Supreme Court.z

Star (Christchurch), Issue 658, 2 July 1870, Page 3

Supreme Court.z

Friday, Jult l. - . j (Before Mr Justice Gresson.) His Honor sat in the Court Chambers at 11 o'clock, thie morning. caw practitioners' act and rb JOHN x'gregob, accountant. . In tbis case, a conditional order was obtained'on Tuesday last,: at the instance of the Law Society of Canterbury, calling on Mr M'Gregor to show cause why he should not be committed to Her Majesty's gaol, Lyttelton, for a contravention of the above Act ; .in other words, for having acted as a solicitor in ceitain bankruptcy proceedings. ■>-■■* Cause was ;to be shewn to-day, and Mr M'Gregor had filed an affidavit, denying that he had prepared legal documents in re . Thomas Mackay, a bankrupt. ." Mr Duncan now moved, on behalf of the Law Society of Canterbury, for the committal of Mr M'Gregor to prson. t His Honor; I apprehend that the proper ■course for jrou to pursue will be to flleinterrogatbries. It seems to me that it would ..be very arbitrary to commit a person- to prison for contempt where there is oath . against oath. .. . • Miv Duncan : M'Gregor is now in Court, and to file interrogatories would not be necess ary bo far as the practice goes. He is under ..examination n^w. - „-■-' "y^Bis Honor : Oh, no ; he is not under ex- :-' ainihation. I have not had occasion to look 5 into the matter before, but I am not aware Yftbat it is the practice of the -Court, upon a Amotion for attachment upon disputed facts, ||to examine the person to be attached, viva Ws Mr. Duncan : If he were not in Court, it pinight be different. \ His Honor: I don't find any practice of that sort in.the books. Mr Duncan : I will read a passage from "Hawkins' Fees of the Crown." [Read."] In consequence of the rule served upon Mr •M'Gregor. he appears before the Court, and although he files an affidavit contradictory tb a certain extent to that filed by Mackay, he ie here to undergo an examination. It is a ■question of fact. * His Honor : But still it is a question also ; upon which there must be a settled practice, I think, and I would not at this moment compel Mr M'Gregor to be examined viva i, voce without ascertaining whether it was in conformity with the practice. lam not aware Of even having Been it done, or of hearing that it has been done. Mr Duncan : Then perhaps your Honor would adjourn this matter until a future day ? "His Honor : I have no objection. Possibly, if Mr M'Gregor desired to be examined viva voce, I would take tbe examination now ; but my impression now is, that you should file interrogatories, and then decide the question of fact. Mr Duncan : I was under the impression that if he had not appeared, that that would have been the proper course, but as he has appeared, and being now before the Court, the usual course, I. take it, would be to examine him. His Honor : If he chooses to allow himself to be examined, and abide the result, I bave no objection to take the examination now, but 1 would not compel him to be examined under the circumstances. [To Mr M'Gregor.] Do you desire to be examined now viva voce rather than put interrogatories ? Mr M'Gregor :- 1 am here to be examined, your Honor. I will simply go by my affidavit; that is all I will go by. John M'Gregor was then' sworn and examined by Mr Duncan. . You are acquainted with Thomas Mackay, ■cab-driver ? . .„ . I know the party, You were employed by him for a certain purpose in reference to his bankruptcy ? I was employed by him as an accountant to prepare his schedules or any statements of accounts. What remuneration were you to get for •doing so ? About £3, 1 believe was the amount. There was no amount of remuneration specified exactly. , His Honor : Then how db you say you believe it was about £3 ? Mr Duncan (to witness) : Just state what arrangement was made between you. Simply this : That if I was employed by him as accountant, and his work took me a certain time to do it, I would do it for. a ceitain amount. After Mackay stated what would be required to be done, I told him that it would cost about £3. I didn't state the sum positively. Now, what did you undertake to do for £3? I undertook, as I have stated just how, to prepare a copy of bis schedules and statement of accounts. To pass him through the Bankruptcy Court ■■.'■'.' I had nothing to do with that. Simply to prepare his accounts. That is all I agreed to do. '... ' . What did you prepare? Concerning his accounts ? Just what did you prepare ? Well, I believe I examined the schedule that was' filed in court in his behalf, in order to make copies of it, and I believe I entered into a rough draft of the statement of his affairs. His Honor: Who was it prepared the schedule? - - -I have no knowledge. Mr. Duncan: Did you prepare anything for him in reference to this jE3? I prepared a rough draft of the amended schedule, and a rough copy of the state of his affairs, statement of accounts, or receipts rand-expenditure. * . Was it a copy of the original schedule? That I cannot swear. From what did you prepare them ? As regards the schedule, from what I saw of it in the court; as regards the statement of affairs, from information I received from Mackay.

What else did you do f Nothing else. Hw_Honor: Are you sure you did nothing else ? I did nothing else concerning his affairs in bankruptcy beyond what I have stated. Mr Dunoan : Did you instruct anybody to do anything else ? I am not sure that I did. Did you prepare exhibit C (Mackay's petition) ? I B wear I did not. Did you enable anyone to prepare it ? I gave no assistance whatever to prepare it at all. Did you prepare exhibit D (notice paper for adjudication) ? No; the same as the other. His Honor: Did you give any assistance to prepare it? No, your Honor. Mr Duncan : Did you give these documents or either of them to Mackay ? I am not aware of doing so. Now just think. I cannot state whether I did or not. Hiß Honor : Can you not recollect ? Mr Duncan : Just think. I Vant to get the facts. '' I am giving you the facts. lam not aware that I gave them or either of them to Mackay. I was asked to prepare them, and I refused. His Honor : Are you sure of that ? - Positive, your Honor. '- . H. s Honor : By whom were you asked ? By Mackay. Mr Duncan : Did you see these documents before they were filed ? That I cannot swear to. Have you any doubt about it ? His Honor : What is your belief upon the point ? I saw a document like that. Mr Duncan : In the same handwriting ? I cannot say it was the same handwriting. I believe I saw similar handwriting. His Honor: Of course you might have seen similar handwriting, but did you see that document ? I could not swear to that, your Honor. Mr Duncan : Do you know whose handwriting it is ? I don't. I didn't see the papers prepared' and I don't know whose handwriting it is. Did you receive any money from Mackay? I believe I received 15s in two or three instalments when I met him from time to time to get information from bim. I cannot state the exact amount, but I think that is it. What information did you get from bim ? Concerning his affairs ? Just state what information you got. I believe I met him about 20 times, and was at last disgusted with him. Each time was with reference to his statement of affairs. Each time was in reference to his passing through the Court ? With reference to his statement of affairs. Now, M'Gregor, be careful in reference to these exhibits C. and D. Did you not give these to Mackay ? I have mentioned that already ; that I cannot swear. His Honor : Don't hurry ; take as long as you like to consider your answer. I cannot give any further answer. Mr Duncan : What is that answer ? I am not aware of having given them to Mackay ; I have no knowledge of them. I swear I have no knowledge of the two documents produced. I did no more tban assist him in his schedule' and statement of affairs. I was asked to prepare legal documents, and refused to do it. His Honor : Did you assign any reason for refusing to prepare the legal documents ? I believe I stated to Mackay that it was contrary to law, and I would have the solicitors down on me. I believe these are the words I said. Mr Duncan said he had no more questions to ask. His Honor : What do you propose doing ? Mr Duncan : I shall examine Mackay. Thomas Mackay was then sworn, and examined by Mr Duncan. Tou are a cabdriver in Christchurch ? Yes. You filed certain documents in this Court, in bankruptcy ? Yes ; I went through the Court. Did you employ any person ? I didn't exactly employ him (meaning M'Gregor). I hadn't the means of employing anyone. Do you know John M'Gregor ? I do. Did you speak to M'Gregor in reference to your affairs ? Yes ; a man of the name of Gosnell told me to go to him. What took place between you and M'Gregor ? I asked M'Gregor would he do some papers for me going through the Court. He said he: would make that all right for me. Sol asked bim how much he would charge. He said " Oh, I will not charge you much the first •go ' ; I would not be hard on you," or something like that. He told me to meet him at such a time. At the first interview he said I would have to give him something. . How much ? I think £1 or 25s ; something about that. I paid him 5s or 6s, I will not be certain which. I had to borrow the money. Did he fix to meet you on a certain night? Yes. ■'■'■-'...' Did, you meet him ? Yes, but I had no money. Where? At tbe City Hotel. He showed me an old copy that he bad, and said be would have to write it like that. I said "All right." I don't know whether I gave him any money that night. Did yon tell him what to do ? He told me he would write the papers out, and we separated. When did you meet him again ? I cannot exactly say. He had some of the papers written out then.

-■ : ,"-.■ . ■ — — — : — ; T~ His Honor: Do you know how many papers? I cannot say— one or two. He read them over to me. Mr Duncan : Did you see them? Yes. Look at these well. Are these the documents you got from him ? I cannot swear. They were something like. I didn't see him write them. But are these (C. and D.) the papers you got from him ? Yes ; I am almost certaiß of it. Is that your signature ? Yes. And that is the document you swore before the Registrar ? Yes. And that is the one McGregor gave you? Yes ; I am quite certain of it. His Honor ; Did you sign it in Mr Willeocks' presence ? Yes, your Honor. Mr Duncan : Did you get this document (D) from him at the same time ? I am not quite sure. What did you do with the documents you got from him ? I left them with Mr Davis, Deputy Registrar here. Now, what did you pay M'Gregor in all ? I cannot exactly say ; some shillings now and again. About how much ? Did you pay him anything for these documents ? I believe I paid, him between 12s and 15s altogether. His Honor : Was it for those documents that Mr Duncan has just been showing you that you paid him ? I believe it was. He said he would get an order for me. What kind of order 1 V,. An order of the Court. He had one, and he showed it to me, saying be would get mej one like that. '-_>, ', j Now, what about the accountar-the state-, ment of your assets and liabilities'? Did he make that out ? ( ( - j I made it out first in a "ltind of way myself when I was in Lyttelton gaol. Who ultimately made them out for you ? Mr Davis corrected them for me; he copied them, and made them look better. Did M'Gregor make them out ? Not that I know. I don't think he did anything with them; lam not sure. My wife brought them up here to Mr Davis. I don't think _ M'Gregor did anything with them../ :g | His Honor : You have not aßked him Mr Duncan, as to the statement made by M'Gregor, that he refused to prepare legal documents; telling him it was contrary to law, and that he would have the solicitors down on him. Mr Duncan: Did M'Gregor make any statement to you, refusing to carry you through the Court ?• No. His Honor; Are you sure of that ? He said he. would write out the papers for me. His Honor: What papers ? Do you mean papers to carry you through the Court ? Yes. He never aaid it was contrary to law, and that he would have the solicitors down on him. Bichard Davis (Deputy-Registrar): I remember Thomas Mackay passing through the Court. He filed certain documents. The list of creditors and statement of property produced are in . my handwriting. I made them out from papers brought by Mrs Mackay. Mackay was then in gaol. The papers she brought me were so informal, that I wrote out the papers produced. Mr Duncan said he had now to apply for a committal. His Honor: Well, lam placed in a difficulty. Do you wish to say anything, Mr M'Gregor? Mr M'Gregor : Nothing further, your Honor, than that I have stated the truth. His Honor: There is bath against oath, and whatever may be tha suspicions of the CourtMr Duncan: The weight of evidence is certainly against the testimony of M'Gregor. He swears that the only work he did was in reference to the accounts. We have the evidence of ' Mackay that he prepared them himself in gaol, and Mr Davis states that they were so informal that he wrote out the papers. His Honor: Even although the Court may think that possibly a jury might arrive at a conclusion satisfactory to their own minds, it is difficult for me, sitting here, to act in a question of liberty where there is oath against oath. m^m Mr Duncan : The action of the Lawf Society has arisen from a desire to check? practices of this nature. ! . His Honor: And- a very proper desire. I think I. suggested it here. Mr Duncan: It shonld be shown to Mr M'Gregor as well as others that they cannot prepare legal documents. His Honor: I think it quite right that these proceedings should have that effect, but the Court is bound to be very careful in what it does in a case of this kind, and not act as a jury would probably act. I don't say that you nave not made out a case to a certain extent, but not to a sufficient extent to warrant a committal. I hope, however, that this will be a sufficient caution to persons who are not enrolled solicitors of the Court. Mr M'Gregor said he might state, for the information of the Court and the Law Society, that he had declined from time to time to interfere w;th legal documents. His Honor: The reverse of that is sworn by Mr Mackay. His oath is against yours. Your evidence is in conflict, and it would be open to the Law Society, if anything is found to corroborate Mackay, to take you before the magistrate, and have you com mitted for perjury. No rule ; nothing as to costs. i The Court then rose.