TE AUTE COLLEGE TRUST.

Wananga, Volume 4, Issue 48, 1 December 1877, Page 475

TE AUTE COLLEGE TRUST.

The following is UNKNOWN of the UNKNOWN port of, and evidence taken by, the Public Petitiens Committee of the Legislative Couneil on the petition of Te Hapuku and 203 other aboriginal Natives, published by us in our issue o f the -l-i-.b. instant :_ II.". I;■•.!. ~s :i..-y gave 1,700 acres towards this endev-mi-nt. tiny naturally look to have their children educated? —lt was i :>._;; them fc r ;o,a:iy years, and they would not semi their children to it ; but when they found that children at a distance were receiving the advantages of it, they began to think it would be of some value- to them. But :t was then t> o late: they can only now come in as vacancies <. e ur : but no boy belonging to the Ahuriri district ha-- • v r refused admittance. 116. //■■ . C.; ..,,!. Br,tt.~ It has been shown that they, as trustees, negl-oted their trust in that they did not erect schools, and it -a as said that, in consequence of that, the Natives v.oul i send their children to the schools?—l do net know what remark I a::i expected tc make ur>oa that. 117. W;.\ ...1.-, there not a seheoi. may I ask ?—Simply leea..>e ti.. :e w .i.- no money with which to erect a school , it was imvess:': '.-■ to erect schools before we had monev ;

SttjfljMftj that 1 we actually borrowed money about seven for the purpose of erecting one. The loan has ' 11$. Hon. Captain Eraser.] It has been said they objected to send' their children to school because the elutdren were put to do menial work ?—That must refer iff*, state of things "before I wa3 trustee. My trusteeship Commenced 18 years ago, when Bishop Abraham came here. 119. Hon. Mr. G.R.Johnson.] I understand that certain of these schools are used as industrial schools ; can you tell us what was the original intention in connection with this school ?—I believe it wag the same as the Otaki school ; it was intended to be an industrial school, where childTeu were to be set to do all sorts of work. 120. You never heard any complaint made since vou were a trustee ?—No. 121. Hon. Colonel Brett."] Do you not think it is the duty of the trustees to look after the interests of the inhabitants of the district as regards that particular estate, they being deeply concerned in its welfare ?—All the trustees can do is to select the best, agent they can get, and Arrange for frequent reports as to the management. I Believe, as far as my knowledge goes, that no estate in New Zealand has been managed so well as the Te Aute estate. I would challenge the whole community to show another instance in which trustees beginning without capital have been able to bring an estate into the condition this estate has been brought into within a few years. At one time £ls a year was considered its value ; now it is said to be worth £2800; if so, nothing could be more creditable to the managers of the estate. 122. I suppose the value of land has increased as the country has progressed ; and perhaps twenty years hence the land will be worth double its present value. It is said the estate consists of 7000 acres, and that it is worth £5 per acre ?—I have never considered the value of the fee-simple, inasmuch as it is inalienable. 123. Hon. Mr. Edwards.] But the rental value of an estate is regulated by its selling value ?—I know nothing about the selling value. 124. If it were worth .£35,000, it should bring 8 per cent, of that amount as rent ?—Perhaps. The Committee will, I trust, pardon me in making a remark. It is evident to me, from my knowledge of the Maori language, that the petition before the Committee must have been first drawn up in English, and then translated into Maori. I have been credibly informed that many signatures a.e those of persons who could not have known what they were signing. Upon the face of it, this petition, it is clear, is not the original petition, for no Maori would have begun the petition as this is begun. I wish to make one further remark. I should like to see this petition most thoroughly gone into, because it may affect the future action of the trustees, and I am sure "it would affect Mr. "Williams' relation to the school. He has managed and directed this school for years most satisfactorily, and I feel convinced that unless the whole matter is cleared up he will abandon the management of the school altogether' The result would be that the trustees would have*to pay .£2OO or £3OO a year to some persons to act as manager and director of the institution. The difficultv of obtaining a suitable person might possibly cause the school to be closed for a year or two. 125. The Does Mr. Williams give his service* gratuitously ?—Mr. Williams does give his services gratuitously to the school. Although I am not hero to make any complaint, I must say it does appear rather hard that a person who has given his services gratuitously for twenty-five years, should be attacked in a petition of tlm kind, which has been trumped up—l use the word advisedly. Oa behalf of Mr. Williams, I would urge that your honorable Council should thoroughly investigate the

petition. The schoolmaster, rwh© ia-a valuable, ope, coold Og* t I am sure, .carry: on the school without Mr. WilliaibsV aujsction and sopporti My own opinion is that the.'ptjetion is a veryrdisgraceiul one.

[ Tuesday, 18th September, 1877. [ The Rev. SAMCKi'WtLLiAMS in attendance and examined. 126. The CJiairman.'] State where you reside, Mr. TO»l-~ Hams, if you please?—At Te Aute, Hawke's Bay. 127. Have you charge of the Te Aute school ?—Yes. 128. You have seen the petition of Te Hapuktt and others ?—I have seen it. It was printed in the Waxaxga newspaper, both in English and Maori. 129. Can you state, from reading the petition, whether it was first written or composed in English or in Maori that is judging from your knowledge of the Maori language ?—As I read it in the Wanasga, I should say it was first drawn up in English and then translated into Maori. 130. Hon. Colonel Brett.'} Do you mean by that, that the petition is not so reliable as it would have been if originally drawn up in Maori ?—Certainly. 131. You infer that?— Yes. 132. The Chairman.} Do you think the Maori petitioners had seen the petition when they signed it ?—Numbers of them have told me distinctly that they had not. 133. You refer to men whose signatures are appended to this petition?—(Petition handed to witness). —Yes there is one here who declares he did not sign it. 134. What is his name ?—Both Tamata te Maruhaere and Paora Kopiha told me that no petition was presented to them, and that the petition was drawn up after the signatures were obtained. Kaniera Putauhinu was the first person I saw on the subject. Here is his name. (Witness pointed out the name, Raniera Putauhinu, oa the list.) 135. Is he an influential Native of Hawke's Bay ?—Yearn his own hapri, and one of the original owners of this land. [The Chairman here pointed out to the Committee that the heading to the list of signatures was "names" spelt ha English.] Witness (continuing) : Te Hapaku's is the first signature here [alluding to the body of the petition], and again his signature heads the sparate list of names, which seems to give further testimony that the names were first obtained and the petition drawn up afterwards. 136. Will you state to the Committee the position of the Te Aute estate, as the whole subject is now under our 1 consideration ?—I will take it up on two or three different • heads. 1 should first state to the Committee what my ' object is in coming here. This sort of thing has been | going on for four or five years. My character has con- \ stantly been assailed frcm a particular quarter. I have j lately seen correspondence iu the Ha.v:k<'s Bay Herald in ' which I have beeu maliciously attacked ; but 1 took no | notice of it, as I had beeß credibly informed as to the i source from which it emanated. I refer to one of the late ! effusions more particularly. I was told by one of the proj prietors of the Daily T>'legrct]>h. that it had been taken to ; them for insertion. They informed Mr. Russell that they would print the letter if he would put his name to it, so ! that the public might see that they were his views on the j subject : but he declined to sign the letter, and it was 1 passed on to the Hawke's B<zy Herald, in which it appeared. Therefore I took no notice whatever of that ' correspondence. However, on finding that a petition had [ been presented to your honorable House affecting myself | and alleged to have been originated by the Natives of the 1 Hawke's Bay provincial district, extensively circulated, j too, among the English and Maori population of the colony through its publication in the Wasanga newspaper, I felt I then that it became necessary for me either -tcr require

..ha,, my character should be clea. _u o. I should retire rrom tne public position I have held in the countrv for over thirty years. The obj-ct of rav letter to vourCommittee therefore, i* that the whole matter mav be thoroughly investigated, and that itiy character "mav bo clearea ir: r--f-T-iic<; to tin- management of theTeAut'•star-. [ would i'nrtij.-r s'ate that there have !„.,.-, the most friendy : .-.••.ir.jjs -x nr-ssed by the Natives towards myseh. On ;:-• ~;n ~'. \ugust I had a vcrv friemtlv meeting with a large number or. the Natives at Te Vt-te and the question of ,;,.. Te Ante school estate was never adumd t.. otuerwiso t':i..:i by the expression of regret that tneir cmidren did rot avail themselves of the advantages of the institution. I att-nd-d the meeting: at Te Hauke-on the Bth at the request of chiefs'in the district, aud there was no alhisiou whatever made to the Te Aute question. I mention this because it is stated in the Waxaxc.a tii-.: this petition was based upon resolutions passed at this meeting on tie- e.j, a:M '.'th August. Upon the ( .»:h. ■■:: djscussing the question of the Native Lands Court. Kma: , Kaweno. whose nam- is attached to this ;••::;:. n. ■:. speaking to the que-tion. appeared very inu'eh excited, and said that he suould . bject to the establishment of any Government ('our-, an.', went so far as to advocate th. i'r tearing np their Crown grants : and then he turned to neand said. •• And he-re is Mr. Williams : I am -lad !.•• ipresent to hear what I say. He is a Governum:;- man. \V■■ will therefore turn him out of Te Ante, and t ,k- it baeic into oi:r own hands." ( me~,:' the chiefs came to me ami whispering, said. " Do not take any notice of him : makno reply." I did remain perfectly quiet for a cousim-rahie time, during which many Natives replied to parts of Eenata*s spe-c!:. not. however, touching in any way upon the Te Ante question. At length Renata ros> again, and said, "■ I have spoken, of the school estate at Te Ante, and there :s not one of the Ngaitiwhatuiapiti, the original owners of the land;, who says one word in my support." Presently Renata Pukututu. one of the Te Ante Native*. rose audi referred to a meeting which the Nati% - es had about this time last year, when Te Hapuku called the original owners of the land together, ar d invited me to me>-t them. On that occasion Te Hapuku put in an application for muii -y. II•• said.. •• My young people will not o-o to ;.,•• 001. a:..: if tie- v.mug people will 11 < • r tike advantage of ti-.e >•■:....,', the old man ought to 1. tve part of the im.-or.ie ( f the . <t it ■ p mi to him." I the.i repiiedi ;.. T--Hapuku. referring to a :'qu->t "f the same kind !:■• had mad ■ to me seme y. ars ncfore. and I explained that I was merely in charge. ;t:i i i. :i ,| ;.,, authority to pay mom-v to anv < f them I ;.. *:. t ■ ■ ■ I out that as a matter of fact thev did not urg>- ;ie-ir >h:l ire. ; g■ tc school, and that th • e>: ■'.;■.• was !..•' property s,-; aside for the ix-m fit of ;';•• ■ Id-T •■ ■(■ph-. hut for the children, to whom the s.-jioo! was i .t,.-ii . the ■ v'::.■' ■■ e .a.'h u , ■ : y of which was bring carried on. <>:!■'• i f ; he N ••'. . \ > ■* '■••-- 1 ti.e q :e>t n : i of Xnlivi-s com in g ::■.-■:: i ,; , r :.-. r' - of ; h • . .untry.aud >iid that inasmuch ;is r'ne (, o\ ■,. ;■;,:;:..•;, t iiad 1 v. -11 pail of the land, they were ~!;■!■■ w 1 ■•;;,.. r,, derive the advantage from that part of :':::- • •:•;.•. but : i: • ught that as their children were not at se'mvl thc-v -.''.. ul : ii.tvr part <■:' the income paid to them in t' e ".-,!•; of !■■:.: I then reminded tne Natives that v: i: ■ ■:: tie- original • ;< a;:., a.t was drawn up. Bishop £.-•■- -I'.wn asked ne- to ma.ke i; ( h-ar to th.-m. giving them an . :.;.,'V";r.i;y to raise , L - ; , ■ ~■;!,.;,_ if they felt disposed, to th'- o;. ildron of Natives in oti,a - parts of New Zealand • ejr.e- invite.; to tie'' --chooi : ..'.so asrcing tie-m w i;,_-t h--r th -v had anv oh; , ' M " : i< ■" to the children of tiie Meiaiiesiau Mi>-iou boing illvit<■ 11 to the scuooi. 'i he Native reply at the time wa>. " Let the;a come : the :!!■ .re the merrier." or some; hit.:.: to tiiat ed'.-ct. 137. Was To Hapuku. tic-r-'V—To Hapuku was not prescnt at th.- drst meeting w itb. Sir < b-orge t ; »•. y an 1 iushop Selwyn. H-ws.-. rhe;e -t a >-■;':• sequent meeting at all events, becaoe ! .'erne!;.her he walked part of the bound-

ary with me. One of the Natives present at tho meetine to which Renata Pukututu referred, turned to Wakau Rewharewha, and. m a low voice, asked him was that the case. Wakau said yes, and I) 0 one touched apoo the again in my hearing from that day to this. This was twelve months ago. 1 "'"' Br " f " : w, -" ro - vou p riaci P al of «* _ 139. Ami giving your services gratuitously ' J — Y-s • for the last 30 years I have not received any "remuneration foi anything that.l have done in the way of education. I to make the subject upon which I have been speaking clear. \\ ith reference to the meeting at Te Hauke rinding tnat it was coming to an end. I asked Henare Matua. who was acting as president, to allow me to replv to wnat le lUpu.u and Renata had saM. I repeated substantially what I had said to Te Hapuku on a previous '•e.-a>i..ti : that tne question was in the hands of th« trustees., and tuat Icould not "Jv- th.-m monev without their ' u: . ; :"'•••!>'..V Ul ? authority ~f Parliament". Renata then ~-" 1 - " W;: : ;ili » s [ s r '-p'- v - »«'i satisfactory. What have w- rut ... ~.. w.th the trustees or anybody else. The land w..< give, io \\ illiams himself, and his father was m.• ..my other person recognised." Te Hapuku tmen >.u.:."\ou are right, Renata : 1 only knew Williams in My people said they wanted a minister. an i I said we wnl have nobody but Williams, and we give tm-._ian.-i to hum" I said to T~ Hapuku that I perfectly we,, leuietubered hun saying so, and his advising me to .; ■■: to tne land There was one other question raised bv i■■ Hapuuu at the tune. It is apart from this subject but :■■•:. mention what passed if the Committee wish. ' '.■*''• T ' ! " Chf '' r "' a "-Z Proceed in your own wav. Mr W iilmms : we had better hear all ?—Referring to the mill" he complained of my not paying him what he asked as the proceeds r.t the miil. I explained to him that I was simply trustee of the mill by their own appointment : that I had aiways advised that the income from the mill should be expended upon machinery and farming implements in order to encourage their young t'-on!- to habits of industry : but that if they insisted on the men-v beirio- pa id over t<> themselves. I had ;,.. alternative but'to ea\°it to them. ' " 141. Isth.-millm^th-.-sTn:-V--N-.,; ;: ; s on adjacent prop-rty._ i t!..-n wa:!< ■: ,■;;; ~f •].,. ; ionso . A number of Natives imme.u.it.-ly i..Mowed me. arid asked me not to take .my n-.m-e ~: what nad pa-sod a t l *i— meeting. Thev >a:.i." U ...; ups. v.., are sorry ti, ,t we asked vou to come t<> ;;,.- :n tmg. It w,> mi.; thought that anything would : - ;lv " : : >:l ' i ai;.-.;ri-t . Vol b «'e would not have asked vor ; " o.me." I i.ear.t no m-.re of this till the following >.itnr.;av. wm-n Raniera i J utauhinu. whose name I see att.a-m-d t ■ this petition, called at my house and told me that the signatur. s of persons attending the meeting had :>.-, u attaeiwd to a u titiou with reference to Te AuTe I a>ked him w'nat uas the o'-.;. ct of the petition. He said ••I cannot tell you.- ■■ What V I said." was there nothing read at ti.e meeting v He said " Nothing wLat.-ver the only discussion was while vou were there.'" I asked him how this thing had come" to pass. He said. ■' The following day a letter was s.-nt uV from Napier, with sheets of pap<-r ruled as a guide K.r'Yho signatures, accompanied by a letter from' Mr. William Grace, of Mr. Russell's Repudiation Office, requesting Henare Matua to get signatures to the sheets of paper and saying they would afterwards get up a petition in Napier and attach the names to it." 1 th.-n received a rr.-ju. st to visit the Natives at Te Hauke. and hold service on til- Sunday, which I did. Either before or after service. I forget whhb. several of the Natives assured me that when their signatures were being obtained. Tamata Te Mahuaere rose and. protested against their conduct in getting the signatures without the- Natives knowing what the nature cf the petition was. Paora Nikahere was pre-

Mnt, Paora ftapiha, Harawira Te Tatire, (one of the principal chiefs of the district), and several others. " Here,"' he said, " we have been discussing various subjects at the meeting, allowing the people to express their views on the subjects, and here you are signing your names to a petition on a subject which was never discussed, and on which no resolution was passed ; and I protest against such conduct. Had we wished to petition," continued he, "we should have discussed the matter with Williams in the first instance." The following Sunday I was at Omahu, and Noa Huke, one of the principal men in that part of the country, corroborated the statements of the other people ; and he remarked further, " I thought it would have been quite time enough for the rest of the Natives to speak when they found that the real owners of the land were raising the question. My understanding of this wag that they were applying to the Assembly for authority for you to pay money to i')•_-;.!." He said again. " If there had been any explanation regarding the object of the petition it would have been a different thing, but there was none whatever.'* I was, after this, at Tareha's place. One of Karaitiana's relatives tried to make out that there had been some writing with the papers for the signatures, but Tareha had plainly said, "No ; there was not anything of the kind." Shortly after this time the petition appeared in print. I visited Patangata. and the petition was read. I think I read it over to the Natives at their request. The Natives laugher, and said, " Williams, your disagreement was with your Pakeha friends. These are the words of your opponents. Your friends the Pakeha are your real opponents. Had the pe f itiou referred to the applica:ion for money we should have said that is a Maori's doing, arising out of Te Hapuku's application to you." [Here the witness named several Natives who were present.] Another Native came to my house who had seen a copy of the petition, and said he was greatly surprised when this petition appeared in the Waxa>*ga, and he pointed out a suggestion which he said tever occurred to the Maoris—that they should cut up their blocks of land, and advertise them to be let by public auction." He also said, •' I wish Mr. Russell, who has the fat of the land (wairakau) at Te Aute would cat up the blocks in his hands and advertise them to be let by auction, and get as good a pi ice as he can for us ; it might induce the trustees of the Te Ante school estate to follow hie example.'* / To be <:,,ntuiued.j