HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Timaru Herald, Volume XLII, Issue 3427, 22 September 1885, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House met at 10 a.m. CONFEBENCB OS LAND BILL. The Hon. Mr Kichardson stated that the Conference on the Land Bill had not yet reported. He asked for an adjournment till 10.30 a.m., and tho House resumed at that hour. REPLIES TO QUESTION 3. Eeplying to Mr G-. F. Richardson, if the Government will instruct their auditors to lay informations m cases of misappropriation of funds by local bodies, tho Hon. Mr Stout said that on all matters of local government the ratepayers should look after their own interests, but the Government would direct the Auditor-General to take steps m special cases. Replying to Mi 1 Boss, if tho Government will causo enquiry to bo made into the circumstances under which a Chinese inmate of the Seacliff Asylum met his death at the bands of a patient who, it was stated, has for many years been a dangerous lunatic, tho Hon. Mr Tole said an enquiry would be made into the matter. Replying to Mr Or. F. Bichardson, if the Government will consider tho desirability of appointing a Select Committee next session for the purpose of considering all Bills and matters affecting local government, the Hon. Mr Stout said the best plan would be to appoint a Special Committee instead of a Select Committee, to consider this question, and tho Government would consider that conrse. Replying to Mr Beetham, if the Govorment will take into consideration the ud vLsability of appointing a Boyal Commission for the purpose of enquiring into the position of all local bodies m the colony, so that the report may be presented to the Legislature m time to assist members of both branches of the Legislature m coming to a satisfactory decision on the question of local government during the session of next Parliament, the Hon. Mr Stout said tho matter would rcceivo consideration. Replying to Mr Hobbs, the Hon. Mr Stout said members of the Legislative Council did not receive honorariums when absent from the Council. AGBICCLTTFHAL ASD I'ASTOKAL SOCIETIES BILL. The Hon. Mr Stout moved tho second reading of the Agricultural and Pastoral Societies Act 1677 Amendment Bill, ne said tho Bill was to cnablo those Societies to borrow money for building grand stands, pens, and other buildings necessary, and also for buying other lands. Only one Society had applied for the Bill to be brought down. Tho motion v,an agreed to, and the Bill waa committed, read a third tiT.o, and passed. MINES ACT. Tlie Hon. Mr Larnach moved that tho amendments made by the Conference m tho Mines Act Amendment Bill be agreed to. Mr Scddon asked whether tho Minister accepted tbo refusal of tho Council to reduce the fee for miners' rights. Tho Hon. Mr Larnach said ho preferred to accept it rather than lose the Bill. Mr Seddon moved that the amendments be disagreed with, and a fresh Conference appointed. The Hon. Mr Stout opposed tho amendmont, contending that there woro other important provisions m the Bill which it was deairablo should become law. Mr Forgus, Mr Pyke, nnd Mr Guinness supported Mr Soddon'a amendment. 'Xbe Hon. Sir Julius Yogel hoped the amendment would not be pressed as it would jeopardise a useful Bill. The amendment wns lost by 28 to 25. | Mr Scobio Mackenzie moved the adjournment of the debate. Aftor some diacuaiion the motion for tho adjournment was lost, and the original inotioD carried by 31 to 21. THE LAXD DILL. Tho Hon. Mr Stout said m consequence of the amendments inado m tho Land Bill requiring the Bill to bo reprinted, it was found impossible that tho prorogation could take place to-day. The Government proposod the prorogation for to-morrow at 2.30 p.m. It was not intended to proceed with any other business to-morrow, as it wns hoped all business would bo concluded to-night. CUSTOMS TAIIIPP BILL. Tlio Hon. Sir Julius Vogol introduced as a matter of urgency the Customs Tariff Intorprct«tion Bill, tho subject of which, ho expluined, wo» that the market tuluo on cotton and drees prints should not exceed 6d per yard.

Major Atkinson said he thought the Bill was a very reasonable one. The motion was agreed to, and tho Bill was committed, read a third time, and passed. EETtTBK. Mr Hobbs moved for a return of the names of nil Members of the Legislative Council from whose honorariums deductions have been made for 1884-5. Tho Hon. Sir Julius Yogel objected to the motion, and said it was very undesirable it should be made without uotico. Ho movod the previous question. Major Atkinson said he was surprised at the Treasurer's action. It wns currently rumored, although he did not believo it, that certain members of the other Chamber had drawn moro honorarium than they were entitled to, and ho thought m fairness to thoso lion, gentlemen that tho return should bo prepared. The Hon. Sir Julius Yogel said if possible he would hare the retnrn prepared, but he thought it improper to put it on the records of the House. After some debute Sir Julius Yogel withdrew his amendment, jnying if the resolution were passed he hoped it would be amended so as to take any special sting out of it by inserting tho names of members of the lower House also. Mr Macandrew moved after tho words "members of the Legislative Council" to insert " and members of the House of Representatives." Mr Forgus moved as a further amendment " and the number of clays on which each member attended m each session." The Hon. Mr Stout hoped this amendment would not bo pressed, as they hud no right to control tbo actions of the other Chamber. The Hon. Sir Julius A'bgcl said if the addition wore carried it would prevent tho return being prepared this seision. Mr Fergus' amendment was then also put and carried by 42 to 14. Mr O'Callaghan moved thai such return be laid on the Table the first day of noxt session of Parliament. Mr Brown moved that it bo laid on tho Table as far as possible to-morrow, and a complete return by next se-siou. Mr Lake suggested that .he motion should bo amended so as to read, " the number of days on which members of both Houses havo been absent." Mr Brown's amendment was carried on tho voices, and the origiual resolution as amended agreed to. DISTBICT RAILWAYS BILL. The Hon. Sir Julius Yogel moved that tho amendments of the Legislative Council m tho District Bailways Bill be agreed to. The amendment was a new clause providing that no other district railways should be undertaken by the Bill m future. The Spe.iker said as this was a money Bill the insertion of this eln\ise interfered with the privileges of tho House. After soino debate, tho Hon. Mr Stout suggested the matter be postponed till two o'clock, so as to give it further consideration. The House then adjourned and resumed at 2 p.m. LAND DHL. The Hon. Mr Ballance moved the adoption of the Report on the Land Bill. He explained the amendments made m the Bill, and snid the effect of those made as to education reserves were much ns the provisions wcro at present. As for tendering for land, it had been decided that where thero was only one tender for perpetml leases, that tender should be accepted at the upset price. The homestead clause had been restored with a modification that no more than 3000 acres of land should be taken up m any oue district m one year. The purchasing clause m perpetual lease 3 had been restored but was not to apply to education reserves. The punishment clause, providing for imprisonment had been struck out, and the fine of £20 increased to £30. In reply to Colonel Trimble, the Hon. Mr Stout said he would move nn addition to the punishment clause that it should only apply where one person lit a fire on another person's property. The motion was agreed to. UISTBICT BATLWAYS BILL. The Hon. Sir Julius Yogel meved, with reference to tho amendments of the Council iv the District Railways Bill — " That the j Legislative Council be requested to appoint a Committeo to consult with a Committee of the House of Representatives as to whether the amendments made m the District Kailways Bill 13 a breach of tho privileges of this House, the managers of tho House of Representatives to consist of Major Atkinson, Mr Hamlin and tho mover." Mr Montgomery thought it was a most extraordinary courso for tho Government to pursue. Tho Speaker had distinctly given it as Irs opinion that it was a breach of privilego of tho Houao, and yet the Government proposed to ask the other Chamber whether this was so or not. Ho hoped tho leader of the Opposition would express an opinion on tbo course proposed to be taken. Mr Kerr quite concurred with Mr Montgomery, and moved that the amendments be considered that day six months. Mr Fisher seconded the amendment. He bljo thought the Government wero adopting a most extraordinary course m the face of the Speaker's ruling. Mr Barron objected to the docision of tho Speaker I cinq overridden by any Conference. He said the Speaker's decision, and that alone, would guide him m this. Mr Rolleston considered tho Speaker's ruling was quite sufficient to bo submitted to the other House without any reasons being given. The Speaker said he could only repeat his previous ruling which was that tho Bill being a money Bill, the Legishitivo Council had no power to alter it. Ho felt so strongly on tho matter that he would rather advise the House to embody tho Bill m an Appropriation Bill, and send it back to the Council than to forego tho opinion he had previously given, namely, that the Council had no power to alter it. Major Atkinson said the Speaker hod distinctly ruled that m his opinion an infringement of the privilege of tho House had taken place. That was also his (Major Atkinson's) opinion offer giving tho matter some consideration. Ho thought tho clause proposed to bo inserted by the Council clearly violated their privileges. It seotned to him that they should not appoint a Committeo, but that they should pass a resolution that the insertion of this clause waa an infringoment of their privileges. He would move to that effect us soon as tho other amendments wero disposed of. Tho Hon. Sir Julius Yogel said that courso would moon throwing tho Bill out. Mr Kerr withdrew his amendmont. Major Atkinson movod — "That tho insertion of the new clauso infringes the privilcgo of this House, and this Houso trusts that this will bo sufficient reason to induce tho Council to withdraw their amendment." Tho Hon. Fir Julius Yogel said this would throw out the Bill, and ho would press his motion. If the Houco wero against him tho responsibility would rest with the House. Mr Wakefield was surprised at tho disregard of tho Treasurer for tho privilege of tho Houso and his anxiety for tho Bill. He himself hud been a supporter of tho Bill, but he should fcol compelled after the Speaker's ruling to voto for Major Atkinson's umendmont. Mr Harper moved the adjournment of the debate for an hour, but it was lost on tho voices. Tho Hon. Sir Julius Vogel's resolution wns then put and lost on the voices, and Major Atkinson's amendment carried. Tho lion. Bir Julius Yogel thon asked for lcavo to introduco forthwith a Bill to deal with tho District Railways Act, but lcavo was refused. Ho then gavo notice of tho Bill for noxt day. SECOND nEAUIKGS. Tlie Hon. Sir Julius Yogel moved tho second reading of tho Appropriation BillAgreed to. The Hon. Sir Julius Yogel moved the second reading of tho Immigration _ and Public Works Act Appropriation Bill. — Agreed to. IK OOMMITtEB. Tho House went into Committeo on tho Appropriation Bill. Major Atkinson asked whether tlioro was anything new m tho Bill beyond v»hit was uaual. Tho Hon. Mr Stout snid there win nothirg uuuaual oxcepl an amendment to remedy a mistake m connection wild appropriations to th« State Forest Account,

The Bill was then passed with verbal uraendments. Tho House went into Committee on the Immigration and Public Works Appropriation Hill, which wns passed without amendment, was read a third time, and passed. The Houso adjourned at 6.16 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. ArrnoriuATiON dill. On the motion for the the third reading of the Appropriation Bill, Major Atkinson said, m availing himself of the customary privilege of criticising tho policy of the Government on tho third reading of this Bill, ho would be very brief. Ho said the conduct of tho Government during tho session had been of tho wildest. They had submitted to rebuffs and defeats such ns had nevor been equalled while he had the honor of sitting m Parliament The field was very large, and he might spend some hour 3 m criticising the action of tho Gorcrnmont. He proposed to divide his subject into seven heads, as he could not find any principle to attack. Tho first subject ho would deal with was the Justice Department. Ho thought the Minister had beon very badly treated by tho Government. The House had frequently listened with pleasure to tho Minister for Justice, but this session ho had not been allowed to speak at all, as tho members of the Government m the front Benches monopolised nil the talking. He contended that ho should have had more assistance from his colleagnes, m passing the Criminal Code Bill, especially after tho speeches they had heard from the Premier on reform. Then there was the Shorthand Heporting Bill, which met with a similar fate, as the Premier allowed the Bill to bo adjourned for a fortnight without giving tho Minister for Justice a helping hand. Then as to the Minister of Mines whoso was a new Department, they had had a. statement from that Minister which showed a thorough grasp of the whole Department. The lion, gentlemen had also introduced several Bills connected with the goldfields, but thero was throughout a want of sincerity m the manner m which they conducted those Bills through the House. The Bill for tho repeal of tlio gold duty was nl3O allowed to go the same way as tho other policy Bills. He would ask the GoldhYlds Members whether they had ever received co little assistance from any Government which they had thoroughly supported as from the present one. Coming to tho Minister for Public Works, he reminded tho Hauso that the Government of which ho was a member wero turned out because of their mismanagement of the railways. The present Minister had come m with ii great reputation for railway management, but he submitted that there were complaints at present from one end of the tolony to the other of the mismanagement of the Bailway Department. He distinctly stated that thero were many moro complaints now than when the late Government left office, and he contended that m ro respect had the Minister for Public Works fulfilled tho eipeotations formed of him. They were also told that they were to have a Railway Boards Bill, hut it was well understood why the Bill was uot pressed, as it would havo met the fate of the other Bills. Then thero was the Native Minister, who believed thoroughly m himself, and was yet led about like a tame lamb by tho native members. He had come down with a great flourish of trumpets with two Native Bills, one a very useful Bill, although with somo bad clauses, which they could have eliminate!, while tho other wns a very different measure. He (Major Atkinson) could give no countenance to a Bill to deal with native lands iv such a manner that nobody but rings w-uld be able to obtain any lands under it. The Bill was read a third time and referred (o the Native Lands Committee, so that it could bo knocked on the head. Tho Native Minister had been told that the Bills would never emerge from that Committee, but ho scouted the idea. The result, however, proved that the House was right, as those Hills were si ill m Committee. As to the Minister of Lnnda administration, he only hoped that his special settlements scheme would succeed. With regard to the Land Bill, he was disposed to givo the hon. gentleman some credit, os ho had taken considerable trouble m preparing it. He (Major Atkinson) was now an impartial critic, and would give Ministers what littlo credit they wero entitled to. Tho Colonial Treasurer should be a subject by himself, but he should havo to include him with tho other Ministers. Ho reminded the House of the promise* made by tho Treasurer, who was going to restore confidence and prosperity to tho colony by leaps and bounds, but ho would ask whether there was more prosperity sinco ho took office? He said it must "be admitted that the hon. gentleman had signally failed. Then, had ho lessened taxation a3 he promised ? Ho contended that tho Treasurer had not grasped tho condition of tho country. The Government had held office at tho request of their supporters. The great fault laid to the late Government wns that they had no measure ; bnt what was the rcsourco of the Treasurer ? Ho fell back on that socalled most obnoxious proposal the property t>x, and had not only increased that tax, but had largely increased tho burdens of tho country. Ho also had increased the customs duties and succession duties, and had m every respect endeavored to heap up the taxes which ho had denounced. Tho result had proved that the Treasurer was not the man tho country had expected to relievo it from its depression. Ho condemned tho Local Bodies Bill as vicious m principle, with out ono redeeming feature, tho relief to local bodies consisting of unlimited borrowing. The Bill proposed originally to giro subsidies for 25 years, but was finally passed with six months' subsidies, and consisted only of seven clauses instead of fifty. Referring to tho East nnd West Coast Railway, ho said if ever any Government wero insincere the action of tho present Govcrnmeut was insincere, or they would not havo refused to mako such an important question a Government question. Tho country was also promised reform of the Legislative Council, which was a strong plank m the platform of the Government. An extraordinary number of appointments had been made m that House, and after that they had producod their great measure of reform. But what had become of tho Bill? It shared the fate of the others. Coming to tho Premier, he would liko to ask what the hon. gentleman had done during the session. He thought absolutely nothing. Ho suid tho Premier hud made a mistake iv accepting the position he had done. Tho Government was not a coalition Government as no coalition should bo formed till it hud been found impossible to form v Govornment of ono particular party. Ho thought it would bo a long tiino before tho Premier recovered from tho position ho had taken up. The hon. gentleman and the Treasurer had no eympnthy whatever m common. It was reported that tho Premier intended resigning during the recess, and ho hoped for his (Mr Stout's) sake that tho report wns truo. He hoped tho Colonial Treasurer would also go with him. Ho contended thero could bo no comfort to tho Minister* so long as their interests wcro diametrically opposed as they wero at present, and ho ventured to predict that if ho survived till noxt Bcssion they would rcceivo tho reward of all their misdeeds. Tho Hon. Mr Stout said tho function of a lender of tho Opposition should have been to lay down a definite platform instead of tho policy of the Government which he was uttacking, but ho contended that tho Member for Egmont had not shadowed forth any policy, noithor had he attacked the policy or administration of tho Government. Ho referred to Major Atkinson's speech during the recess, from which it was apparent that the nativo policy of tho Government wns to bo tho special subject of attack, nnd quoted from tho Taranaki J/eralc/, a paper which supported tho Member for Kgmont as to tho improved condition of nativo affairs. Ho (Mr Stout) admitted that tho Houso was m a peculiar condition. Tho hon. gentleman had lust year statod,tlinl a coalition Government was tho only remedy. No doubt the reason why tho hon. gentleman was opposed to it now was because he was not included m tho coalilion. Reforring to tho tariff ho said tho Government saw there was v necessity for n change m tho taxation, and they proposed t> do it so that il should fall on all classes alike. 'J ho defeat of tho Tariff Hill wn» brought, about by peculiar circumstances, iind tho Member for Egmont took full advantage of the opportunity. Ho (Mr Stout) admitted that the Government should huvo resigned afler the defeat of tho Tariff Bill, but i;o felt that if tboie members

who wero pledged to Bupport them had kept their promises the session would not have been so barren as it turned out to be. ire defended tho native policy of the Government, and said the natives had seen that the Government wero inclined to trent them with fairness and kindness, and that was the reason they gave tho Government their support. He denied that tho Native Lands Bill put the power of purchasing the land m tho hands of speculators. Ho would ask where was tho Native Lauds Bill introduced by the Member for Egmont m 1877 and again m 1879? The subject waa a most difficult one for any Government to undertake. Ho contended that the present Government had done inoro than oilier Governments had ever done to prevent, speculators from getting the native land. Ministry after Ministry had removed restrictions from those lands and opened tho way for speculators. His colleague thj Native Minister had said he would not con sent to the removal of a single restriction except what was promised by him. Then, as to tho local government question. The Liberal party, Conservative party, and Radical party m England had just confessed that the local Government scheme was still incomplete, and could it be said that they could suceed m doing this m New Zealand? Tho present Government had passed the Hospitals Bill which tho Member for Egmont had been endeavoring to pass for six years, lie believed the time would como when the local bodies would have to depend on themselves m the same way as Municipal Corporations, and would have to borrow to construct their own works. Tho Government had also done what they could to dovelope the new industries m the colony. They had passed the Fisheries Bill and the Forests Bill, and would have materially assisted other industries if their Tariff Bill had passed. Referring to tho Land Bill, ho thanked the Member for Geraldine for the hearty assistance ho had given to the Bill, and ho desired to cay that no matter what political differences existed between himself and that hon. gentleman, he felt confident that he (Mr Rolleston) was sincere m his desire to further tho proper settlement of tlio country. Be also thanked tho Member for Egmont for his assistance m pnssing tho Bill. They had m the present Land Bill a more liberal measure than would ever be passed by ony other Parliament, and this alone would have been a good record for the session. Tho Government were also subject during the session to more no-confidence resolutions than any other Government ever had to contend with. He contended, however, that tliero had been no attack on tho administrative capacity of tho Government. The criticism of the Member for Egmont had been of a personal kind, and ho had no administrative blunders to attack. He thought the present Government had done as much to carry on the business of tho country successfully as any other Government m the country. Ho denied thufc there was any understanding between himself and the Treasurer previous to taking office, and had ho consulted his own interests he would not be m office at Hie present. Ho was not against government by party, but he confessed that the proceedings of tho present session had given n shock to his feelings on party government. Mr Wakclield said it was not tho business of the Opposition to formulate a policy, but the Opposition this session ha 1 had a very decided policy, which was to prevent tho Government from doing any mischief, and that policy was ten times greater by comparison tlmn any policy tho Goverrment possessed. He contended that tho Premier's speech was a series of apologies for tho failures of the session. The Premier m the recess had a very distinct platform, but he altogether abandoned that when m office. Every plank of tho Premier's platform had disappeared, until at last ho was dancing m tho air. It was evident that tho Treasurer had not kept any of his promises, or restored prosperity m tlio slightest degree. Ho attributed the condition of aflair3 m tho House to tho coalition between the Premier and tlio Treasuror rather than to the existenco of a Middlo Party. He denied the statement of the Premier that Mr Bryce was m tho habit of removing restrictions from tho purchase of nativo lands and said the opposite waa the case. Tho Premier had excused tho Government for not passing tho Local Government Bill, and said they could not bo expected to dispose of tho question m a single session. Tho reason why the House expected them to do so was because Ministers promised they would bring m such a measure. The Premier had referred to tho groat benefits to be conferred on the colony by tho Fisheries Bill, and the State Forests Bill. Old and tried sonants had been dismissed to make way for new men who had no qualifications for thcolFices given them under these Bills. He contended that tho country was m a f>iv woreo position now than beforo tho present Government took office, and said tho Colonial Treasurer had misled the country altogether as to its condition. In his opinion, all tho good that had beon done this session had been dono by tho Opposition. The Hon. Sir Julius Togel said tho whole of the speech of tlio Member for Egmont seemed to resolve itself into a complaint that tho Ministry did not resign and allow him to come into office. Tho hon. member spoko agaiiißt coalition, but he thought he would coalesc* with any other member for the sako of office. Ho would have coalesced with tho Member for Napier or with his (Sir Julius Vogel's) own colleagues. Ho never Baid anything so humiliating as tho action of tho Member for Fgmonl who, when ho failed to carry his no-conlidence motion, had sheltered himself under tho wing of tho Member for Dunstan and afterwards of the Member for Oaniui'ti. Referring to tho defeat of the Tariff Bill ho enid there wero many members m tho House who now regretted the notion thoy took m regard to that matter, nc characterised the remarks of tho Member for Egmout with respect to his colleagues as something like impertinence. Ho (Sir Julius Yogel) admitted that tho Government attempted too much this session m tho way of legislation, but the reason of that was that they- found such an extraordinary state of things existed when they look office that they folt bound to bring m tho measures they had introduced. Ho referred to tho Bills' that had passed this session mid said tho Land Bill, the renewal of tho San Francisco service and ninny other matters wns a record which the Government need not feel ashamed of. Ho admitted that the Government hud not been successful on porno points this 6cssion. In his opinion the country would yet respond loyally to tho proposals for borrowing for the completion of the largo trunk lines of the colony. If ho hud strength to go about the country ho would go all over the colony to advocate a thorough railway policy on t'<« ono hand und tho promotion of local industries on tho othor, Ho said that the Government had not been desirous of continuing m office, but they had been requested to do so by a largo majority of their supporters. As to not making the East and West Const Railway a Ministcriul question, ho snid tho Government, had refrained from doing so m tho interests of tlio railway itsolf, nnd ho was surprised that tho Member for Egmont hnd not supported tho railwny after his repented advocacy of the line. He then moved tho third readinjj of the Appropriation Bill. Mr Fishor hoped the exhibition of temper just, displayed by the Treasurer would bo speedily relegated to tho oblivion which it merited. He regretted that no mention had been ni'.ulo during tho debulo to that, blot on the work of tho session— tho District Railways Purchasing Bill, and he hoped tho people of tho colony would remember that a Government which called itself liberal, had by this Bill imposed ono of tho most iniquitous measures on the colony that had ever been put on tho Stntute Book. 'Hie Bill was then read n third timo and passed. MKBBAOE YB.OU TIIK COUNCIL. A message was received from tho Legislntivo Council that thoy did not insist on tho amendments m tho District Railways purchasing Bill, but maintained their right to inuko tlio amendments. THKKATB ADD MOLKBTATtOKB DILI,. Tho Hon. Mr Stout moved the second rending of Hin Threats nnd Molestations Hill. Ho naiil tliu Bill had passed tho other Chamber. Mr Scdclou object o.-J to tlio Bill at. this stage of tho session, 110 moved it bo rend that day cii months. The Hon. Mr Stout said as there wore so many members Absent ho would withdraw

, the Bill, which was then, withdrawn from tho Order Paper. THB PBOnOOATION. The Hon. Mr Stout moved that the House meet at 4 p.m. to-morrow for the prorogation, aud the House rose at 1.10 a.m.