did not mean that anyone who opposed that, view was not a Christian. The capital punishment issue had caused him to search his heart very deeply indeed, and he had conducted many searches ‘before he could make up his mind. Sentimentality, hatred or vindictiveness should not be allowed to sway any member’s vote, on the Bill. Every man apd woman on the Government side of the House was completely free to vote on the issue as his or her conscience dictated and not the slightest, pressure had been brought to bear on any member, said Mr. Holland. GOVERNMENT’S POLICY The Bill was a Government, policy, continued the Prime Minister, and the | electors of the country had approved it. The acting-Leader of the Opposition had made an amazing statement when he said tht promises made to the public should be forgotten when human lives were at stake. That was in striking contrast to what the member for Hutt had said, at election time, when there were votes to be obtained. Mr. Holland said he thought the acting-Leader of the Opposition was taking too much upon himself when he said that, in his | opinion capital punishment, was antiChristian. That, carried, the implication that supporters of the reintroduclion of capital punishment, were not

Christians. If it was claimed that <0 oppose the Bill was to be a Christian it also demenstrated the weakness of the case from that point of view. Two main things had emerged from the debate so far, continued. Mr. Holland. The first was that there should bp a full inquiry into the issue, and that the Bill should not proceed until the outcome of the United Kingdom Royal Commission was made known. The second was the allegation that the Government was rushing the Bill

through the House. The taking of urgency, he added, did not in any way restrict any member who wished to speak on the Bill. It should be remembered that t+ie Labour Government in 1941 intro"duced the Bill to abolish capital punishment on a Friday and put it through on the following Tuesday without agreeing to the Opposition request for an inquiry before the Bill was passed. The present Bill was introduced last August, sent to a joint select committee and reported back to the House on November 2. Some Opposition speakers who had urged the Government to delay the Bill had actually voted against an inquiry in 1941. Despite the fact that the Government had given every opportunity for an inquiry to be held, Mr Holland said he had njade up his mind on the Bill,

TWO GOVERNMENT MEMBERS AGAINST BILL

He respected the views of the member for Invercargill and said that were the member for New Plymouth in the House, he, too, would have voted against the measure. He was convinced in his own conscience that many murders would not have been committed had there been a death penalty. The victims were dead and nothing could be done about that, but the victims of the next murder were still alive. He believed that the deterrent of capital punishment would save many lives. He considered that many murders had been committed for material gain, and that those crimes were planned because the perpetrators thought they could get away with it and, because there was no death penalty, they thought it worth the risk. The absence of that deterrent encouraged the commission of the crime itself. The Bill was desirable and “urgently necessary," said the Prime Minister. It was a proper Bill and he would vote for it. The Attorney-General (Mr Webb) replying to the debate, apologised for a remark he had made when moving the Bill’s committal and which had been misinterpreted as making some reflection on Mr Carr. It was unfair of Mr Hackett (Opp., Grey Lynn) to have declared that the officers of the Justice Department who had given evidence before the select committee in favour of capital punishment could have presented an equally strong case against it. “I told them in preparing their case to suppress nothing and to make only those statements they believed in,' said Mr Webb. Even the Howard League had complimented these departmental officers on the fairness with which they presented their case. A DETERRENT Mr Webb said he justified capital punishment not on grounds of revenge, but because of its deterrent effect, and there was strong evidence that it did in fact deter some people from taking life. In one case in America an intending murderer enticed his victim from a State where the death penalty applied to one where it did not. The average murder rate in New Zealand was nearly one a month, and if even one a year could be prevented the Bill would be fully justified. Mr Webb said the safeguards for a criminal were so extensive that there was no real risk of an innocent person being executed. This was all the more so since the Court of Criminal Appeal was established. It could quash a Supreme Court verdict if it felt justified. It was virtually certain the Bill would be the means of saving at least one life each year, and if it did that it was justified.

Mr Webb said he was as soft-heart-ed as any other member. He sympa-

thjsed with those who had been in prison and if he met a former prisoner he would cross the street to speak to him. That was part of the Christianity which he practised as well as preached. The Opposition called for a division on the committal of the Bill (which had been read a second time pro forma before it was referred to the Select Committee) and the Bill was committed by 38 W>tes to 31, Mr Hanan being the only Government member to vote with the Opposition against the Bill. The division list was as follows: For (38) Against (31) ALGIE ANDERTON BODKIN ARMSTRONG BOWDEN CARR BROADFOOT CHAPMAN COOKSLEY COMBS CORBETT CONNOLLY

EYRE COTTERILL FORTUNE FREER GERARD HACKETT GILLESPIE HANAN GOOSMAN HOWARD GORDON JONES. F. GOTZ KEARINS HALSTEAD KEELING HARKER KENT HAYMAN McCOMBS HOLLAND MACDONALD, R. HOLYOAK E McFARLANE JOHNSTONE McKEEN JONES, S. I. McLAGAN McALPINE MASON MACDONALD, T. MATHISON MAHER MOOHAN MARSHALL NASH MASSEY PAIKEA MURDOCH PARRY NEALE RAT AN A RAE, J. SEMPLE ROY SKINNER SHAND TIRIKATENE SHEAT WALLS SIM SMITH SULLIVAN SUTHERLAND TENNENT WATTS WEBB

Members who had leave of absence: Messrs. Fraser and Doidge (ill), Herron (family bereavement) and Aderman, Hudson, Kidd, Omana, Osborne, D. M. Rae and Mrs Ross (all of whom are escorting parties of visiting Parliamentarians). The Speaker (Mr. Oram) did not vote. The Bill was put. through committee incorporating amendments previously recommended by the Select Committee. On the third reading the Opposition called for another division, the vote in this case being 37 for the Bill to 29 against. The Bill was passed.