HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume XLIX, Issue 12549, 12 July 1905, Page 5

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

NAVAL DEFENCE

The House met at 2.30. The Hon. Mr. Seddon gave notice to introduce the Australian and N.Z. Naval Defence Bill. LAND COMMISSION. In reply to Mr Massey, tlhe Hon. Mr. Seddon said the (report of the Land Commission had gone to the Governor, and as scon as it was returned he would make an announcement to the House. OLD AGE PENSIONS. The debate on the motion tor the second jv^ading of the Old Age Pensions Bill was resumed by Mr. j. C. Thomson, who urged that if pensions were made universal the incentive to fraud would be taken away. Now was the time, he said, for the creation of a special fund for tßie payment of the pen. j sion, so that nothing should interfere with it in, future. His idea was'io create a large reserve for the purpose of raising the necessary revenue, in the j same way as reserves were set aside for ' education purposes. Mr Hogg did not think the colony was in a position to go in for a universal Old Age Pension. He could not help thinking that underlying the suggestion for such a soheme was a desire to make the burden so heavy that tihe colony would be unable to bear it. Mr. W. Fraser pointed out that the Bill would raise the pension of those who had nothing and could earn nothing, but would not in any way benefit those who had exercised thrift. ,

Mr. Seddon said he proposed to raise tho maximum income wnioh could be earned by a person from £52 to £60. Mr Taylor complained that the present system was productive of a great soheme of deceit and malpractice. He did not see why old a.g& pensioners should have to transfer their'homes to the Public Trustee before they could get a pension. There was aav-aa-my of thrifty and deserving old people in the

colony who felt they were the victims of great injustice through this provision, and he gave typical instances of such eases. He did not believe the colony could stand the strain of a universal pension, but before tliey were as ridiculously generous as proposed in this Bill, they should at least be decidedly just. He moved the folowing amendment:—'"That no Bill dealing with Old Age Pensions will be satisfactory which fails to place the system on a more equitable basis by abolishing the penalties now imposed upon many thrifty and industrious old colonists, w*ho, because they possess a ihonie valued at £270, are deprived of a pension, the House is of opinion that this injustice should be removed before the pension ds increased."

Ma" Ell seconded the amendment. He did not think the Bill was purely an electioneering movement, and thought that the Premier was in earnest in his proposal to .increase the pension ; but it would meet with general approval if the property qualification was don© with. The debate was interrupted by the dinner adjournment. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. In reply to the Premier Mr Massey said -he had not been consulted in regard to the amendment. Mr Wilford supported the Bill. Mr James Allen asked why the Premier .had not brought down a. contributory scheme. Such a scheme would bo far bettor than the present one, as it would provide for all, while at present pensions were only mode for a f>jw. The House should be united by the pruicip;© that the colony should recognise thrift, and the area of the pensions should he increased rather than the amount. This was imperative in tbe interest of those who had long been suffering a grave in-, justice. Sir J. G. Ward said Mr: Taylor's amendment was intended to kill tho Bill. The amendment indirectly suggested that the nucleus of a universal pension scheme be placed on the Statute Book. A voluntary contributory system would be no good without a system such as we have 'now running side by side with it. Further, they would have to wait ten years before putting it into operation, and if the country waited to introduce a contributory scheme on a oompu'sory basis, let them pass another Bill for that purpose. Mr. Taylor's amendment meant that they must stop tihe 8:11. They were going" to make a leap in the dark, iamd would break down the system by its own weight. Mr Bedfcrd said the object of the amendment » ras not to establish a .universal pension, but tto remove grievous' disabilities from the holders of property. It would be; tim© enough to inoroaee the pension when that had been done The carrying of the amendment did nob 'necessarily mean killing the Bill. Mr Massey said he believed tihe time wais coming when the price of butter and wool would not be so high as at present, and when that state of things ,:ijrrived the revenue of the country would be very seriously affected, a^d the additional fousrden that iit was now' proposed to place on (the country would very seriously cripple our finances in future. He twitted the Premier with inconsisioney, in that last year he voted against the amendment proposed by Mr Taylor for raising the pensions to 10s a woek.