The Marine Commission.

Temuka Leader, Issue 3470, 25 July 1899, Page 3

The Marine Commission.

Wellington, July 21

Captain Allman, cross examined by Mr Hislop, said that even if Jones was credited with all the service claimed, he was still short of the requisite amount. He had not | spoken to the Premier prior to his de- { partnre for England, and was positive that , he had not spoken to him about the matter for two years. There ware two messengers waiting at the station when witness returned 1 from Wanganui, one- from the Premier, and one from Mr Hall-Jones. The latter told witness that the Alinister wished to see him before he saw the Premier. Indirectly it was arranged between witness and Air Hall-Jones that he was to tell the Premier nothing in regard to the charge about Joues. When, after the session closed. Air Hall-Jones told him Air Hutcheson had said that Jones’s papers had been done in Von Schoen’s house witness replied that Air Hutcheson could no more say whether they were so done than witness could tell what was in that drawer, pointing to the Minister’s drawer, la answer to further questions Captain Allman said that after he had admitted to Air llall-Jones that he had improperly passed Jones, he had a conversation with the Alinister and they came to an arrangement that if witness made a confidential statement it was to be understood nothing more would be said about the matter. Witness strongly affirmed that the Premier knew nothing whatever about the bogus certificate. When witness found that there would be an enquiry he said to Mr Hall-Jones “ Where do you come in ?” and the Alinister said “ I don’t come in at all ; you should have conducted the examination properally.” Questioned by Air Atkinson as to his relations with Von Schoen, he admitted that he found papers prepared by him very useful, nor would Vou Schoen take any payment for lessons. No names wore mentioned when Von Schoen tried to bribe him. The latter said that he would make it worth his while to pass his candidates in preference to those of the opposition examiner. After that he sheered olf from Von Schoen. He frequently hai disputes with him about the interpretation of the regulations, and the failure of candidates. Von Schoen’s threat was made as an incentive to pass his candidites, and would not bear the construction that it had merely been used in a general way. Captain Allman, under cross-examination by Air Hislop, said that it was distinctly arrange I between him and Air Hall-Jones that he should not tell the Premier he had helped Captain Jones through with his examination. The Alinister told witness he would see the Premier, and that ho (Allman) w ;s to say that there was nothing in it Witness had not then told Air HallJones about the examination papers being brought into the room. When Air HallJones told him Air Hutcheson was to insist ou an enquiry witness said that Captian Jones hid not done the work, and it would not bear investigation. He did not think he had gone the length of telling people that Air Hall-Joues had made himself Responsible for tho whole thing or for giving an order to lot Captain Jones sit without a mate’s certificate.

To Mr Atkinson : Witness admitted failing in his nautical examination at Melbourne, but said he afterwards passed at Sydney. He was still clear that he had never seen the permit envelope until it was brought into Mr Allport’s office. Ho had no direct or indirect dealing with Von Sehoen in reference to Captain Jones’ competency certificate. Re-examined by Mr Hanlon ; He adhered to his statement that he wrote the confidental report at Mr Hall-Jones’ request. It was to help both o‘. them,and the Minisster’s name was to be kept out of it. On it being pointed out that this evidence was contradicted on important points by a number of other witnesses, witness said that he was siinply speaking the facts. Up to the time he heard Mr Hall-Jones’ explanation he believed that he was anxious that Jones should get his certificate. Asked what he meant by the statement that he knew that the Premier was anxious that Captain Jones should be permitted to sit, witness said that he gathered that impression from his telegram and conversation with Mr HallJones, but hearing the Premier’s evidence ho did not think it was correct. If he had known the confidential report was to be used against him he would never have written it. He considered that he had screened Mr Hall-Jones by taking the responsibility of stretching the regulations. As the order was issued it was never intended it should come out.

Mr Allport, on being re-examined, said that he was quite c’ear that Captain Allman brought him the permit envelope. Captain Von Schoen was the next witness. He denied the allegations of surreptitiously getting information as to questions that were to be set, and of attempting to bribe Captain Allman. He indignantly stigmatised them as infamous lies. He had instructed Captain Jones in 1887, for which he received .£5. He never taught him in 1897.

At this point Mr Atkinson said that bis client would not answer any questions as to bis relations with Caplaiu Jones after July Sth, 1897. Dr Findlay suggested that he was afraid to do so.

Witness continued: He had arranged to get Captain Jones a service certificate, but be was to receive no pay if he failed. He did, however, receive £ls, not £l7, some of it after the certificate had been refused. He still considered that Captain Jones was entitled to a certificate, and it was only the pure cussedness of the Department to hold it back. He denied that he ever had access to the examination papers in Mr Allport’s room, though he might have seen them once or twice in Captain Allman’s room.

At this stage the witness refused to answer questions as to the prepartion of tne papars for Captain Jones. Mr Hanlon said that in that case he could not go on with the examination. To Dr Findlay : Was not a bit ashamed of himself, and was prepared to give Captain Jones his £ls back. Upon being closely pressed witness admitted that some of this money might have been for other services. Witness amid great laughter, said that he and Allman were once as thick as thieves but lie never got any information he was not entitled to. This, however, be was obliged ultimately to qualify by saying that Allman might possibly tell him little things. The Commission then adjourned.

During the day a letter was read from Captain McLellan to His Honour Judge Ward, saying that he could not attend and declaring that he had passed his examination legitimately. July 22. _ The Marine Commission resumed this morning. Captain Von Schoen, under cross-ex-amination by Dr. Findlay, corroborated Mr Allport’s account of what had passed between Allport and witness in regard to wtnesses suspicion that examinations were not being conducted properly. When witness told Allport that the examinations were going from bad to worse, he had no proof, but his suspicions were aroused because of certain oases that had come under his notice. He only told Allport under promise of secrecy. His desire was to see the examinations properly conducted. Witness next told his suspicions about the examinations to Mr Hutcheson and Mr Pirani, but did not ask for a promise of confidence from them. After the affair was mentioned in the House witness still refused to release Mr Allport from his promise of secrecy, the reason being that no names were mentioned in the House. Witness denied having filled in a false declaration for Captain Jones. Cross examined by Mr Gray, Von Schoen said- he still thought Jones was entitled to a service certificate, being better qualified than many who hold such certificates. In reply to Mr Travers, witness denied having seen any examination papers in Allport’s room. Cross-examined by Mr Atkinson, witness said Captain Edwin was one of witness’ best friends still. It never occurred to him tkat Allman had deprived him of % mono-

poly in compass adjusting worth .£2OOO a year. .. _ r Cross-examined by Dr Findlay, \on Schoen said that it must have been early in or about the middle of 189/ and not 1898 that he first became suspicious of Allman for reasons staled yesterday. Air Allport would bo the per so to whom lie first expressed his suspicions, about February 1898. He did not make the statement voluntarily ; it was “ drawn from him ” by Mr Allport. The subject was first opened by witness remarking that examinations in Wellington were going from bad to worse. Witness did not wish to tell any more and would not at first do so, but Mr Allport pressed him very much, and, at last, he said that he would toll him what had aroused his suspicion if he (AllporF) would give his word of honor not to disclose it. This Mr Allport readily consented to do. He did not require to be pressed to give his word cf honor. Witness detailed the rest of the conversation with Allport and described how he furnished proof of what he had said in respect of Captains Bendall’s and MoLeJlan’s examinations. That was the first time (February, 1898) on which he told anyone his suspicions. He did not think Bendall and McLellau had any tuition. They were not pupils of his. Witness would not willingly have been a party to any fraudulent examination. When he was ordered out of the examination room by Captain Edwin many years ago, he was not in the room for the purpose of helping a candidate. When he went in he did not know that an examination was goin on. "Witness said that he wrote the statement of the sea service of Captain Jones, particulars being obtained from the office of the Department by Jones himself. Witness maintained that the statement of service was correctly written up) from the information available. He would not swear that Air Mathieson had not paid him for filling in his application form. Air Mathieson told him that he had failed in the vision test portion of his examination, but he (witness) filled in that he not failed. It was Mathieson that signed the application. Judge Ward: But do you consider it proper to fill in that a man has not failed when he has failed ?

"Witness : It was the duty of the Customs officials to see that all was in order, as they had all the papers before them. "Witness, continuing, said that his reason for declining to release Mr Allport from his promise of secrecy was because he wanted to keep the thing quiet in order that it might be privately investigated. Cross-examined by Mr Atkinson, witness said that be had made complaints to the Marino Department in reference to the conduct of examinations before and after Captain Allman’s appointment. His complaint had no special reference to Captain Allman. The document produced was a copy of the envelope upon which the Premier had minuted to the effect “ Can anything be done for this man ?” and Captain Allman’s reply was that nothing could be done (the original had not been produced). Witness made a copy when Captain Jones had the original in his possession, and he thought ho (Jones) must still have the original. There was some discussion on Mr Atkinson’s proposal to put this copy in. Mr Mr .Ukiuson said that Captains Jones and Allman and Dr Findlay had been notified to produce the original, but it was not forthcoming. Judge "Ward said that ho would allow the document to be put in for what it was worth, and remarked that its value depended upon the veracity of the witness, who said it was a faithful copy of the original. The copy read as follows; —“ Can anything be done to get over this difficulty ? K.J.S., 21-9-95,” and below was Captain Allman’s reply: —“I have carefully considered Captain Jones’ case and 1 regret to say there is no possibility of overcoming the difficulty. 27-9-95.” Reverting to Captain Jones’ payments, witness repeated that ho did not ask Jones for any money. He offered it to him, asking him to do what he could to get him his service certificate.

Wellington, July 2 k The Marino Commission resumed this morning. Cross-examined by Mr Atkinson, Captain Von Schoen said that neither Captain Beodall nor Captain McLellan were his pupils. He had not shown the working of problems in his (witness’) book to Captain Jones, or any other person. The statement made by Allman that witness offered him a bribe to pass his pupils was not true. He never pressed Jones to go up for examination ; on the contrary, he told him that it was impossible for him to go up for a certificate as he could not prove service. Jones replied that it was all right, as he had just seen Mr Hall-Jones and Captain Allman.

Witness produced his calculation book, and Mr Hanlon tabled Captain Bendall’s and Captain McLellan’s examination papers for the purpose of comparison by the Court, the insinuation being that the answers in witness’ book bad been copied. These were the papers afterwards given to Mr Allport by Von Schoen to prove his statement that the examinations were going from bad to worse, and evoked a reply from Mr Allport that his (witness’) suspicions seemed to be well founded.