THE MEAT POOL.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 16625, 6 January 1922, Page 8

THE MEAT POOL.

ANOTHER CHRISTCHURCH MEETINC.

CALLED BY A. AND P. ASSOCIATION.

The Government’s meat pool proposal was under consideration to-day at a meeting for “ meat producers and all fConnected with the freezing industry,’* called by the Canterbury A. and P Association at the request of the Minister of Agriculture Mr D. W Western a presided. There was on atteudance of about 1(X). The chairman invited full discussion He said 110 was sorry that farmers had been passing resolutions and sending delegates to the conference when they knew nothing about the pool. Delegates should with an unbiased mind. The producer must not lose his head. He apologised for th * absence of Sir R. Heaton Rhodes and others. Mr D. Jones, M.P., was introduced. Mr Jones said that farmers were not passing resolutions without knowledge He considered, going b - his experience, that they bad been able to grasp the outlines of the scheme. He wished to correct an impression that seemed to have got abroad that the Government wished to jump in and secure control of New Zealand’s meat. The Government had no such desire. They brought forward the scheme because of the representations made by North Island producers.

Mr Jones was referring to a circular opposed to the scheme when Mr H. F. Nicoll objected, saying that the circular was anonvmous, iuid the Exporters’ Association dissociated themselves from it.

Mr Jones: I am very glad the Exporters’ Association dissociates itself from this circular, but farmers are signing a petition to the Government against the scheme with these facts put up to them. Mr Nicoll: Not with our knowledge. Mr Jones: The petition is being cir- t culated among farmers to be presented to the Government. I have had letters from fanners admitting that they signed it under a misapprehension. When we are judging the values of petitions of this kind we are bound to take into consideration some of the things that have been circulated.

Mr J. Connollv rose to a point of order. He said he thought Mr Joneis should keep to the iioint,.as others wished to speak. Air Jones said that he had been invited to speak, and must be allowed to take thq course he thought best.

The chairman said Mr Jones must be allowed to proceed. Mr Jones covered some of the ground made by him in earlier speeches. He said that some dement of compulsion was necessary to wipe out small lots and consignments. The weak holder was a grave source of weakness in the London market. “It 23 all right looking at the newspapers,” said Mr Jones, “ and say that hut for the high price of land wo would bo all right. There are men on farms without any mortgage at all who are finding it difficult to scrape along.” It- had been said concerning the Ashburton meeting that they burked inquiries. The gentleman in the chair at that meeting was not a supporter of the scheme He (Mr Jones'! had not called the meeting. Ho would have welcomed expressions of opinion by gentlemen who complained of repression. The feeling was in the House regarding grading of meat that probably a two-thirds majority could be got for Government giading cf meat. When they were picking holes in the new scheme they must remember that there were holes in the present scheme. When it was said that the scheme was exceedingly difficult and that details had not been placed before the public, he replied that the details were the same up to the point of the selling of the meat as those of the commandeer. They had merely to arrange the selling of th ‘ moat Mr J D. Hall asked the method of appointing delegates. Air Jones said that the Government had don© its best to fairly parcel out representation. In further reply to Mr Hall, he said he was satisfied that meat exporters and buyers could get a hearing at the conference. Air Nicoll said that meat exporters had received no invitation. Mr Jones said that many meat exporters had been at the freezing people’s meeting. It was for the producers to say whether tliev wanted an alteration. He was satisfied that the scheme could be satisfactorily adjusted. and he thought it was a bad thing to allow it to settle down into a fight. Mr D. Bates moved that the time limit of speakers be five minutes. Mr F. W. Johnston moved an amend ment that it be ten minutes. The motion was carried by 28 to 21 votes. After further discussion the chairman said he would use his discretion. Mr 11. F. Nicoll spoke as a farmer and an exporter. He complimented Mr Jones on his changed attitude. He had delivered, he said, a conciliatory, happy and logical speech. Perhaps he had a higher opinion of the intelligence of a city audience. Christchurch firms, so far as he knew were all opponents of the scheme, and would make themselves heard. Commercial firms were friends of the farmers and of exporters. Mr Jones said that the adoption of the scheme would mean an increase of London prices, but there was no good ground for such a statement. It was to the interests of British firms to get the highest prices for New Zealand meat. They could not get $d or Id per lb more in London bv adopting the scheme, but it would be a sensible thing to co-operate to reduce costs. Compulsion and elimination of the exporter were the two rocks on which the scheme would be wrecked. The exporter could not Btay in New Zealand under the scheme. Farmers would be compelled to put meat in a pool to be shipped to London and sold by men over whom they had no control and whom they did not know. The meat could be held at the option of the Board of Control resident in Wellington. Farmers who agreed with the scheme did so because they did not know what it meant. Compulsion was opposed to all a Briton's ideals. The board was to consist of three Government and two producers' nominees. The controller was to be appointed by the Government. Mr Jones denied the accuracy of the statement. New Zealand meat, Mr Nicoll continued, was held up in London last vear because the British Government was not prepared to meet the loss entailed in a free market. It was Government control for political reasons. By eliminating the exporter the producers would make a rod lor their own backs, and bring down the value of sheep by shillings a head. Mr J. C. Grigg asked if there were any big factors behind the scheme undlvulged. At Timaru they got a glimmer by Mr Burnett. He had Raid that a split in the Cabinet had developed over the Armour license. It *-«e?nprl that something of that kind

was behind so big a change of scheme. Had good arrangements been made in London ? Mr Jones said there was no ulterior motive behind the scheme. The Armour license would be turned down probably by two-thirds of the House. When it came before the caucus, and it was being discussed, the suggestion of a better marketing scheme sprung up. It was in the present instance purely an effort*on the behalf of the}Government to assist producers. Another point raised was that the Government was coming to the assistance of the weak freezing companies. None of the.freezing companies had come to the Government. He did not know if the scheme was going to assist the weak companies. The argument used was* that it would guarantee to them a certain supply. Ho did not believe it. He believed that the factory that gave the best service would get the trade. Another suggestion was that the banks asked for it to assist weak companies. He knew the statements to be incorrect. So far as the meat trade in London was concerned, Mr Grigg raised the point of what would happen if they refused to pay. Any business board had to accept very largely the market conditions governing at Home. There was the exception that the pool scheme would eliminate the man who was going to beat them, in the shape of the small bolder. ' He failed to see why a board could not sell meat, and feel the market as was being clone to-day. There waa no reason whv meat put on the market to-dav could not be sold next week as under the present svstem. In any case, the question of allowing purchases in that way, but with a measure of control, had always beer, in the mind of the committee. and in all* probability it might be in the interests of freezing companies and exporters to recognise that a measure of eofitrol as far as thov were concerned with the London market might he to their advantage. It was desired to exercise control over the weak holder of meat who was upsetting the market.

Mr Jones was asked whether he favoured a compulsory pool or reasonable control over weak holders. Mr Jones said there must be a measure of control. Contrary to Mr Nicoll’s statement, he had never altered his stand taken at Ashburton. The measure of control could be the basis of discussion. The Government wanted that measure of control that would prevent the brenking of the marKGt. Mr J. G. Armstrong said that the scheme was one such as lie would expect from the Labour Party in the House. How would the farmers like meat controlled bv Messrs Howard, Semple and Holland? He did not believe that any such wild cat scheme as the meat pool would help the farmer. Charges for shipping and freezing were U" in the air. While the Government was paying high wages the private employer could not reduce them. When wages came doftvn to pre-war level they eoul'» get charges down. To pool meat while the world was full of meat seem ed the height of imbecility. Air Nicoll read a document sent- out, he said, by the Government to half a dozen select people. It outlined a board of control established in New Zealand, and consisting of three nominated bv the Government, two by producers and a Government-appointed controller; members to be adequately paid for their services : the board to be under supreme control of a Minister of the Crown. Mr Jones said that that statement was never sent out by the committee. It never had their authority. Mr Connolly said he could understand financially embarrassed farmers and freezing companies embarking upon the wild pool gamble. Why should he bo compelled to hand over meat to untried, uncontrolled men? The wild experimental scheme would play right into the hands of other countries. Were they no't more likely to. get returns from the present tried and trusted agencies ? He strongly advised the people of New Zealand to retain the freeclom of voluntary selling. The majority of farmers of the district were not present They were away toiling, and would not have a voice in the mat- , ter. 2 The Hon D. Buddo said if the pool were to be established to-morrow, the exporters would find other channels for their activity. A Voice : Probably the Argentine I Air Buddo said that there were many ramifications of the trade in the Old Country, and exporters had been able to arrange channels and feed them apparently satisfactorily. It was very unlikely that they would get more for their meat in the United Kingdom. If big industries were in such a parlous state as at present,. how r could they expect a higher price? Any drastic reduction in wages at a moment’s notice would dislocate trade. They could only expect costs to fall when wages were adjusted, although he was of opinion that freezing companies were taking too much out of the farmers. He thought an optional pool would be an advantage He would strongly deprecate interference with the exporters’ system of rating and classification. It would also be an advantage if banks were guaranteed by the Government, so that they did not advance too much. Some control of shipping would be an advantage. They might spin over the whole year the export of meat. Mr Jones: Do you favour compulsion ? Mr Buddo: I have stated my case. At the present moment, with the anxiety of pa}-ing taxes and the welfare of the returned soldier farmers on their hands, they should do their best to effect a reform of marketing so long as they did not close up channels beneficial to the country. Mr F. W. .Johnston said that only a few days ago Mr Massey was at Home. “ the grand bulwark of Empire,” and now he was a Bolshevist, and someone had branded him as worse than a Queenslander ! Their ship had gone down, and they had to decide whether to embark upon Air Alassey’s raft or stay in their punt. Before Air Jones, had failed to answer Air Grigg'* s question as to what would happen if the London market refused to buy he was straight out in favour of the pool. It was stuff and nonsense that the pool was going to play into the hands of the trusts. The pool would stand up against the trusts. Had the Government made provision against solid opposition in London? If not, lie was afraid they would not go far.

Air Johnston made an alternative proposal. Industry and capital should be welded together, he said. A large company, with five to ten million of capital, could be formed. The British people, if they were sincere in their talk about freedom of Empire and silken ties, etc., should be willing to put up the -capital and to take a limited interest and to pay back to the suppliers at this end a bonus on all their supply out of the surplus monies after making provision for carrying on trade. There could be representation by suppliers at this end ns well as by capitalists at the other, and they could work well together. The firms that had been built up in New Zealand in connection with the industry would have a footing as agents of the suggested company. New Zealand meat was held up in London because of increased competition from the Argentine. It was clear Americans in London trade were going to push the Argentine trade to New Zealand’s detriment. An adjournment was made for lunch. Air D. Bates said that farmers one and all feLt that sonm+hinrr mnnt be

done to help them out of the present difficulty. They did not get a living out of a4O per cent export. The Government must be congratulated on what it had done. The farmers asked for legislative authority to organise against the trusts of capital and labour. He moved : “ That this meeting of Canterbury farmers is strongly of opinion that something must be done to save the meat industry, and approves of a scheme that will reasonably control the marketing of meat, and heartily thanks the Government on the opportunity it is affording those interested by calling a conference to discuss and if possible evolve a reasonable