GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Timaru Herald, Volume XLII, Issue 3386, 4 August 1885, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(By Telegraph.) Wellington, August 3. HOUSE OF BEPREBENTATIVES. Tho House met at 7.30 p.m. NATIVE LANDS DISPOSITION BILL. The Hon. Mr Bollanco moved tho second reading of the Nntivo Lands Disposition Bill. Ho said tho Bill was brought down to provent native lands falling into the handß of speculators, and also to provide for tho settlement of tho land. During the recoss he took tho opportunity of visiting most of tho native people m the North Island, and he found a general opinion expressed by the chiefs and loading people m favor of tho proposals ho had laid before them. Ho was awaro that sinco that time somo of tho chiefs had oxpresßcd opinions adverse to tho present Bill, but ho e till considered tho Bill was approved by tho majority of tho natives of tho North Island. Although thero was a division of opinion umonget tho natives on the Bill, thero wns also an almost unanimous opinion on tho necessity of somo chango being introduced m their land laws. Tho main principle of tho Bill was to ocquiro tho nativo hinds and to soo that thoy were properly settled. Tho Bill brought m by tho Member for Waitotara m 1882 providod that tho majority of owners should bo ablo Jo rtooi with their lanti, nnil thoro was m roality vory litllo difforenco botween that proposal and tho present proposal. Ho thought it would bo gonorally admitted that tho administration of nativo lands m tho past had not boon satisfactory. It had been admitted by tbe Mombor for Waitotara that gross abuses had existed with respect to nativo land. Ho thought, looking at tbo vast area of nativo land m tho North Island, it behoved the Houbo to consider that somothing should bo done to properly administer it for tho bonefit of the natives. Fair play should ho accorded to tho nativos and to those of the European population who wore desirous of taking up Ihoir lands m a legitimate manner. Ho was not propnred to Buy thut the purchiibcru of nntivo

i lands got all tho bonefit from them, but it i was very certain the natives did not benefit ; by it. A largo portion of it had gone into , the pockets of middlemen — lawyers, interpreters, and others. Last session they were 1 pledged to a measure of this kind, and it was tho duty of the Government to bring m the present Bill. He quoted from tho Governor's Speech m 1879 to show that a similar measure was to bo brought m that session by the Member for Wnitotara. His own opinion was that taking the native lands and giving compensation for them would not bo satisfactory to tho natives, but thoy should give the natives the power to dispose of their lands, when it would be found that a largo quantity of it would bo offered for settlement. He contended that the Bill violated no native rights, and it offered tho natives better terms by placing the land m the open market for public competition. The Bill was intended to benefit tho great mass of the public of tho colony. It had been said that the proper way to deal with native lands was to reserve a portion for the natives, and then freo trade for the remainder, but he contended that would not effect the object m view for tho settlement of the land. The Committee system was the main feature of the Bill, but whilst it gave the Committees large powers it also contained important checks if the Committees did not perform their functions. The Bill gave large powers to the Governor-in Council, but it also provided that the lands should be sold under the Waste Lands Laws of the colony. He had been perfectly besieged by applications to have restrictions removed, but he was determined to take no action m this respect till tho House had decided a better system of i administering the lands than at present. He was not prepared to say that the Bill was entirely perfect, but he felt certain it would come out of Committee a useful measure. Mr Ormond gave Mr Ballancg credit for sincerity m his desire to establish the settlement of tho country, but ho thought the House expected a move convincing speech from his own point of view than they had hoard. He held entirely different viows on the question of nntivo lands. He had hoped Mr Ballnnco would have given the House some account of his conduct of nativo affaire during the recess, and ho thought tho House had a right to expect that eomo statement m that direction should be made. He thought tho House and tho country would recognise that the Member for Waitetara had brought about the result that the natives respected the law, and that the Queen's writ was allowed to run throughout the colony. Mr , Bryce had also convinced the natives that not only was it necessary to obey the law, but that tl'.eir interests were identical with our own. Ho (Mr Ormond) thought no Native Minister had over entered office under better '. auspices than tho present Ministry. It was understood last year that tho Government j should acquire land along tho lino for the trunk line of railway, but ho failed to see that anything had been done m that direction. Ho regretted to havo to epeak m a manner hostile to the present Nativo Minister, but ho felt they had to do their duty m treating public questions. Ho found that the Native Minister had given the natives a guarantee that their lands should not be subject to taxation by the present or by any other Government. He considered that an altogether unconstitutional act, as he was not at all justified m pledging future Governments as to their action m this respect. Ho thought it was time the House should consider whether nativo lands should not bo subject to taxation, the same as European lands. Ho considered that tho reports of tho meetings held between the Minister and the Natives showed that he was desirous of establishing a personal government over tbo natives. 'I'hero was a time, it was true, when personal influence and but that day had gono by never to return. Thero was already a law on tho Statute Book giving power to Nativo Committees, but it was found that the natives had taken vory little advantago of it, and he thought Mr Ballance would havo dono better to let that matter alone. He considered tho natives obtained better justice from our own Courts than from any Committees. Ho thought it was unwise of the Native Minister m his meetings to touchonthe subjectof Bpecial representation as he considered they were already adequately represented according to their population. He again wished to state that tho Nativo Minister had committed an unconstitutional act m binding future Governments not to take any nction m taxing native lands, and ho thought the natives should be informed . that Mr Bnllance had no authority for making that st'-ilemcnt. Ho said if the natives took Mr Ballance's advice thoy would not sell their lands, but would only lcaso them, and he woidd like to ask members of tho , House if they would like to see 12,000,000 acres of land m tho colony tied up under Maori landlordism. Ho contended that tho Native Minister was doing everything m his power to stop the acquisition of the land along tho North Island trunk line of railway, and his action m this respect would lead to grievous disappointment. He (Mr Ormond) thought tho duty of the Government of the day wns to carry out the laws of tho colony, — not to advise others to intercept them. If the Nativo Lands Disposition Bill camo into law it would stop all alienation of land, nnd check the progress of tho North Island. If the Government bad fulfilled the pledges they made last "session, they would hnvo localised those matters. Thorc was no necessity whatever for the Bill with its undesirable machinery, as it would absolutely lock up tho North Island. Ho fully admitted tho undcsirability of the present Bystcm, but ho wanted to soo n chango by which tho 12,000,000 acres of native land would be administered m a different manner , tliun was proposed by tho Bill. Tho preemptive right would bo far prcfcrablo, and ' ho believed tho natives themselves would be 1 m favor of it. Ho thought tho timo had come when the millions of acres of land which were contributing nothing to tho rovenue i should be made to contribute their share, and . that tho natives must bo Bhown thoy must, m ■ common with Europeans, ngrce to the taxation ' of their land. He did not desiro that tho , question should bo mado a party one, but he ( hoped, if this Bill wero negatived, the Govern- , merit would direct their attention to devising ! sonic bettor system than tho ono proposed. Tho Hon. Mr Stout said tho speech of the t Momber for Napier altogether travollcd outside tho prcsont Bill. Ho defondod tho system of Nativo Committees, and said it was on extraordinary admission for tho Member for Napier to advocate their abolition, ospecially as the hon. gentleman was such a strong advocate for local government. He contended that under tho administration of tho Member for Waitotara tho Nativo Committees had considerable powers, and ho considered his colleague tho Nativo Minister was quite justifiod m still advocating that system. Ho defonded tho Nntivo Minister's action m dealing witli tho natives, and said that largo tracts of country were oxcropted from tho , Crown and Nativos Lauds Bating Act by tho late Govornruont, not by tbo prcsont ono. Ho t urged that it was not fair to the Maori t race to proas them to sell their lands. Ho contended that tho Government had [ acted properly m dealing with the trunk lino \ of railway, nnd said if they intended to carry that railway to a successful issuo they should not ignoro tho view of the nativo ownors. Tho only way to got the railwny was to show tho natives that wo woro inclined to treat them fairly. Tho present Bill proposed to deal with ■ tho hind m 0110 particular way, and m Hint thoy agreed with tho Member for Napier. , Thoy were also agreed m tho proposal for Boards. Ho contended that if tho pro--1 omptivo right woro resumed it would load to 1 largo borrowing. With reference to tho I taxation of Maori lands ho said the Maoris ( could not afford to pay tho taxes, and ho con- ; sidercd it was a more mockery to 101 l tho XToitso that ottcli a ayotcin could bo inoCitutoci. Tho only system of prc-onipttvo right that could bo instituted was a system akin to the presont Bill, and ho contended that no sninll farms had bnon bought from tho natives. Ho thought tho Bill was fair to the Maoris, , and it was also fair to tho Europeans, ns it put the North and South Islands on the same , footing. Ho hoped tho House would pass tho , socond reading of tho Bill. Mr Bryco said tho Native Committees, ns 1 they oxisted at prcsont, woro simply a Board ■ of arbitrators. They had nopowor, nor was tho Nntivo Lands Court, bound by tho opinions thoy expressed. Ho thought tho Premier's • argument that tho Nativo Commitees wore a ; system of local solf-govornmont wns (trespass' 1 ing strongly upon the credulity of the House.

He considered tho utterances of the Native Minister at certain nativo meetings meant a good doal, and he thought the colony would yet find they meant a good deal, as the promise made by that hon. gentleman could never be fulfilled. He could not see why Maori lands should not be subject to the same law as European lands. He agreed with the Premier that the and purchase system m the past had been a failure, but he considered the cause of the failure was that the Government were m competition with private poreons. He did not agree that the resumption of the pre-emptive right would be of such magnitude as the Premier pointed out, or that it would involve such large sums for purchase. He contended that it was clearly contemplated last year that the Government should acquire the land along the line of the trunk railway for settlement. He desired to speak on the Bill with moderation, as ho admitted tho question was surrounded with difficulties, but he thought the Bill would promote land-sharking to a degree that was little imagined. He admitted that tho Bill might be made workable m Committee, but he thought it would be much better to construct a new Bill. He considered tho present ono should not pass its second reading. Its proposals would result m tho appointment of about » thousand Committees, nnd there would be very few Maori? on them. IN COMItITTEE. The House wont into Committee on the Auckland University College Deserves Bill, which passed with Verbal amendments, was read a third time and passed. ADJOUBNMENT. The House rose at 12.30 a.m.