THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE SURVEYOR.

Colonist, Volume XLIX, Issue 11938, 18 May 1907, Page 2

THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE SURVEYOR.

MAYOR'S MOTION CARRIED. At last night's meeting of the Citj Council the following letter from the City Surveyor was read :— "Gentleman,— l saw in last night's "Evening Mail" that his Worship the Mayor had given notice of motion that I be given three months' notice of the termination of my agreement with the Council, and that three months' leave of absence he given me on full pay. I beg to point out that I have been in the employ of the Council of the City of Nelson for five years, and that during tnat time I have always done my duty, and that there is not su far as I know, any cause for terminating my agreement. If my services are dispensed with in the manner proposed and without letting me know the reasons, and without giving me an opportunity of replying to such reasons (if any), it will be highly unfair to me, and is likely to do me much harm as a professional man, and will make it difficult for me to obtain another position. I beg to further point out that several charge 3 have been made against me in respect of my duties as City Surveyor, and that in every case, after a full enquiry has been made, I have been exonerated. The majority of the members of the Council are new members, and cannot have sufficient knowledge of the facts oi! the matters that have been brought against me to be able to judge whether they are true or nor, and I respectfully eubir it that before you, gentlemen, go to the extent of dispensing with my services, that you should let me know the reasons n? 1 " cause a full enquiry to be mado uofore all of you into the v.v.uaer m which I have performed my duties as City Surveyor, and that you should give me an opportunity of replying, and I respectfully ask you as gentlemen of honor and as the representatives of the citizens to give me fair play, which 1 have the right to expect from you, and them, and fortawith to make the enquiry which I suggest." Cr Grace moved that consideration be deferred until the Mayor's motion came on. Cr Franklyn seconded. Cr Hampson considered that the letter should be dealt with at once, and moved : — "That the City Surveyor's request for a public enquiry be granted and that a board of investigation be set up consisting of a representative appointed by the City Council, a representative appointed by the City Surveyor, these two to appoint a third, who together shall nave all the powers of.a Court of Arbitration to subpoena witnessos and take evidence as to the general administration and conduct of the City^Surveyor during his term of office, and to submit their findings and recommendations if any to this Council at as early a date as possible. The proceedings to be public or in camera at the discretion of the representatives, and that either or both the City '. Council and Surveyor may be repre- ; sen ted by counsel should they so , desire. That during the investigation and until the Court shall bring '■ in its findings the City Surveyor be ! relieved from office with full pay for ' such period. " This was greeted by loud applause from the audience, which the Mayoi suppressed. Cr^Hampson said he moved thus in the interest of righteousness and the honor of the City. He held no brief for the Surveyor, and knew him but little, but when that officer came to the Council he came with the highest credentials. He had been with them five years, and upon every charge made publicly he had been exonerated. Under these circumstances it was only right as the Surveyor had appealed to Caesar that to Caesar he should go. An impartial tribunal would tell them whether he had been true to his trust and acted in the best interests of the City. It had been said that a Corporation had nc soul to be damned «nd no body to be kicked, but for the honor of the City something should be done that they might have the reputation oi believing in fair play. Certain charges wero made in connection with the Gas Works when the Council called in the best expert in New Zealand, who commended all that had been done. The Designing Engineer of the drainage scheme had declared that their Surveyor was perfectly capabla. He urged thai they should see that their righteousness was done righteously. A member of the Council on his returr from Sydney had informed him thai there he had heard the highesi enconiums passed on their Surveyor, one engnieer declaring him fullj competent to design and carry nul their drainage scheme. (Cr Light band: Hear, hear.) Accusations had been made right and left, (To* Mayor: We have nothing to do with outside matters) and constant droppings would wear a stone. Ht had"heard things said which if true, their officer should be within stone walls, but, if they were untrue, those who made them should bo there. Ht quoted "He who steals my purse steals trash, but he who filches from me my good name, taKes that which not enriches him but makes me poor, indeed, "and he contended that to dismiss an officer without an enquiry would be grossly unjust as damaging his subsequent'earear. The least thej could do was to submit Ih° nr^ *" an impartial tribunal aou an,., i report, the Mayor's resolution could come on. He believed that the Councilors were sent there by the people to see that right was done, and to see that their funds were rightly expended, but not at the expense of the'eharacter of any indi-

ridual or bis professional career. It vould ill become the Mayor or any )f them to do a wrong to any man tnd if they treated men likeithis ;hey would nevm- get good meo."!i,He aoped it could never be said of Nelson as he saw it had been in a jase whereU an Alderman proceeded against a man for pulling bis nose, bhat such a procedure could not be regarded as an assault seeing that bhe Aldermen had so long been led by the. nose by the Mayor. Cr Bisley seoonded the measure. He did not think the matter could be debated. They could do no less than grant the Surveyor's request. As a new Councilor he knew nothing of any charges though he had read that charges had been enquired into and dismissed. He thought the Surveyor was justified in his aotion. Cr Grace said it was not quite true that the Surveyor had been acquitted on all the charges. It was charged that he disregarded a resolution and ordered goods, and on that ho was held guilty, but those charges were all buried, they were not before the Council at present. He complained of his actions in connection with the Septic Tank, but no charges were formulated, and as to outside charges the remedy was to bring a case in the Magistrate's Corut. (The Mayor:. Hear, hear. ) The Surveyor had never complained that his duties were too heavy. Cr Field said they were told they (had nothing to do with charges made outside, but it appeared to him that they must be very careful to see that by their action they did not tactitly endorse those charges. The Surveyor had taken up the position : I have done no wrong— and that was, he thought, a perfectly proper stand* Their duty was to put an end to the quarrels that had been going on, and to get on with their business. In tne interests of fair play, they were bound to give the Surveyor the chance of answering his accusers, and of showing that he had right behind his back. He asked for fair play, and they could not afford to give him less.

Toe Mayor said that twice Or Hampson had moved for Committees of Enquiry, and he insinuated that he had proposed men on one side. He did not then think of going outaide the Gouncl. He said that it did not signify what was said outside. He thought the ratepayers had decided. (Cries of No from outside the bar). He was sorry this came up, for it would not be carried. . Or Franklyn said it fell to that Council to do the cleaning up business, and they had to face it. He had made up his mind, but Or Hampson had forestalled them. He was as anxious for fair play as anyone, and he had no animus, but he had watched the Council business, and he confessed that he had formed his own opinon. He was driven to the conclusion that something must be done. He objected to anyone coming in as arbiter, and it was for them to carry out their pledges to the best of their judernent and skill. As to a commission, he said . that was useless without sworn testimony. If they held an enquiry, and the Surveyor was exonerated, they would be no further from a deadlock than thsy were then. The ratepayers had appointed their Chief Executive Officer, and they had a Council officer at incessant logger heads with him. lhat could not go on in the interests of the ratepayers. He instanced the case of an employer and man, and said the former had the right to dismiss the latter if he did not suit him. He did not call in a tribunal, and would not allow one. The employer had a right to dispense with services if he desired, and though the man did not suit him he might suit another. Cr Robertson oppoe°'l the amendment ou the grouDo i economy. In his mind, the I'.jgineer had not studied the i .crests of the ratepayers, and hj montioDed the dam oontrart • u ras. (J/ Snodgrass said that regarding one dam contract the Surveyor was shown to be entirely in the right. Ho came there with an open mind, and if it had been shown that the Sur/eyor was not the man for the place he would have been ready to act;. Cr Grace had referred to the purchase of a beam which he got for 3s over the umouut be was allowed to order, and tbe Council endorsed his action. (Or Grace denied this, and made an explanation. ) He said it would be most drastic to remove the Engineer because the Mayor could not agree with him. Or Franklyn's simile of an employer was altogether different. If the Surveyor was proved innapable he would support his dismissal, but not otherwisee, and if there were valid charges surely there would be no difficulty in proving them. i The Mayor replied to Cr Snodgrass, and said he had never quarrelled with the Surveyor. Cr Lightband opposed the motion. He referred to the septic tank, and said he thought it was time for a parting. Cr JbJisley asked the Mayor if he would allow the Surveyor to give • any information refuting what 'had been said? The Mayor: No. The explanation i had been made before. The question was then put, and ; the amendment was lost on a division by 6to 4. Ayes: Crs Field, Snodgrass, iJisley and Hampson. ■ Noes: Crs Lightband, Robertson, i Franklyn, McConchie, Grace and - the Mayor. < j Cr Grace then asked leave to with- ' ilraw his motion deferring considera- • tion. Cr Hampson objected, but the > Mayor ruled him out of order. : Cr Hampson pointed out that the letter had not been dealt with, and i asked the Mayor to give reasons for his ruling. : The Mayor said he ruled it out of ; order, but Cr Frankiyn suggested tnat the Mayor was in error, where- ; upon Cr Grace said he would let his i motion go, and it was carried. The > letter being thus deferred till the motion came on later, when ; The Mayor then morad : — "That in order to effect administrative rej form conducive to efficiency and i ceonomy, the City Surveyor be herei by given three months' notice of the j termination of his agreement with [ this Council, and from the date of > the notice, three months' leave of absence be given him on full pay." i He believed that the ratepayers i solved tho question when they reE turned himself and rejected those i Councilors opposed to him. That l was the highest Court of Appeal ■ they could go to. They were returned r, with a mandate for efficiency and t economj'. He believed the most ; economical method was to hand over 1 the streets to a foreman of practical 3 experience. The next thing was to t band the Gasworks over to Mr Hart, • who had had 23 years' experience, - and who had carried them on for i periods of months. They must have b a good Engineer to carry out the b Drainage works in the best manner, and most expeditiously. He hoped / the discussion would be short, good b tampered and to the point. He re- - grettod that the othei matter had not I been discussed at tbe same time. If 3 they carried this, he believed they i would soon be in a good position, t and if Crs would assist him they i would soon show a good position. , Cr Franklyn seconded the motion. i It was frequent that a Council had 3 to do an unpleasant thing, and this 3 was one of the most unpleasant ) things a Council had to undertake. i It was painful. (The Mayor. Hear, i hear. ) This was a clearing up action. , They had to consider what was best ) at this juncture. With an officer ' unable to work harmoniously with \ the Chief Executive member they • could not deal with the Executive - Officer. If the Crs had not confi--o_ce in their official it would de« I volve on them to go round and see j that things were carried on properly. i He had no animus against the officer and if he had any hope of a more harmonious condition he would reconsider.his decision, but he saw no hope. It was useless listening to

the man in the street, and; aftei forming judgment he saw nothing but to .hand over things^to the rate payers,' or appoint a man'who woulc work amicably. »— S^ 1 "O^Z. Ur Snodgrass! We are not ledtc believe that there is any want of inefficiency, but the proposal isjx abolish, the oflic9. •*— The Mayor said that was not.; in the motion. That was^merelyjns advice. *i ! Or Saodgraßs said the motion covered the abolition of the office, and that, he thought, was inostjinwise. The Mayor thought Or Snodgrass was out of order. His motion did no say so. Cr Snodgrass said the interpretation of the motion had been given. fle said ho thought it foolish to abolish the office. They had a lot of work authorised, and a capabale n-an was needed for carrying this out. Even in drainage the man with loca l knowledge would have to be consulted. Cr Field agreed that they should approach the subject on broad principles, so they should grant the Engineer tbn enquiry he asked for. The motion aflWfced -the whole administration of the city, and so important a matter si ould not be sprung on the peorlo. Your motion starts with dismissing the Surveyor, and I tbiuk it starts in the wrong direction. The economy proposed is very tempting, l/ut fo'iuay grasp at a shaddow and lose the substance. They were committed to heavy expenditure at present, and he asked, could a foreman supervise all that was At times a foreman might do all the work, and Mr Hart might conduct the Gasworks, but was that possible at present ? The side issues of the motion were more important than the dismissal or not of the Surveyor. It appears to me that the word efficiency is almost libellons. Are we going to lay ourselves open to an action? Ho moved as an amendment — '"Thnt a Committee of the whole Council be set up to enquire into the administration of the City Surveyor's Department, and to enquire into the economy and efficiency, or otherwise, of the City Surveyor's administration: to consider the advisableness. or otherwise, of putt in.an end to the present unfortunate state of thinga between the City Surveyor and the Council. That during the enquiry the City Surveyor be suspended on full pay; that the j Committee toko evidence, and keep a full record of same, and report to the Council '" Cr Bisley sceonded the amendment, but ho thought it would he a waste of money to" suspend the Engineer on full pay. Cr Field sa?d that he considred it would ho. fairer to give leave while the Enquiry wa3 on. The Mayor suid it was getting very late, and tnlliing was useless. He supposed Cr3 had made up their minds Cr Bisley hoped that Crs bad cot made up their minds. lie said any faults with the Engineer had rever been given to the ratepayers, and if the Mayor had made statements, neither the Mayor nor Crs Light' and and Grsr-o would be in the Council. I am .'.ili-aid icy friend on my ri-ht did nut; bring an open mind to-night. IT is mind was apparently made up to dismiss the Surveyor if he could. Or Franklyn rose to a point of order, and snid Cr Bisley had exceeded '/nod taste in making so many p3rsonfil inferences to himself. Lie wag still a eilizen, and it mattered not when he formed his opinion. Cr 13 isle}' said he agreed with Cr Snodgrass re gasworks, and believed they should have independent management. They should get some £600 a year from ammonia there. He opposnri the motion and said he considered it. unfair to younger Councilors, for they knew nothing of ehange3 made in the past. Cr Grace nvpasently knows something, but he did not. Cr frampson .bad. said all be would say, but ha *as bound to enter his protest agniust this cruel motion. The Mayor said the word 'cruel" was not parliamentary. ! Cr llampson thought it was, j but he was bound to withdraw it. From tho reports he had had theSurvoyor hr.d I. ecu shosvn to have done good work. He referred to Mr Atkinson's report when Cr Webley said it was satisfactory to the ratepayers and to the City Surveyor. The reason of the friction bad been the bias existing and the Mayor said he had a grievance. The Mayor : Only a public one. Cr llampson: We aie only considering public business, and I am tcld thst threo years ago you moved a similar motion. If the Surveyor was wrong ha should be dealt with, but if ho vvos not wrong he should be protected, i can see there may be times when sn official must be sacrificed to whim*, if they be so called, of an electorate. It was eaid there should be no sentiment. I wish I could thick there was no sentiment. You have accused me of proposing biased committees, but I say when I came here I knew no parties, and my actions were for the good of the City. It the Surveyor has done wrong, I say we have no right to waste the public's money by paying him for three months. But if he has done wrong it should ba proved. I do not think that the majority that Eent you to that chair intended your first duty should be to dismiss the Ergiiieer. Jf he is not the man to take charge, that should be proved, and wo hnve no right to send a man away with charges hanging over his head. He would be prepared to move another amendment, fcnnt Crs Franklyn and Bisley should — (Tne Mayor: You can't move now.) I must pretest against what I consider a gross wrong. Cr Field rose and intimated his willingness to alter his motion to read: "by the Council or Committee appointed by the Council. Cr Grace objected. Cr SnocJgraas said that if charges made were valid charges, they should know it. The Mayor: You said it. Cr Snodgrass: This is another of your charges, but it is false. He said now his eyes had been opened to the persecution to which Mr Henderson had been subjected. The only candidates who spoke of dismissing the Surveyor were rejected. Cr Robertson and he himself had said rjothing. Be wanted to know what <vas .going on, and if there was reason for the dismissal of the Surveyor he would support his dismissal. Cf Gtace referred to Cr Bisley's rerun rks. and said that he had distinctly called the .Engineer to task in reference to his carrying out of the Septic Tank contract. A great deal bad been said about giving the Surveyor: fair play. He said the Surveyor bad been most kindly treated. His agreement was altered in bis favor though the Mayor opposed. The Councilors had a riaht to dismiss any officer. He asked how the Surveyor returned the kindness. It was laid down that the Engineer should have power to order up to £5, I think, but up to £20 if he got the order of the Mayor or two Councilore. How did he treat this? lie overrode the resolution by ordering a piece of tiinbur. Cr Hampson asked the amount he was authorised. Cr Grace said the order was for £20 .3s. But the resolution was broken because it was not ordered tbrou.h the Town Clerk The amendment was then put, and lost, on the voices. Ur Snodgrasa moved and Cr Bisley seconded aD amendment that a Committee of the whole Council be set up to enquire into the City Survey Department and administration. This was negatived onjjhe voices. Ur Harnpson moved * a further amendment that Crs Franklyn and Field, with two gentlemen to be nominted by the Surveyor enquire and report to the.Council. This, was also negatived. .The motion was then carried on a division,by 6to 4. Ayes, Crs Lightband, Robertson, Franklyn, Grace,

McConchie, and ; the Mayor ;' noes Os Field, 4 Snodgrass, Uisley, an( tfampson, The meeting terminated a minuti or^,two before midnight, ~^\vhcn tb( Conncil Avent^into Committee.*^ As tho people presont loft,! three cheers werejgiven for Mr Henderson ,