THE HOSPITAL INQUIRY

Star (Christchurch), Issue 5281, 11 June 1895, Page 2

THE HOSPITAL INQUIRY

THE COMMISSION OF INQUIEY. Monday, Jxtne 10.

The sittings of the Commission appointed to inquire into the administration of the Chrietchurch Hospital were resumed before Dr Giles at the Provincial Council : Chamber at 10.30 a.m. yesterday. There I was an attendance of about sixty. Dr ; Macgregor, Inepactor of Hospitals, and Mrs Grace Neill were present. j Mr Stringer appeared as Crown Solicitor I on behalf of tbo Hospital and Charitable ' Aid Department, Mr Loughroy for the Hospital Board, Mr Joynt, with him Mr Hunt, for the united bodies and Mies : Cameron, Mr Caygill for the Progressive j Liberal Association, and Mr Maude for < the uatron of the hospital. . Aftkbnoon Sitting. Agnes M'Laron, called by Mr Caygill, deposed that she had been a probationer &b ' the hospital from March 25. 1891, until ! July 7, 1894. She went up for exaruina- j tion, partly written and partly verbal, at ! the end ot three months. Dr Ayneley ' and Sister Medlam conducted the verbal • part. Sistei* Medlam tuld her Bbc had < failed, and mußt go. She went without j any fuss. The doctor had come into the i ward about eleven one night while she was there. There was nothing peculiar in i his condition, but once when going the j rounds bo t ween nine and tea he made a noise, tripped at the door, and waa talking to tho night-nurse about drilling men, and ' about what he was going to nuke the j Board do for bim. He was much plosßanter ; than usual, and witness thought he was under the influence of dtink. She re- j marked about it to Nurse Henry and Sister j M'Bobbie. Nurse Henry reproved her for i having said so. She had seen the doctor j smoking cigarettes in the corridor, but not ! in the wards. In April, she thought, the i matron called her into the corridor and said, j " I believe your views are rather socialistic." i Witness eaid that they were, and she said, | "Well, those ideas won't do here," and [ told witness she had better not air her ■ views because the doctor and herself (the matron) liked to have them all, aB it were, under military discipline. The matron said that she liked them to stand ! when she and the doctor went into tbe room, and to be respectful to all these over them, and witness replied tbat she always was. The matron said, " All right." Nothing was said to her by the matron or doctor about her going to church. The food was nearly always the Bame. The bread waa often stale, and there was not much butter on it, and the cabbage was not properly cooked. The puddingß were very thin and watery. There waß plenty of food. To Mi Joynt : In the written examination there were six questions, and she > answered three. There bad been no com--1 plaints about her being disreepecti ful. She had no idea how the matron knew of her socialistic views. She I had discussed social questions with other j nurses j once in the pantry and onoe in Sister M'Bobbie'e bedroom. She had not i bragged of her socialistic views. One ! probationer failed when witnesß did. She i was not a socialist. The nurses asked her [ why she did not go to church, but there i was no rulo as to religious observances. The matron seemed as if she was pleased with the way witness did her work, and said she would do for an up-country hospital. She had been in • all wards | except Nob. 1 and 6. No. 1 was the men's convalescent ward. I To Mr Loughrey : Witness attended the indignation meeting about the hospital. No one came to her abont the matter afterwards, and she walked home with some of | the nurses. She did not tell them she had been asked to go to Dr Sttwart. I To Dr Murray- Aynsley : She attended fire drill. She did not remember telling anyone that she had been seat away because of her opinions, or that she knew she had done better in the examination than some of those who passed. She did < sty that Bbc was sure it was not for her work, and that the matron had been speaking to her about her views. Dr Murray- Aynaley put in the papers of the witness and the other probationers at tbe examination. To Mr Maude : The matron never spoke to her about her religious views. She waß a Baptist. ' To Mr Stringer: The nurses seemed to be amicable enough in their work. There did not seem to be two factions. To Mr Joynt : The nurses did not seem to be conspiring together to thwart the doctor or matron, and no one or two seemed to be singled out for fault-finding. To the Commissioner: Her conversations nbout socialism had no bearing on th» ■; estion of hospital discipline, and there was nothing in her views at all sub* veraive of such discipline. One of the nu; sea told Dr Stewatt she was a socialist, i acd tbe matron spoke to her next day. i Ellen Beade, called by Mr Jojnt, deposed that she was a domestic servant, and went into the hospital early in November last, and waß in five weeks. She suffered from curvature of the spine, and Dr Murray* Ayneley advised that she should have a plaster of Paris jacket. She did not have it. Drs Stewart and MurrayAynsley attended her. Cauterising was performed, and ether was administered by the matron. The operation did her no good, and she was no better when she left the hospital. After leaving, she consulted Dr Deamer, who ordered her back to the hospital. She vrent back, and he examined her there, and Bhe waß in from Feb. 26 to March 19. Dr Deamer ex-. amined her once, but Dr Murray-Aynsley did not come near her. At the end of twenty-one days she was discharged. She then told Dr Murray-Aynsley that she was no better, and she was very weak. She ' had had an order to go in a third time. She went with Mrs Garmson to see Dr 1 Murray-Aynsley, who said he could not do her any good, but could only patch her up. She ' did not go in. Bhe was only cauterised once. She still suffered very badly, and was attended by three doctors, who all said that she ought to be in the hospital under treatment. When in the hospital she waß in No. 2 ward, and the doctor ordered medicine, which the headnurse gave her. None of the medioal staff were present when the doctor operated , on her. j To Mr Caygill : The cauterising had , been done about a week After she had . gone in. ! To Dr Murray-Aynsley : She saw Dr J Stewart and Dr Murray- Ay nsley talking j together before the operation, but had not i heard what they Baid. J To Mr Loughrey : She did not get j enough food. Some of the nurses were ' kind to her. Nurse Griffiths and Nur-.e j Spring were nob very kind to her. She ;' had to make her own bed and help the j others to make theirs, and to wash up tbe ; mugs. I At 4 p.m. the Commission adjourned to ] 10.30 a.m. to-day. j

Tuesday, Juki 11.

The sittings of the commission were resumed at 10.30 a.m.

Mr Stringer appeared foe the Hospital and Charitable Aid Department, Mr Loughrey for the Hospital Board, Mr Maude for the matron of the hospital, Mr Joynt (with him Mr Hunt) for the united bodies, and Mr Caygill for the Progressive Liberal Association.

Jamea Arthur Frostick, called by Mr' Joynt, deposed that he waa a member of j the firm of Messrs Skelton, Frostick and ' Co. la January last an employe named Burfc had a paralytic stroke on the pre- 1 mises. Witness saw him at his lodgings ' about an hoar and a half afterwards ; he , was then conscious, but speaking thickly, j Witness met Dr Russell coming out. Dr i Busßell called on witness next morning, aud said the case was very much worse , than he expected. He advised Burt'a removal to the hospital, and suggested that witness should ring up the House Surgeon, and say that Dr Russell had recommended the man's admission. Wit- i ness rang up the hospital, and explained ; the case. The House Surgeon did not answer the telephone, but soon after a reply was received by telephone from him, to the effect that the hospital was not for anch cases, and that witness had no right j to 'call iv a man of Dr Russell's standing, j Witness replied that he considered Dr ■ Rueeell as well qualified as anyone else to ' speak as to the mana condition, and that ,

if the hospital was not for such cases, he did not see what it was for. The House Surgeon still refused to admit him, and suggested that witness should apply to the Charitable Aid Board. Witness replied that the man did not want charitable aid, but treatment and nursing, and that he had had nothing to do wiih calling Dr Enfisell in. The doctor advised him to see Borne other doctor, and he saw Dr Meikle, who, after treating the man tor a day or so, ordered his removal to the hospital, where be was admitted.

To Dr Murray-Aynsley : The House Surgeon ea;d the hospital was not for acute cases. Whether Dr Bosiell wm or was not a qualified practitioner wm not* he tb ought, relativti to the matter then. George Tibba, called by Mr Caygill, eaid that he had been io the hosp tal from March 25 to April 25 for influenza and the eyes. He waa in No. 5 ward, and was ordered to do the work he would expeot to do, and found >t was a pleasure to do it for the nurses. When in No. I— the "aristocracy ward " — he was asked to do washing up, which he did without assistance, la No. 1 he could not sleep on aooonnt of his bedstead being uncomfortable. He spoke to the doctor about it, and was told that it would be altered. Next day he was helped in shifting six bedsteads from the fever hospital. He noticed that two men who were shifting mattresses put them on the ground and the warder told him that they did so because they came from the fever hospital. He did not ut all objeot, but his lees were bid. He slipped and bnrt his leg, and complained to the doctor, who asked him if he had a home, and on hie saying " yes," said " you had better go out," and discharged him. He was not at all well then. He attll suffered from hi* eyee, and had pains in his body. There was not sufficient furniture in No. 5 ward, and when he brought it under the notice of the matron, he did not hare to complain after. There was not a suffioienoy of certain necessary articles. In No. 1 he had to make the same complaint as in No. 5, but Nuree Marriott told him that if he had spoken about it he would have got what he wanted. He remembered Leonie, who was turned out by the Houue Surgeon. He seemed to be very weak, walked with a stick and had a hard trouble to breathe. When Lennie was put out witness heard a fall, and saw the old gentleman on the ground. Dr Murray- Ayusloy hud put him in that position, and the doctor and two warders carried him out. Witneßß spoke to one of tho nurses, who said tbat they had dono all they could for the old ffantleman, who had a good home and would not go to it. Witness had a daughter operated on by Dr Ovenden out of the hospital. Dr Murray-Aynsley had administered ether at tho operation, and witness's daughter's employer had told him that the doctor had been paid for it. The Commissioner said he understood tbat the givtag of an»3thelice outside the hospital was admitted.

Mr Joynt said that this was contrary to the rules.

Dr Murray-Aynßley said that he had given anesthetics for ether medical men, but never for a dentist.

To Mr Loughrey : Ho had no complaint to make about tho food, and the nurses were very kind to him. He thought it was rather much to have to shift bo many bedsteads. The dootor came through the wards morning and evening, and tbe matron came through in the morning. He always found Dr Murray-Aynsley a gentleman in every Bbapo and form, and witness never saw him at all the worse for drink, though be saw him constantly. Mr Stringer : How did the "aristocracy ward " get that name P Witness : First of all it was called what my learned friend, Mr Joynb, called it— the pauper ward. (Laughter.) Some further cross-examination ensuod, but the witness did not appear to know ezaotly how the ward had acquired the name. '

Edward Smith, Lieutenant of the Fire Brigade, called by Mr Oaygill, deposed that he helped to take tho patient Jackson on an ambulance litter to tho hospital. Then took him to the corridor in front. He met the matron, he understood, who told him to take the man round to the back. They had to pick the man up and take him found to the back over some rough atoneß. He helped to take Miss Fraaer, who had been hurt in the ewitchback accident, to the hospital from her home in Boflor*B Road. He went to the front door, and saw the Batne lady again, who- told him to take her to the back. He said it was a shame to ask him to take her round, and the lady said, " All righ*, bring her in." Witneaß complained to the Ambulance Association against th 9 system. He had taken patients to the hoWftal for eight or nine years before, and had iMJdrcheßn told beforo to take patients xoiind 1? toe back. To Mr Maude: He triw tffliN^at the back was the proper way. ®To ger^o the aocidenfc ward one would have"fo pass\all along the corridor and past patients sittings about them. There was a flight of broad %

Bteps, with room to take a stretcher up at the back of the accident ward. He brought Mies Fraser to the front because there were co many stones round the back. There waa a formed road covered with loofo metal when he brought Jackson in. Bj did not complain about the roughness of the road to the lady whom he saw, and did not see the road when he brought in Mifis Fraser.

To Dr Murray- Ayneley : I made no complaint to you. To Mr Caygill : The corridor was double as wide as the etepo at the back. To Mr Maude : He did not remember the position of the bed of tho first cafe. The second one was in the third or fourth from the end. If there were no stones about and a smooth road, it would, perhaps, be more convenient to get in a p&tiont through the back.

To Mr Loughrey: The road was good and smooth now.

George Fuller, called by Mr Caygill, deposed that he helped Mr Smith to take Jaokson to the hospital. They had the patient off the carriage, and were taking him in at the front door, and when ordered to take him to the back had to take him over the rough atones.

To Mr Maude : He helped to take one of the switchback accident cased in, and went to the back. Hie father was in charge of the ambulance party. If the back road was good, and there were special beds for accidents at the end of the accident ward, the back way would be the best to take a patient in by. Henry Scrimshaw, called by Mr Joynt, deposed that ho was an undertaker, and for nine years was contractor for panper funerals at the hospital. The appointment was given by tender. He ceased to be the contractor about three years ago. The tender of the present contractor web 2b a funeral for adulte and Is 9d for ohildren. The tenders had to be put in over the counter to the Beoretary in Mb office. It. was publio tendering. The tenders were not locked up, and were left on a counter in the office. While witness was contractor he had had to do with the burial of patients who were not paupers. He had buried a good many of them. There was no fixed fee for such burialß. He generally waa rung up by the Secretary, asking what he would charge, and would tell him £f> or JES 10a, as the caße might be. The Secretary would Buggest an alteration when witnesß took in the bill. Witness took in the bill to the Secretary, who gayehim the order for the funeral and paid him. The Secretary paid him £5 10a or whatever the case might be. Witness generally put on £1 extra for commission for the Secretary, at the Secretary's request. He added it to the bill; if his charge was £5 10a, the bill would show £& 10b. Witness used to give Mr Miller tho bill with a blank for the price. This was filled up by witness, at Mr Miller's BHT^eation, when he got the money. Sometimes JB7 or £7 10s was filled in. Witness never got more than JBS or JBS 10s, and all above that the secretary retained for himself. That occurred very frequently. Witness had no lint of such, funerals. He buried a man whose name, he believed, was Smyth, in December, 1892. Mr Miller asked witness what he. would charge, go as to include the come* tery fees, and Baid ho was a poor man. Witness charged £5 or £a 10s. Afterwards wont to the cemetery, where the sexton told him there was some trouble, about thft

fees. The bill was made out for £6 10* cr £7. Witness then went and saw 3Mr Miller, who- gave him a pound to pay the fees. Witness gave the sexton the pound, and the eexton gave the relatives the receipt. The relatives had complained. Ha afterwards saw Mr Miller, who gave him 10s, and said, " There, you have had tbe lot on Smyth's funeral. I'll -wipe my hands on having anything to do with funerals." He never sent witness i

another order. Witness remembered the fnnerul of a man named Pegley, before Smyth's. Witness charged ,£5 10a, and Mr Miller kept a pound. Believed that Mr Steel, of Langdon and St. el, paid it. The bill produced had witness' heading, but the wri tti er was not his. He dared t>ay it |

was all right* It was for JG6 10s, and on that witneoß received J65 10s.

Mr Miller used to take the orders foi funerals, and witness to oarry them out, fie had nothing to do with the funerala 'Since Smyth's. Ha had no show aftet that. He could hardly remember charging £7 for burying a man named William -Johnson ia 1890. He remembered Robert Folej, who died on Oct. 8, 1889. His charge waß £5 or £5 10s, nnd the bill was made out for £7, he believed. Witness had had no work for the hospital since Smyth's. About two or three years ■ago he received an order from a Mrs Smith to bury her hueband, who had died in the hospital. He went to the hoepital, and' when he had measured too body asked Mr Miller for the certificate. Mr Miller turned 88 white as death, ran to the telephone, and rang up Mr Barrell, who then had the contract, and told him to stop going oa with Smith's fnneral. Me Miller told witness that Smith had only £5, but witneashad learned from the agent of the Public Trustee that Mr Miller had paid in j .£25 on Smith's account. When witness went to Mr Lummis,the paint r. about the coffin plate, he found that Mr Barroll wrb also having a plate for Smith painted there. WitneßS did the job, and was paid by the Public Trustee. It was a usual thing for witness to give the secretary jei over the joba he sent him. If he had not done so ha would never have got any work at all.

To Mr Loughrey : Witness tendered against Barrell for the pauper funerals. His tender waa 2a each. His price during the nine years he had the contract waa 7a 6d, and he lost 10s over every job. Witness kept books, but thoy would only show what he had got himself. Most of these caseß name from the country, and he could not trace them. His books

would enow all the people he buried, and the charge cf £5 or £S 10a would appear; bat each cases were not discriminated from ordinary burials outside the hospital. The pauper burials would ftnnpar. Hs would hrincr his hooka to tho

inquiry. He charged more than .£5 10$ in the bill several times. He bad given as much as £3 to the Eecretnry. That was wh9n he had an order to bury an officer of

the Union Steamship Company. He got £12 and gave Mr Miller £3. For Pegley'a funeral he charged JB6 10a, and Mr Miller : gave him , either £5 or £5 10s. He bad never spoken to Mr Hamilton, the Public Trustee, about Parley's matter. He filled up the blent accounts at the hospital. He wrote the account for Foley'd funeral at home, and filled in the £7 at the hospital. He would not swear, however, that figures and everything eke were nob written at the same time. He put the figures, £7, at the same time he got paid. He would receive payment at the hospital. It; was flix years ago, and. he could not remember all these little things. IB c was speaking as to the general practice. la another account {produced} he supposed the figure, £7, must have been put ia when he was paid. He could not remember having mentioned to any member of the Board the arrangement between Mr Miller and himself as to funerals. He had seen Mr Hunt about it. He had not told or seen anyone else. :■ ■ To the Commissioner: Tenders were called once a year, and witness had tendered two or three times. To Mr Miller : He did not remember the. whole circumstances of the case in Pegley'a funeral. He thought Mr Miller had a pretty good cheek to aßkhiin if h8 had had anything to do with the '''severed hand" business. He had nothing to do with it, and could not see why he should be asked about it. He did not know whether Langdon and Steel buried Pegley j Mr Miller took the order. Witness, did not write the bill for Pegley, and did not remember Mr Miller asking him to see Langdon and Stoel about it, nor paying he would not go to them, beoause there was too much of the " severed hand " buainesa about it. Mr Miller did not pay him £6 10s, but £5 or JES 10a, tho Bame as with many others.

ToMrJoynt: Witneas took the pauper funerals at a very low figure, in order to be able to get the funerals of patients who were cot paupers. He never filled up the whole bill at the hospital, but might have done bo at the the shop sometimes. 'The amount which he was to receive was according to arrangement with Mr Miller. He could not remember whether he might not have filled in the amounts at the hospital. The Commissioner said that in the bills pat in the amounts Beemed to have been written at the Bam e time as the rest of the bill. Witnesß (to Mr Joynt): He could not remember why, in the bill made out to «*C. Smith, Esq.," the date in the heading was Oct. 11, 1889, and that on the stamp " 11/9/89." He had tendered every year for the funerals since 1892, and hftd always been 6d too high. He had contracted for pauper funerals before Mr Miller became secretary, and had not charged on the basis of a commission for the secretary before he came. He had contracted under Mr Miller for six or seven yeara. , . The Commissioner remarked that m one o£ the bills the figures looked as if they might have been written at a different time. The billß, on the face of them, would not show that they were all written at the same time. To Mr Loughrey : Mr Miller generally naid him for the funerals of patients. He Sid not give Mr Miller anything on funeraU which the friends of patients Mr Lougbrey asked that Mr Sorim3haw might bo ordered to produce his books. Mr Scrimshaw said he would do so. James Lennie, called by Mr Caygill, deposed that he had been a patient in the hospital abont eleven days in March last, on account of a paralytic stroke. He had been ordered to go in by a doctor. Dr Murray-Aynsley ordered him to go out. This was late, after dinner, and the doctcr told him to go at once. About an hour afterwards the doctor and the waidsman, "Whitelaw, put him out of the hospital into a cab. Witness was lying on a sofa, and asked them not to take him, as he had no nlace to go, for he was pretty well certain his wife would be away. They would not liaten to him. He told Whitelaw this when he was in the cab. They pulled him off the Bofa, but he could not Bay whether or not he fell on the floor. They trailed him out; he walked as wall as he could The cab drove to the Charitable Aid office at witness's request, and then went to his houHe, 13, Tuam Street. Whitelaw knocked at the door twice. Whitelaw said, " We must get him out of the cab " and Whitelaw and the cabman walled him out of the cab. The Bkin was acrapea off his hand against the door of the cab. Witness got .his feet against the vloor co that they co aid n!t get him out. Whitelaw called on two men for assistance, and they got bim out and left him on the footpath. The cab then drove away. No one was m the house at the time. He waited for about three-quarters of an hoar. Whitelaw went to one of the neighbours' houeeu before he went away. A neighbour who had been going to the hoßpital to see witness afterwards came to him. To Dr Murray- Aynsley : Witness had been sent in by Dr Murdoch, aa he had had two fits. He knew that he hod been afflicted for some years, but not like he waa now— semi-paralysed and unable to uneak plainly. The first stroke he had was in 1894 — about the middle of the ye ar That waa the first time he went into the hospital. When the House Suegeon told him to go home he said he dtd

not want to go back to the wife. The doctor did not tell him that Mr Norns had made arrangements for him. Elizabeth Greig, called by Mr Caygill, deposed that Bhe had been a patient in the hospital in January laßt for nine days m Nos. 4 and 2 wards. The food was very gocd, except the soup, which had no substance in it. She was under Nurse Hyde, and had no fault to find with the nurses. Sbe had a son in the hospital two years ago. He died there in February, 1893. ■

; She got a certificate of his death from Dr Murray- Aynsley, who demanded a guinea. Her husband pjtid it to the doctor. H*r huaband had got a certificate from the Registrar's Office for 2a 6d, but the insurance office would not take it. j

To Dr Murray-Ayneley : She did not know whether the certificate was a special certificate for insurance.

vviiii&m ureig, nuaoaau vi >"» «»eu witness, deposed that he paid Dr MurrayAynsloy a guinea for the certificate, which waa one required for life insurance. The doctor did not troat him quite civilly at the firat, but did bo after he had got the guinea. To Dr Murray- Aynsley : The certificate waß on a form which te got from the insurance office. He had offered to get a certificate from the Registrar's office, but the insurance people said it would nob doi ; that they muat ha7e a special certificate j f«/MV> fit. A.^ n \-~- !

Kobert Green, called by Mr C&ygill, deposed I'bat he waa taken to the hospital on Dee. 16 lint, on account of an injury to Mb leg through a bicycle accident. He was attended by Dr Murray- Ayneley. His leg must have beau, broken at the time. It waa bandaged,, and some lint and ointment put on it, and be was discharged in eight days. A week after his discharge witness sent for Dr Irving, as be thought hia leg was broken. Dr Irving j said that the leg was broken. . Witness had cot been treated at the hospital fox a broken leg 1 , bat for a wound. The bones were not displaced. Dr Irving put splints on, and witness was under his treatment for three weeks. The bones of the shin were simply cracked.

To Dc Murray-Ayasley : WitneßS die not want tt> go to the hospital, and was anxious to go home. He believed thai when he wad discharged Dr MurrayAynsley told him to sand for hiß own doctor. . To Mr Maude : Witness waa brought in at the back entrance, and suffered no inconvenience thereby. The Commissioner 6aid that he would take it for granted, in tho absence of furfcher evidence, that since the road had been made smooth the back entrance was the best. To Mr Loughrey : Tho food at the hospital was not; what he had boon accustomed to get:, but it waa &9 good as could be expected in a public institution. He was treated with proper care, and never saw the doctor drunk or smoking in tho warda. He did nob see the doctor come round night and morning.

AS'TSSNOON HITTINO. Richard Brown, chi«? wardsman and dresser at the hospital, (called by Mr Joynt), deposed that he had been twentythree years in the hospital in hia present position. Aocorcing to the by-lawa he had to attend all operations. No other male attendants bat he and the doctor were obliged to attend operations. The nurses attended them, and. sometimes they attended at operations on malea. The nurses did not attend delicate operations if the warder was able to do so. The nurse in charge of the ward from which the oasa operated on came was always there. The junior nurses attended certain operations on malea. Young nurses used to have to assist at operations oa males atwhich they had to hold the limba of the patient. Ii; had been common for probationers to attend operations of a delicate oharacter on j males. That had been going on for the last two years, and had been stopped in a j great measure since the letter of "Tongariro" appeared* Ib was Btppped now where it ,was possible to avoid .it. The operations at which the probationers had to bo present were certainly not such as young women should be present at. They could learn nothing whatever from : them. Before Dr Murray-Aynsley became j house-surgeon the male" attendants only" mcd to attend these operations. The former matron, Misb Steel, never stopped at an operation of that kind. Young women attended and assisted at operations on females. These were sometimes of a delicate oharacter, He knew that an order had been issued requiring all patients, except; Catholics, to attend the service of the Church of England. It was stuck up in the kitchen. It said that patients not attending the church held in the wards would have their passes stopped. There was only one service held in the hospital, the Church of England service, so the notice mußt refer to that. The notice was Bigned by Miss Maude. He had not noticed the House Surgeon being arbitrary with patients. He bad heard the nurses talking about the doctor having ordered water to be squirted in children's facaa. He had heard the House Surgeon order a patient in No. 6 to be pat on bread and water because he waa talking. He had heard complaints about the food from the nurses, and had observed that the patients' food was not satisfactory. That mostly referred to the cooking. The meat had been very good for sixteen or eighteen months. Half the food was destroyed in the cooking. It was mostly under-cooked. There was a female cook, who had been there six or seven months. They shifted the cook very often. He had time after time seen the food Bent back from the wards and from nurses' table. That happened only three or four days ago. The fish was very often bad — tainted - before it was cooked. The soup was nob bad as a rule;, it was not too thick. There had never been any eggs in the puddings up to the last ten ortwelve days. Witness was not a cook, but he would not like to say that Baffron was a good substitute for eggs. Up to the last week, when all had been changed, he dined with the head nurses. Whitelaw was very often there. The food at the table had been very bad for a long time past. It was not properly cooked for the last six or eight months. Sometimes raw, sometimes burned up. The food was oE fair quality, except the fish. The nurses had repeatedly complained to the matron, but there was no improvement. There waa not much variety in the food till " Tongariro's " letter appeared, ainco which ib had been better. For five or sis weeks there was no meat but mutton, except that sometimes there was cold beef, which had been cooked apparently on the previous day, for another table. The doctor and matron did not, np till a week ago, attend the nurssß* table to inspect it. Since the Nurses' Home had been opened, witness and two other wardamen dined together. The food was a bit better. The bad fish bad continued, on and off, till nine or ten days ago. He and the nurses had had to fiend out and get sardines for themaelves, because they could not eat the meat. He had seen the matron come in to hear the complaints! As to whether the House Surgeon sent notice to the staff of operators depended whether they were major or minor. As a rule the House Surgeon did minor operations himself with witness's assistance. Notice was given to the staff of major operations, and generally speaking there was a consultation over them. Sometimes the consultation might be omitted by a slip. Eye operations were always done by Dr Manning. Witness did not think there was any consultation about them. The matron uaually administered ance9thetica, and it sometimes happened that the patient was under the anaesthetic for. a long time. The longest time he had seen a patient kept under ether or chloroform by the matron was, perhaps, threequarters of an hour. Mies Steel used sometimes to administer anaesthetics. It had been tho practice for the matron to do this for about (our years. Before that a medical man always did it. Minor operations by the House Surgeon were begun about 9 a.m., and major operations about ILK, Witness did the post-mortema under the direction of the Houbo Surgeon, who sometimes gave lectures on them to the probationers and

I nursea. Other doctors were seldom pre« sent *t post-roortema. They only attended when tber* was something interesting. Poat-mortema for the nurses were generally held afc 2 p.m., and others early in the morning. When the coroner ordered a post-mortem the House Surgeon did it, and did not get paid for it. The coroner did noi; order any other doctor to do it. Witness remembered a young

woman named Kennelly, who had beea Bent from Hawarden, be'ng refused admission one night. She came abdht 8 p.m. eight or nine months

! ago. He did not know of any reason why aho should have been turned away. Thero were three bedß available in No. 2 ward. It came out at the inquest that there were beds available, and witness heard the matron tell Sister Griffiths that it was h e who hud told the patient's friendß of it j but he bad not. He was standing inside the door of hia room when ho hoard this. It was often necessary to adusinieter ; otiumlants to patients at night when the dootor ordered it. Unleea they were served out in the daytime they could

not be got; without Banding for Mr Miller, who lived half a mile front the hospital, j and who locked them np and took the | keye. Witness had known the nursea to i have a glus3 of brandy or a little of the j whiskey left; them At night. Had heard the nuraea talking about patients wanting stimulants at night, and something aboub one having died for

want of thorn. Trout was sometimes Bent to the hoapital for the patients. Witness hid beard of one case j in which the patients did not get the !

trout. Remembered a foreigner named j Gutcber, who left tho hospital about three weeks ago, asking the House Surgeon to t send for Dra Prins and Stewart, the con- : suiting surgeons. The House Surgeon ex- j plained that he could not, unless the doctor j in charge of the ca*t>, Dr Meare?, consented. The consulting physician and surgeon were i very seldom consulted, only once iv tho. laat biz or seven years. There was one j special consulting surgeon and one c>n- ■ suiting physician, elected from doctora who bad served on the honorary staff for tea years. To the Commissioner : The consulting surgeon and physician did nofc get notice of operations. j ToMrJoyntj He Relieved Green went; out of hia own accord. Drawing teeth j ousfht not to bo recorded as operations, and witness had not seen the operation book for three years. A j dentist came there every Tuesday morn- j ing to draw teeth. Sometimes the patients j came in the night before to be prepared I for the ansesthetic. The House Surgeon j went through the w&rda every morning, | and, witne.-B believed, every evening. Wit- j ncsa was not always there in the evening. He ' had seen the House Surgeon go through the wards at all times of the day. Witness attended church on Sunday morning out- | side the hospital. I

To Mr Cajgill : Gutcher'e leg got very bad, and Dr Meares became ill. Gutcher got frightened, and Dr Nodwill took the case in hand till Dr Meares got better. Dr Meares had performed an operation on Qutchcr. He would consider the operation for fistula a major operation. The Houbs Surgeon bad performed such operations before Dr Murray-Aynsley came. Some of the nurses had wbab they called a stock bottle for stimulants at night. It was not possible to get stimulants nt night, except for that ; save from Mr Miller. A boy named Kinnenmouth was admitted with a fracture and dislocated elbow. He .was p'ifc under chloroform in order to reduce the dislocation.

To Mr Loughrey : •' Tongariro'a " letter had boen written about; three months ago, md although the food had been better since, it was sometimes bad still. He had aot complained himself, as it was not hie place to do' so, and there was no need to do so when the matron was brought in to see the meat. He did aot know who wrote " Tongatiro'a " letter. Fhe man who was put on bread and water for talking was a stupid kind^ of man. Witness did not know that that order had been rescinded, He did not know that the natron had a atock of bottle of stimulants, or that the office boy. had a key of Mr Miller's room; He had known Mr KilleT~fco-I>ff~Bent for For stimulants. To Dr Murray- Aynsley : A Clover's srutch had been in the hospital for the last five or e\x weeks. .It obviated the need for holding the legs during an operation. Dr Stewart wag present when khe bread and water was ordered, and made no objection. Witness had often administered anaesthetics. Witness saw the House Surgeon go to the telephone and speak to Mrs Bo wan when Ellen Kennelly came in. There were no spare beds in No, 4 ward then. Ncs. 1 and 2 had

been closed for alterations about two years before, and instructions had been given not to pat any major operation cases in them. At one time the Houae Surgeon used to send round notice of consultations to all the members of the Btaff. He remembered Dr Townend, as the consulting physician, to attend on one occasion, and Dr Prins had attended once as consulting Burgeom When one Burgeon was unwell the other ' always took up his work. The House Surgeon always told witnes3 where he was going when he went out at night. He had never seen the Houae Surgeon drunk or smoking in the wards. When Montague came in witness reported that he had been badly bruised, but that there was no use for the doctor to Bee him at once. Montague stayed in two days, and went out because he eaid he could not get enough to eat. He had not had eolid food because he had pains in the abdomen. To Mr Maude: He could not say whether the order about attedding church was written in pencil or ink or on what kind of paper it waa written. It was only up for a few days. He could not remember the exact wording. He did not know whether any patients had had their passes stopped for not having attended church. Many patientß had had their passes refuHed without any reason being given. To the Commissioner: There was no reference to tha nurses in the notice. He did not think \ hat the matron had pub it up there, but that some of the nursed had done so after they read it. To Mr Maude : The food was mutton and mutton, and there waß constantly one dish they used to call " Terrible jelly." They got corned beef the day after "Tongariro'a " letter. He believed the Chrißtinas dinner consisted of mutton. To Mr Stringer: Since Dr MurrayAynsley had been there the nurses had worked very harmoniously. To Mr Joynt: Witness had seen Clover's crutch used forty years ago, but it had not been introduced into the hospital until after " Tongariro'tj " letter. It was not dear ; it cost about £2. To Mr Loughrey : Witnesa had seen the witness O'Neill in the Btreet, but did not keep his company. To the Commissioner : O'Neill might have Baid something after he went out about the doctor having been drunk, but he could not allow a patient to speak to him aboub such a thing- in the hospital. He had to attend to certain patients and do as he was told, but bad nothing to do with the management of the wards.