The Marine Commission.

Temuka Leader, Issue 3469, 22 July 1899, Page 4

The Marine Commission.

Wellington, July 20. The Marine Commission resumed this morning.

Captain Edwin was further cross-exam-ined by Mr Atkinson with a view of testing his memory as to when the Premier asked for a report as to the genuineness or otherwise of the examinations of Captain Bendall and McLellan. Witness certified that he was satisfied that they were both correct without looking again at the papers, though he had not seen them since the examinations two years previously. He had every confidence in his fellow examiner, Captain Allman. He did not remember having acted in a confidential capacity for Von Schoen between IS9O and 1896, but he transacted some financial business for him (Von Schoen) when he was absent in Fiji in 1894. Witness, however, did not regard this as confidential business. The Marine Department now informed candidates of the points on which they had been failed, but witnass was not aware that this was the outcome of representations made by Von Schoen, nor was he aware that it was the outcome of au impossible question set by witness in one of the examinations he conducted.

C.iptain Allman was the next witness. Mr Hanlon put in Captain Allman's statements, which were read by the Premier, and said that as these contained the whole cf Allman's knowledge of the case ho would not ask him any more questions, and would submit him for cross-examination.

Ciojs examined by Dr Findlay, witness detailed Ins nautical experiences, which commenced when he was twelve years of age. He left the Union Company *' to take up this infernal position, which had got him into trouble," or he would have been with the company yet. In all his experience he had never lost a vessel or a life, in fact he had never rubbed paint off a vessel. There was not a particle of impropriety in the examination which witness passed in Sydney for " extra'' master's certificate. That story was spread by Von Schoen. Witness had made all the nautical regulations in New Zealand, and the Victorian regulations were adopted as to adjustment of compasses. Witness did not know at the time, but it was so, that the effect of the adoption of the Victorian regulations was to place a large sum of money into Von Schoen's pocket, something like .£I7OO to £2OOO per annum. This was owing to the fact that compass adjusters here were not conversant with the new regulations. Representations were made to the Government, with the result that dispensations of the regulations were made on the recommendation of witness, in order to do away with Von Schoen monopolising the whole of the fees. Witness then gave some particulars as to those containe l in his statement in regard to Von Schoen's alleged attempt to bribe him. Von Schoen had never received any official information from witness, as to examinations. Up to a certain stage witness had a very high opinion of Von Schoen. Mr Allport had never by word/or deed suggested to witness that there had been any impropriety in the examinations. On one occasion witness saw Mr Allport and Von Schoen sitting alongside each other at a table in the Marine Office, with some examination papers between them. There was no official reason why Allport should have these papers on his table. Witness had reason to believe that examination questions sent out from Home by the Board of Trade were being divulged, and he arranged for a cupboard with a lock and key to be utilised for keeping examination papers in. In one case a candidate's certificate was endorsed with " failure in vision test," but in sending in the man's application to sit for examination Von Schoen stated that he had passed the vision test. In November 1898 witness discovered that Jones's examination papers were missing from their proper place, and he instituted inquiries as the Minister wanted a report upon them. 7'here was no truth in the suggestion that witness wanted these papers in order to destroy thein.

On resuming this afternoon, Mr Hani on said it -was desirable that Captains Bendall (Wellington) and McLellan (Lyttelton,) should be notified that evidence affecting their examinations had been adduced, and that they could, if they desired, be represented. Instructions were accordingly given to that effect. Under further cross-examination by Mr Findhiy, Captain Allmau said he and Captain Edwin had reported the circumstances of the false statement put iu by the candidate Matheson officially. He mentioned the matter in his annual report, but under instruction by Mr Glasgow or the Minister, Mr Allport asked him to modify it, so he put "omitted to state" in place of the words "false statement," which originally appeared in his report. He had mentioned to Captain Marciel and Captain Edwin the fact that he had seen Von Schoen and Allport sitting at the table together. The envelope on which the Premier asked whether anything could bedone in the matter of Jones' service certificate, and 611 which witness replied opposing the granting of a certificate, passedinto Von Schoen's possession. Three clays later ho complained of witness blocking Jones' application. "Witness had no further communication from the Premier on the subject, either before or afttr he left for England. Some six or seven months after the envelope incident Mr Hall-Jones mentioned to witness that it was a hard case that Captain Jones could not obtain his service certificate. Witness agreed that it was a hard case, but said the Act would not allow its issue, and witness pointed out the absurdity of the Act bearing on this point. A couple of months later on, Mr Hall-Jones, in another interview, led witness to infer that the Premier desired the issue of a service certificate to Captain Jones before he returned from England. The inference witness drew from the Premier's telegram to Mr Hall-Jones was that he (witness) should find some other way of issuing the certificate to Captain Jones. Witness looked up the regulations and reasoned that Jones might be allowed to go up for his examination upon his tug service. He showed this to Mr Allport, who said "it was stretching the regulations a bit," and after some conversation Mr Allport and witness agreed that an examination could only be held if an express Ministerial authority was given, Witness told this to Mr Hall-Jones, who said he would consider the matter. In a subsequent interview, at which Captain Jones was present, Mr Hall-Jones remarked to witness that he had made up his mind to allow Captain Jones to go up for his examination without a mate's certificate, and he said he would give an order to the Department. When Captain Jones left his room the Minister remarked that he (Captain Jones) would be able to go up for his examination as soon as he liked. Witness knew no* thing about Jones' qualifications, and never dreamt that he would not be able to pass. In agreeing to dispense with the mate's certificate witness had a bona fide belief that Jones would be able to pass. There was no suggestion made to witness by the Minister or anyone else that he should deal leniently with Jones in his examination. He denied that at the close of this interview Mr Hall-Jones srave him the envelope as a reminder to Took into the matter. He never gave witness an envelope in his life. Witness immediately afterward told Mr Glasgow what had happened at the interview, and that he had agreed to stretch the regulations. Mr Glasgow said he had aoted very foolishly, and inferred that he (Mr Glasgow) would see the Minister about it. Subsequently witness was in Allport's room, when Mr Horneman, or a messenger, brought a memo, to Allport, which Allport said bore the words " Jones Duco permit examination." Allport then went into Mr Glasgow's room, witness thought, for the purpose of having the nfemo. officially recorded. Witness never saw or handled the memo. He denied Mr Hall-Jones' statement that he handed the envelope to witness, and he was almost positive that he (witness) did not hand the envelope to

Allport, as stated by Allport. Allport’s memory must be at fault on this point. So far as witness was concerned there was not the slightest intention that Jones’ examination should be a bogus one. In passing Jones witness admitted that he had done a stupid thing, but he had acted on the impulse of the moment, and it did not strike him that it was illegal. Cross-examined by Mr Gray, witness said he was still satisfied that Jones was highly qualified, except as regards his literary abilities. Witness had no personal interest to serve in passing Jones. He was positive the Minister said he would give an order directing that Jones be permitted to go up for examination. Witness never used the word permit (noun) to the Minister. Cross-examined by Mr Travers, witness said that when he enquired for Jones’ examination papers and could not find them he was not told that they were in Mr Glasgow’s possession, nor did he ask Mr Glasgow about them. With regard to the examination papers which witness saw lying on the table between Allport and Von Schoen, witness could not saj that they were ever referred to in any conversation between Allport and Von fechoen. They were not opened out, and only the top sheet was exposed. It struck witness at the time that it was an impropriety to have these papers there. Three of Jones’ examination papers (produced) were actually worked out by Jones in the room, the remainder were those brought by him. Captain i. dwin had nothing whatever to do with the bogus examination. The Commission adjourned till to morrow.