VISIT OF LORD LOVAT

Taranaki Daily News, 13 October 1928, Page 15

VISIT OF LORD LOVAT

IMMIGRATION AUTHORITY ENGLISH BOYS FOR FARMS DISCUSSION ON THE SCHEME AN EXTENSION SUGGESTED Lord Lovat, Under-Secretary for Dominion Affairs and chairman of the Overseas Settlement Committee, arrived in New Plymouth by the mail train last night from Napier. He was accompanied by Mr. F. Skevington, M.8.E., representing the British Treasury Department, and Mr. IL D. Thompson, of the Department of Internal Affairs. As the train drew into the station the Caledonian pipe band played a welcoming Highland melody and continued to play while the Mayor (Mr. H. V. S. Griffiths) introduced borough councillors and members of the council of the Taranaki Chamber of Commerce to the visitors. After Lord Lovat had inspected the band the visitors were escorted to the Criterion Hotel to the accompaniment of skirling pipes. During dinner the band again played from the verandah of the hotel. The latter part of the evening was occupied by a conference between Lord Lovat and the immigration committee of the Taranaki Chamber of Commerce on the subject of immigration, with special reference to the English public schoolboy settlement scheme in Taranaki. Important recommendations were made for an extension of the scheme.

After dinner Lord Lovat was met by the Mayor and various members of the Taranaki Chamber of Commerce, including Messrs. J. McLeod (vice-president), C. Carter (chairman of the immigration committee), T. C. List, W. IL Moyes, S. F. Burgess, W. J. Frceth, S. Vickers, H. Cocker and V. Duff (secretary). The Mayor extended a brief welcome to Lord Lovat, and mentioned that the talk would be a purely informal one. on immigration matters. After supplementing the Mayor’s welcome, Mr. McLeod said that the chamber was of the opinion that in a broad way, although New Zealand was only a small country, there was room for immigration. The opinion was held that although most of the suitable land was already subdivided, the subdivisions were too big, and better results could be obtained by subdividing the land still further. Other speakers would deal more fully with the public schoolboy immigration scheme, but the speaker had no hesitation in saying that it had been quite successful. It was broadly felt that while there was plenty of room in New Zealand for the best class of English public schoolboy, it was equally certain that together with the boys capital must also be brought to the Dominion. As his lordship was no doubt aware, there was not an over-abundance of money in the country. However, provided that sufficient capital was introduced, there were undoubtedly great opportunities for boys to make homes and establish themselves in an environment where there existed all the beauty and the best that life had to offer. THE WORK ACCOMPLISHED. Addressing Lord Lovat on the work done by the immigration committee of the Taranaki Chamber of Commerce, of which he was chairman, Mr. C. Carter said: — The Chamber of Commerce first considered the immigration scheme in 19'23. Two reasons prompted them to give serious consideration to this question: (a) That there was a real need on the part of farmers of this Dominion for boys of the type that England had to offer, more particularly those boys who had completed their education and were looking for opportunities of employment. (b) It was common knowledge in New Zealand that we should be doing the Mother Country a real service in providing employment in a new country for an over-taxed population. These were the ideals that actuated the chamber in taking up this immigration work.

The chamber set up an immigration committee, and charged them with the responsibility of making arrangements, through the Immigration Department, to bring out at least 50 boys for farm work, these to be selected by the Headmasters’ Association of England. Farmers were invited to offer definite employment on a stated wage to these boys, when they arrived. The committee visited many of the farms, with a view to ascertaining their suitability. On the arrival of the boys, farmers were asked to meet them, and the immigration committee introduced the boys to the farmers for whom they had been engaged.

Our observation after the first season confirmed our judgment that the age limit at which boys should be brought out should not exceed 18 to 19. Boys over this age did not as readily adapt themselves to new conditions as the younger boys. Our experience after the first year led us to the conclusion that boys coming to learn farming would be better prepared and more likely to fit into New Zealand conditions if they could have at least one year at our high school, and by the end of the second year some 17 boys had entered the school. The chamber to date has placed on farms about 150 of the English school boys. SUCCESS OF THE SCHEME. The question may be asked, has the scheme proved a success, and have the boys made good? Before proceeding to answer that question, might I state what the aim of the committee has been; briefly this —that the committee should have the complete confidence of the boys. To do this, it was necessary to act as advisers and councillors, and as far as possible assume- a parental interest in the boys. We have encouraged them at all times to consult the committee, when they had any real difficulties, and establish confidence between the boys and the committee. This, was, we considered, the first step towards success. As to whether the scheme has been a success, I would submit the following facts: (1) Out of 150 boys who have come under the care of the committee, as disclosed by the committee’s records, not more than 10 to 15 per cent, have left the land for other occupations; (2) the scheme has been in existence for years, which we consider is too limited a time wherein a boy may acquire the knowledge ami experience necessary to start on his own account, quite apart from financial considerations, yet a number have taken up farms, their parents having joined

'them in farming pursuits. Other boys are acting as farm managers, others sharemilking, and the remainder working as farm assistants, acquiring necessary experience ajrd capital to start on their own account. Others are entirely dependent on financial assistance if they are ever to have farms of their own.

There is a wide field in New Zealand for a bigger population, and abundance of land awaiting subdivision, but capital is required to develop it. Many of the boys lack capital and need assistance. The scheme has now reached a stage that should command the serious attention of the Government, with a view to making it possible to provide capital for those willing to make farming their object in life. We have the land, the climate and suitable conditions to make men of the boys who have come out. New Zealand could carry five times the population on the land, but money is required, the large areas would need to be subdivided. The scheme, as far as we are concerned, has reached a stage where statesmanship and capital are required to develop it. DEVELOPMENT SUGGESTIONS. Supplementing Mr. Carter's address with comments on the scheme and recommendations for development of policy, Mr. T. C. List presented to Lord Lovat for his consideration a report as follows: The chamber has 'demonstrated that it in possible to bring out and successfully settle English youths from 17 to J 9 years of age. If it has learned one thing more than another during the past four and a half years, it is that there must bo an organisation to care for and an interest in the training and welfare of the boys, who cannot be expected to drop into colonial ways and customs all at once, any more more than boys from New Zealand can be expected to settle down immediately and successfully in England. We have found that nearly every boy requires advice and help at one stage or another. And it has always been readily given. At no time is this interest more-neces-sary than when they desire to purchase property. The committee has a knowledge of local conditions, or has access to such knowledge, that the boys themselves cannot be expected to possess, and is in a position to disinterestedly advise the boys or their people. Whilst a number of the boys can secure financial backing from their people to make a start in farming after they have completed their course of training, the bulk cannot do so, and they at present must continue as farm workers, or go in for operating farms on what is known as the shares principle, hoping by such means to accumulate sufficient capital with which to make a start themselves, or in company with others later on. METHOD OF EXTENSION. It is the conside>yu opinion of our committee that the Janie has arrived for the New Zealand Government and the British Government to formulate a scheme by which this desirable type of immigrant may be given financial assistance to secure their own farms. We think that this would not be very difficult, and proffer the following suggestions in this connection in the hope that they may prove of service. Under the Land Amendment Act passed by Parliament last week, it is possible for two or more people to propound the cutting-up of a large farm, and if price and other conditions ore approved by the Land Board, the purchase can be effected with a deposit of five per cent. The land is either bought for cash or on the deferred payment system. We suggest that advantage be taken of this amendment, the money to be found for the purchase of the land by the British and New Zealand Governments in whatever proportions may be considered equitable. The boys, or their parents, would require to find not less than five per cent, of the purchase and sub-divisional improvements, and in addition the cost of the stock, or alternatively ten per cent, of the cost of the land, subdivisional improvements, and stock combined. This is not too much to expect of them or their parents, and would give them an interest in the property that is so desirable if they are to make successful farmers and give stability to the scheme. COMMITTEE ABLE TO ASSIST. In this connection, the committee feels that so far as Taranaki is concerned, it could be of service both to the boys and tho Governments. It could advise the boys and their parents and the Land Board as to the boys’fitness to undertake the liability. Such advisory powers might be extended to other organisations to carry on similar work throughout the Dominion, much on the same lines as the repatriation committees and boards carried on their operations subsequent to tho war.

The committee presumes that the money so advanced for the purchase of farms, could be repaid on the amortisation principle, say over a period of thirty years. Safeguards could be provided to prevent trafficing of land so purchased, as is now the ease with Crown tenants.

The committee is aware that there are thousands of people at Home who desire to place their boys on farms overseas, but are prevented by their inability to find the capital required to establish them. Under such a scheme as the above, they could no doubt do so, for it would not entail their finding, on a/ basis of ten per cent, of the cost of a £5600 fully stocked farm—and wo advocate small farms, such as from 65 to SO acres —• more than £5OO. In Taranaki, the most closely settled province of the Dominion, the average size of the holdings is 260 acres, and on tho Waimato Plains, where tho most productive land is, the nize is 130 acres. This shows that tho present 6442 holdings in the province can easily be subdivided into double that number. Experience has proved that a small farm, properly handled, will produce much more per acre than the larger holdings. RETIRED BRITISH PEOPLE. The committee would also like to submit its view regarding the settlement on the group system in New Zealand of superannuated and pensioned service men and their families from Great Britain and India. At present it is aware that great numbers of them find it difficult to make ends meet, do justice to the education of their children, and maintain their social positions on their pensions or superannuation. We suggest that they could be successfully transplanted to this Dominion to the advantage of all concerned. Land could be purchased in the suburbs of suitable towns in New Zealand and model villages created, the money to be found by the combined British and New Zealand Governments, the migrants depositing ten per cent, and repaying the balance over a period of years. Such a group settlement would give them a

community , of interest, and enable them to maintain a standard of living impossible at Home, at the same time affording their children an opportunity of securing a good education and a start in life in a new country with every prospect of ultimate success. In this work the services of a local advisory board, such as our organisation, -could be availed of -by the Governments and the migrants. It would keep in close touch with them for the first two years and be of subsequent help to tho Land Board actually controlling tho scheme. There is no reason why several settlements like this should not be established in the Dominion, but we advise, if the idea commends itself to the respective Governments, to try out the experiment in New Plymouth, where every facility and essential is provided, and we undertake to do everything we can to make it a success. VALUE OF PERSONAL TOUCH. The ideas were not altogether his own, added Mr. List, but were Jtho considered opinion of the committee based on the experience of the last four years. The committee had kept in very close touch with tho boys, and he supposed that not a day had passed during the past four years when one of the boys had not called to see either Mr. Carter or himself or one of the other members of the committee. It was absolutely necessary to maintain the personal touch. The boys required the advice and help of the committee, and it was gratifying to see how they had availed themselves of the committee’s help. The scheme had been inaugurated quite as an experiment, with the idea that if it proved successful it could be extended to the rest of New Zealand. Tho chamber felt it could help the Old Country by bringing out the boys, and also help its own country by obtaining the best class of immigrant to the Dominion. Lord Lovat observed that the scheme introduced, by the Taranaki Chamber, of Commerce was almost unique in the whole Empire. People ' at Home realised what had been done and the work put in by the committee. In supplementing the other members’ welcome to Lord Lovat, Mr. S. Vickers, president of the North Taranaki branch of the Farmers’ Union, said the farmers of Taranaki were intensely patriotic, and welcomed any person or movement that tended to lessen the distance between New Zealand and the Mother Country. As a practical farmer he could bear out all that Messrs. Carter and List had said regarding the success of the schoolboy scheme. Its success had, in fact, exceeded the highest expectations. The boys were of a splendid type, and were much in demand. Lord Lovat could readily see, however, that the whole success of the scheme and the future of the boys depended on the financial aspect. It might easily be that boys, however good they, might be as potential farmers, would remain as labourers very many years before becoming established on farms if they did not have any capital. He therefore felt that the chamber would be lacking in its duty if it did not attempt to outline softie proposal whereby the scheme inaugurated by the chamber could be enlarged. A WRONG IMPRESSION. Unfortunately the impression seemed to have gone abroad that there was no land in New Zealand left for settlement. When one took into consideration the amount of land there was under cultivation and the comparatively small population of the Dominion, it would be seen that there must be room for more people. Personally, he was convinced that a population of 5,000,000 in New Zealand would be better than the existing million and a half. Better results would be obtained with smaller holdings and more intensive cultivation. It was not necessary to open up more virgin land to absorb the people, continued Mr. Vickers. This would, in any ease, entail expensive loading, erection of schools and so on, which would be a heavy load on the new community. Anyway, he was afraid the class of people that would come out from England now would not be of the pioneer type to go into the virgin back country and make a success of it. But It was not necessary, for here in New Zealand there existed land that was already settled, but which if farmed more intensively by more population would give increased production. His object in making the remarks was to remove the impression that there was no land available for closer settlement. Mr. Vickers went on to refer to the working of the rural credits scheme, whereby farmers were assisted on to the land by the taking of their stock, chattels, etc., as security. Probably this scheme would not be applicable to the schoolboys, he said, but no doubt they could be linked up with the intermediate credit operations. Replying to a question from Mr. .Skevington as to what proportion of the required finance could be borrowed under the scheme, Mr. Vickers said it was largely a sympathetic measure, and a great many factors were taken into consideration. As a rule the most that would be advanced was about 65 per cent. AN INCREASING DEMAND. Mr. List pointed out that the 65 per cent, maximum was the old law, but under the recently amended law advances up to as much as 95 per cent, were provided for. Of course in such a case the committee would have to be very sure of its man. Touching once again on the keen demand for English boys, Mr. Vickers said that last year, when it was thought that owing to the conditions prevailing a halt might have to be called, there had been an increasing demand for boys. He was concerned to-day, not on account of there being no openings for boys, but regarding the opportunities and future of the boys themselves. Mr. McLeod pointed out that the personal touch given gratuitously by the committee was a very necessary thing. The business should not be done under a Government scheme or a land boom would assuredly result. The co-opera-tion of a local committee working on sound business lines with a sound knowledge of local conditions would ensure that no unwarranted inflation of land values occurred. Commenting on the system under which seventeen boys about 16 years of age had been sent to the High School to take an agricultural course for a year prior to going on the land, Mr. W. H. Moyes, headmaster of the school, said that the system had been on the whole successful. Ten out of the 17 had been very successful, and one had recently purchased a farm and had become well established. He was bound to point out that some had been failures, but they only illustrated the fact that insufficient care was exercised in the selection of the boys at Home. In the case of three of the boys, he was quite satisfied that they were sent out in order to be got rid of, and that they

had no intention of going farming. It appeared that in some cases the boys had not been consulted in the matter, and did not know what sort of a life they were coming to. One or two came out separately on an immigratiqn ship, together with a lot of adult immigrants, and the experience did not do them any good.

Mr. List mentioned that a number of boys, as instanced by Mr. Carter, were not now on the land, but most of them were doing very well, and the committee had been able to be of great assistance in placing them in positions. Mr. W. J. Freeth (Pukearuhe) supplemented what the other speakers had said regarding the success of the scheme, and said he could state from his own practical experience that the boys were turning out splendidly. Mr. Carter then banded to Lord Lovat a comprehensive schedule setting out tho eost of purchasing land and stocking it, and giving numerous details as to the cost of establishing oneself on a farm. LORD LOVAT’S CONGRATULATIONS. Lord Lovat said he was more than happy to convey from his own committee and from Mr. L. C. M. S. Amery thanks to the chamber for its valuable work in the cause of immigration. One of the first things he had been told when it was decided that he was to tour New Zealand was that the Taranaki Chamber of Commerce had a real interest in its scheme, and the work it did in this respect was well known and recognised at Home. On a great many points he was in agreement with the chamber’s views and recommendations. The after care of the boys during the period between their arrival and being placed on a farm and the time when they had become established on a, farm of their own was an important point. When the first novelty had worn off and the boys were being called on to settle down to hard work, the personal touch given by the committee meant all the difference between success and failure. He also agreed that at the stage when the boy had learnt his farming and was prepared to start himself it was very necessary to have the advice of a local committee. It w’as much better to have the .business conducted by a local committee in this manner than by the Government, for it was said that the mere fact of a Government official walking over a piece of land raised its eost a dollar a foot. As far as an extension of the schoolboy scheme was concerned he believed Britain had the boys, and he believed New Zealand had the demand for them. It ought, therefore, to be possible to “make things click.” But it must be remembered that Britain was strictly limited by the Overseas Settlement Act of 1922. It had been definitely agreed that in all financing of immigration schemes the principle of fifty-fifty as between Britain and the colony should be observed, and that principle could not be departed from. A second principle of great importance was the exact cost of any scheme, and he hoped he would be supplied with details as to the exact amount of money the proposed extension of the schoolboy scheme was going to cost the boys themselves and the Governments concerned. The remainder of Lord Lovat’s speech was of a confidential nature. Mr. Skevington, represtative of the British Treasury, observed that the cost of establishing a boy in New Zealand was considerably higher than in Canada. From the Treasury point of view it was advisable to have the capital put up by the people of the Dominion and the responsibility of the Home Government confined to the meeting of losses rather than the making of advances. And if the British Government undertook to bear a share of the losses of any settlement scheme, it must be sure that the chance of loss was reduced to a minimum. Obviously all the boys would not prove suitable, and it would be desirable to offer the assistance as a reward to those boys making good. Under such a scheme the best of the boys who showed their appreciation of the value of money by saving a given sum, were not afraid of hard work, and proved adaptable to local farming conditions, should be rewarded by financial assistance.

There ‘were, he submitted, four essential points to be taken into consideration. In the first place there must be a right selection of boys. Then the boys must be given a fair start, on a carefully selected farm purchased at a reasonable price. As a further safeguard the boys should be required to put up, say, £2OO of their own money, which would be the first charge against loss, and therefore an earnest of the boy’s good intentions and hard work. Lastly, the boys should be charged for their money a rate of interest slightly higher than that under which the Government obtains its money for financing the scheme, the difference to go towards the establishment of a fund as a safeguard against loss. If these four conditions were established, said Mr. Skevington, a large number of boys could be dealt with. It was impossible for the Treasury to put up a large amount of capital for each boy, and it must be sure that the business management of each boy’s venture rvas in capable hands. The Home Government must work on a fifty-fifty basis W’ith the local Government, and it should be made clear that before a boy got anything he should prove his fitness. Lord Lovat observed that it seemed a boy would take four years in a country to qualify for a loan by saving up his £2OO.

In reply to Mr. Carter, he said he could see no reason why a system, if one could be successfully arranged between the two Governments, should not be made retrospective to apply to some of the boys already in the Dominion.

He assured the deputation he would give their recommendations very careful consideration, and would later discuss them with the Premier. He hoped a representative of the chamber could come to Wellington to be available if he was required for further information.