LIQUOR AND DISEASE.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 11756, 21 July 1916, Page 3

LIQUOR AND DISEASE.

WAR REGULATIONS DISCUSSED, A REFERENDUM REQUEST. SUGGESTIONS OF COMPROMISE. [From Oca Correspondent.] WELLINGTON, July 20. The second reading debate on tho War Regulations Bill was resumed today, when further arguments on the subjects of liquor consumption and the venereal scourgo were advanced by members, a number of whom linked tho two subjects, contending that tho brothel and disease were corollaries to excessive drinking.; Mr G. J. Anderson protested against tho attempt to convey the impression that tho reform was needed on the soldiers' account. He wished to absolutely refuto the libel that people in prohibition areas resorted to privato drinking. If early closing was noc adopted tho House should grant a referendum. EIGHT TO EIGHT. ' Mr Wilkinson stated that tho question appeared to him as an economic one. A great monopoly was given to ono class for £42,000 per annum. License foes ought to.be increased, and should be payable on a graduated scale. A man had to consume a hundred times more beer than tobacco to contribute the same amount of revenue. Eight o'clock to eight o'clock closing would suit the majority of the House. An amendment to this effect would bo. moved in committee. If it were defeated an attempt would bo made to move for a referendum on the subject, which he was certain would bo carried by the country. Mr Wilford: How can you move an appropriation clause? Mr Wilkinson: We can direct the Government to bring in a clause. Mr Statham took exception to a prohibition witness before the Petitions Committee referring to some soldiers as sodden lumps of flesh. Members urging early closing ignored the fact that it was not they who made a sacrifice, but someone else. In his opinion the best way to restrict the use of liquor was to attack it at its sourco, by putting on a restrictive tax. That would mean that the public would have to pay more and consumption would decrease proportionately. Six o'clock closing without compensation would mean a gross injustice to hotelkeepers, while the brewers and wholesale peoplo would not suffer at all, rather the reverse. MIXED EVILS. Mr Isitt said that there was a close relation between excessive drinking and venereal disease. Colonel _ Potter himself admitted that. Ho siid that when men got three or four drinks and lost self-control they were prone to go along to the women from whom they contracted disease. The colonel admitted that men in their sober senses did not go to theso brothels. "I contend then," said Mr Isitt, "that men would not go along to brothels and sly-grog shops to get liquor if the hotels "wore closed early, but that after losing control by drinking in hotels they go to brothels and consume moro liquor there." "I protest," he added, "against the - amount of evil going on, and the refusal of members of this Houso to yield to the demand of the huge majority of the people of this country to adopt safeguards. He continued that a captain in camp told him that the efficiency of the men in training was reduced by 10 per cent at least through liquor. He was very much amused at the desperate efforts made to raise the soldier question. This was a red herring drawn across the trail by the liquor interests. The demand for early clewing was to conserve our economic resources in the great Empire struggle. Terrible sacrifices were asked of young men and of their parents for the Empire's sake. We had a right to demand this sacrifice. It was said wo had no right to sacrifice tlio finances of the trade to the greater and wider interests'of the Empire. That was a very strange sort of patriotism. _ Wo were always told that the economic aspect had to be considered if.wo were! going to win the war. Ought we not commence on the chief sources of waste —four millions on liquor and an equal sum put through the totaJisator_ annually? This would not cause a single moment's injury to tho nation's efficiency. He admitted that the earlier closing of bars would causo loss, but nobody knew better than the Attomey- • General that it was not equivalent to tearing up a "scrap of paper."

MINISTER'S SPECIAL PLEADING. "Nobody knows better than, tho At-torney-General that in his opening ho was guilty of special pleading," continued Mr Isitt. " I have a great admiration for him. There's something of the bulldog about the way he sticks to a case. I hope 1 shall some day see him exalted to the Bench. I venture to say that if Mr Justice Herdman in posse becomes Mr Justice Herdman in osso ho would .scarify a lawyer who opens his case with -anything like tho statement ho made thai, six o'clock closing was equivalent to tearing up a ' scrap of paper.' "What was tho contract under which liquor licenses were granted ? It was not a monopoly but a permit, and everyone who got such permit knew exactly the conditions of the permit. As to tho ' scrap of paper, was it torn when tho closing hour was reduced from eleven to ten, when a whole day was taken away and Sunday trading was prohibited? It was recognised by tho liquor' men that permits were granted subject to conditions, and tho Attorney-General knew there was no legal claim for compensation whatever." Mr lsitt admitted that there would bo hardship, but ho contended that there was no legal or moral claim for compensation. Ho would meet the hardship, however, by taxing brewers and oilier men likely to profit by restricted hours, and use the money so derived for the benefit of retail licenses. Ho concluded by saying ho was convinced that apart from members of the Cabinet there was a definite majority among the members of the House both for a referendum and the shortening of hours. AN INSULT TO WOMEN.

Dr Newman doclared that tho small amount of venereal disease in the camps was a record compared with other countries. He objected to the Minister's methods of tackling what might bo useful work. His speech teemed with coercion. Tho woman tempter was to bo treated as a criminal, while the tempted man escaped. Mr Russell: I said exactlj- tho opposite. Dr Newman: This clause is an insult to women. There are 1400 police in New Zealand. You give thorn the right to pounce on any woman going homo at night if she is with a soldier. It is the CD. Act over again. Dr Thicker: Rot.

Dr Newman continued that to leave tho administration of this part of the Act in the hands of men would be wrong. If drastic regulations were to be provided for dealing with venereal disease then they should appoint women doctors, women police and women as magistrates io try women. The Minister had an example in Canada, yet had made no attempt to make use of the information available in connection with the use of women for administrative purposes in dealing with the social problem. Speaking of the liquor traffic, Dr Newman expressed Iho hope that the House would take into consideration that over a- hundred thousand f-n'gnatuvoH Lad been placed to the petition j\;i- the .shortening of hotel hour*. 11. avkei] also why a rci'orei'dum v.as

not taken on the subject. It was r.n axiom that v/o trusted tlio people in everything. Then hero was an opportunity to trust tho people. Ho contended that there was an intense desire in all classes of the community for shortening tho hours of hotel bars.

Mr Webb urged State control of tho liquor traffic, but ho was opposed to six o'clock closing, because it would jnoh affect tho brewi-rs, but would strike hard at tho licensees, many of whom were barely ranking ends meet now. Ho contended that even if hotels were closed at sis o'clock young men would go to other places for liquor, often to houses of illf^me. Mr Wright considered that too much power was given the Minister in respect to disease, but he strongly favoured the restriction of the sale, of liquor. Mr M'Combs said he was surprised at the people's representatives denying the peoplo tho right to vote on the licensing issue.

Mr Payne, hi discussing the problem of combating venereal disease, approved of tho segregation of diseased persons and a law prohibiting any save legally qualified doctors treating sufferers. On the subject of liquor licenses, the member declared himself in favour of State control, but he could see no good reason for closing hotels at six. It would, ho believer*, neither stop drinking nor increase efficiency. Ho regarded the whole proposal as- a move by the fanatical section of the prohibition party to seize upon the war as a pretext for achieving their object, and as being neither fair nor just. THE MINISTER'S REPLY. The Hon A. L. Herdman, in the course of his reply, declared that if the six o'clock proposal were carried it would mean a largo number of peoplo being thrown out of employment, resulting in a general disturbance of the labour market. Tho Minister complimented Mr Russell on his statement respecting the treatment of venereal disease, and denied that, as some members had suggested, Mr Russell had hinted at tho revival of the Contagious Diseases Act. Nothing of the sort was intended. Reverting to the liquor question, Mr Herdman expressed the belief that there would have been no suggestion of the curtailment of hotel hours had it not been for the .presence of soldiers in the cities. It was admitted, even by prohibitionists, that there had been a remarkably small amount of drunkenness among soldiers when everything was considered. It had been said that Britain was in the grip of drink, its greatest "enemy, yet Britain had placed an enormous army in tho field, had maintained the strongest fleet on tho sea, and had found money and munitions for herself and her Allies. In Britain, when the rights of an individual were taken and a public-house closed, compensation was paid, and that was the only fair and just way. (Hear,- liear and interjections.) The real object of the prohibitionists hero was to take advantage of the situation to get tho hotels closed. (Hear, hear, and ''No, no.") None of the police evidence showed the necessity for alteration" of hotel hours. Military evidence ought to carry weight. Both camp commandants favoured keeping the hotels open. He, as Minister of Police, held the view that tho police could best control drunkenness if they knew where the soldiers were. If the prohibitionists shut tiho men out of the hotels they suggested tho men should go home to bed at eight o'clock. Mr Young: You suggest that they are in the hotels all the time. Mr Herdman: You are interfering with tho soldier's rights and going to do him incalculable harm. Could it be suggested that there was lack of efficiency among soldiers or civilians because the hotels were open? Why seize upon hotels as an object for saving waste? asked Mr Herdman. To bo logical, fair and just they should also attack other sections of the community. Ho went on to contend that the introduction of the local option and prohibition issue had not conduced to the improvement of the liquor traffic in this country. It had, he believed, made for evil instead of good. He was convinced that the time would come when the legislation controlling the liquor trade in this country would be cast into the rubbish heap and some new system would bo devised based on sound and wise principles for the proper conduct of hotels and the regulation of the liquor traffic in the country. (Hear, hear.) REFERENDUM CONDEMNED. Discussing tho suggestion to relegate the decision of tho question to the people in the shapo of a referendum, the Minister said that, although the voice of the people was always to be held in the profoundest respect, he did not think it was always a wise and reliable voice. If they took a referendum at the present time, and it declared in favour of reducing the hours, he did not think it would be a wise finding. Let them remember the condition of affairs jn England at the outbreak of the war. Had the question of having compulsory training been put to the voice of the peoplo then, it would have been turned down, yet had the advocacy of Lord Roberts and other far-seeing men been adopted England would have been prepared, and war probably averted., That was an instance in which sometimes the voice of- the people was not altogether the voice of wisdom. Experience had proved' that there were sometimes wise and sagaoious men in the community whose opinions might be followed with greater respect and safety than the voice of tho majority of the people. He had always believed that it was impossible to make the population sober by Act of Parliament. If a law were passed that was unnecessarily harsh or strict, peoplo would get round it. The best way to create a spirit of temperance was not by legislation closing hotels earlier, but by trusting the young peoplo of the community and leading them to understand that a man who used drink to excess abused himself. Tho Bill was read a ■ second time without division.