Sir George Grey in Invercargill.

Southland Times, Issue 9164, 12 March 1886, Page 2

Sir George Grey in Invercargill.

. ♦ Probably over 1200 persons assembled in Sloan's Theatre yesterday evening for the purpose of hearing the political address which, it was announced Sir George Grey would deliver, among the audience being a large number of ladies. The chair was occupied by the Mayor, and the following gentlemen were on the platform : — Messrs Hatch, Joyce, Bicbardson, and Cowan, Ms.H.R., and Messrs H. Feldwick, T. Daniel, and P. Dalrymple. The Chairman, in a few words, intro duced the speaker, asking for him that attentive hearing to which he, as a gentleman, well known throughout the British Empire, was entitled. Sir George Grey was received with loud and long continued applause. He said he proposed that evening to bring under their notice those measures which he believed would have an almost instantaneous effect in very materially lightening the depression prevailing throughout tbe country. He would first call their attention to the position ofjthe town in which they were assembled. He believed that all persons now admitted that, having such an extensive district which must necessarily trade with it, with such a harbour, with the undoubted fertility of the country which surrounded and legitimately belonged to it, there was a most important future before Invercargill. Considering these things he believed that whatever depression temporarily existed, the future of the town mußt be very prosperous indeed. That prosperity might, however, be much augmented by good measures, and its benefits extended to a larger section of the community. It was therefore their duty to consider what line of legislation they _bould follow out in order to lead this town, in common with all New Zealand, to that degree of prosperity which Providence had evidently placed within its grasp. He would call attention to the circumstances connected with the birth of the town. A.t that time their position was a most admirable one, in fact be was certain that in no portion of the world had such prospectß been before tbe population. If they reflected they would see that at that period a vast tract of ooantry of great fertility was entirely at their own disposal, unembarrassed by native claims and rights such as were met with in connection with the land in tbe north. They had had no such difficulties to contend witb ; the land had lain open aa if it were mutely imploring them to deal justly with tho territory with which they had been entrusted, not to give it way into tbe hands of a few, but to keep it in their own hends for the benefit of all. With these advantages they had a simple modest Government, costing little, and were absolutely free from dubt aod mort gage, and they had also the circumstance in their favour that they enjoyed some of the most free institutions in the world. Great writers of antiquity such as Aristotle had said that great coinuionitiee alona were made, and justice secured to all, where every man could become a legislator if elected by "his fellow citizens, when. every man could take part in public business. During ;.the time of the Provincial Government those in tbis district had the opportunity of raising up legislators amoDgst themselves, of choosiDg men to fill public positions from those with whom they were acquainted. The Government was simple and inexpensive, and altogether better prospects fhan those of this part of the colony bad never been held out to man. At that time no one could have expected that such a depression as that from which they were sufEaring could have overteken them in this part of the world. The provincial institutions had been done away witb, and many of thos3 who had been instrumental in wiping them away bad since told^him, and told the public, that they regretted tbe step they had taken, and saw now that a great error had been made. The difficulty was that no State could stand still for an instant ; every day aa imperceptible change took placfl, and the past could never be restored. They could not go back, but must make some advance, and to what that advance should bo he intended to direct tho attention of his hearers that night. He had some claim to try and lead the puhlto on thia eubject, for the bssis upon which they were established had been in a great measure called into existence by himself, aided by many able men. A few of those men were still in the colony, and if they were consulted, he belipved they would agree with him on tho main points of the proposals he intended to lay before that meetiDg. In regard to the question ; What was tba present position of the colony? he thought ha could not put the matter better before them than by quoting from a dispute between the present Colonial Treasurer aorl the member for Hawkes Bay. Tho Colonial Treasarer was taunted with the state of the colony, and in reply he directed attention to what he said had been done for the country by the great Public Works policy, as he called it. He quoted the fact that between Wellington and Napier there were ten families holding property worth two millions, which property would not bave been worth more than irom Ll ß,ooo to L 20.000 had it not been for the Public Works expenditure. Even in this instance he (the speaker) did not think tho properties had been acquired with strict justice or in strict conformity wiih tho iaw, but apart from that to whom did the increase in the value rightly belong? To tho^ who slept and toiled not while the valuo grew, or to those from whose pockets the mocey was taken to make the public works, ai.d from whom tbe money was still being taken in the chape of interest on the expenditure? In his opinion it was to the people of New Zealand that the increase in the value of these properties of ritilit belonged. The interest paid yearly nmount6d to L 3 Is 7d for every man, woman and child in the colony. What justice was there in making any little ehilrt want food or clothing, any wife or working man suffer discomfort to bestow enormous benefits upon these ten families and others of the same class, without receiving back any corresponding benefit for themselves ? Every candid mind would admit that he was right, and that to hand down such a burden as he had indicated to another generation waa what they should endeavour to avoid. Taking into consideration tho taxation to be paid, not only for tbeae public werks, but upon the necegsarie* of life, it waa an absolute fallacy to advantageous'y compare a working man'« wag-s in New Zealand with those of a working man in England. Such :i sUtti of tilings did not exist in Eagland ; there was a national debt certainly for which the working men were taxed, but that debt had been incurred for the protection of tba country, for her maintenance as a nation, and not for the benefit of a few. Here, a smell number of individuala held vaßt areas which were tho property of all, and which had been ob!a ; ne.l by arrangeaien'B which should never have b*en made Some, agricultural lands had been selected in Buch a way as to render valueless to any persons but the selectors other land in the vicinity. Thus there waa taken from the people what was their right, the fair value of these adjoining lands. On the occasion he had referred to the Colonial Treasurer bad taunted h's tauntera by saying that fhsir object was to reduce the price of labour, and that was what the peoplo had to guard against. This question of the reduction of wages was .very little considered. They were all merely servants of the public, from the highest officers down to the workiog men ; thera waa a difference oi: rank, but all were practically on the aame footing, To keep salaries at ' in unnecsegsaFily gigi) rata w»y m iaj^rjp

to the individual as well as to tbe State, ' leading, him into extravagancies of living which he might not afterwards be able to maintain. Then, on the other hand, a vast majority were badly paid, and so were also unjustly treated. Coming down to the men employed at public workf,he would mention that be bad seen gangs of them coming from their labours in the evening, and although he had watched their faces he had not seen in one a gleam of hope or happines3. If the price of labonr were reduced generally it might be a great-ad-vantage, but to reduce tbe wages of a class only waß to degrade that class. Ha wished tha working men to understand that on account of the heavy taxation they bad to their wages were really not what they seemed to be. A young man might live on 4a 6d per day, but a man with a wife and four children could not do so and pay taxation amounting to 2s 9d per week. Then aa years went on, and the population increasd the wages would fall and the position of these working men's families wou!d become more and more distressing. Such a state of things ehould not be allowed to exist, and the question aross : — What should they do to solve the difficulty ? In the proposals he would make he intended to do that which wbb right and just to the future population, and at the same time avoid any injury to the present. Something would have to ba done ; the present Btate of things oouid not be allowed to continue. They all knew that the people of England were rising against this cvi 1 , although it was not so great there as here ; they alUknew that a great change was imminent, and must come. Let the New Zeahnd colonists show that such a change could be made without uproar or riot, and without any individual being able to put hia hand on his breast and say, {l I have been wronged.' ' This could be done easily, and he would show how. Let them assert two great principles. The first was that the land under all circumstances belonged to the people, whatever had been done by the previous generation ; that no generation could deprive another generation of a right which belonged to it. Next let them say they will exercise their right and claim, and do so without injury to anyone. The lands they had to deal with were (1) these still the property of tbe Crown ; (2) the Native lands ; and (3) the lands already granted to individuals by the Crown, 'in regard to tho Crown lands he was in favour of sweeping away tho present Land Act altogether, aa he did not like any of its mass of systems and provisions, and opening them on the simple plan he would explain. As to the native lands he believed that owing to the malpractice of speculators in the past, the natives would no doubt sell back their areas co the Government under his proposed system. Then there were the lauds held by private individuals, and in connection with them it must be remembered that there was a great danger hanging over the heads of the owners, that unless this question were settled no one knew what tbe future would be. Who knew what the populations of EnglanJ, Ireland, and Scotland would insist upon in reference to the land? This danger was impending, and he proposed that th^y should go to the owners and say " We are willing to come to a perfectly fair and just settlement with you, we want tbe land for the people, bnt we will only tako it at its value and on perfectly fair terms." Tbe value, including the unearned increment, could be ascertained from the property tax assessment, and allowance made for depreciation in value through the depression. The people would Bay " Let the past be past, but we intend to get at the unearned inorement in the future by a land tax, not in totality but as required. We want the land opened for settlement, so that every man would have the opportunity once in life of taking a farm upon such terma as would be profitable to him." This might be easily done, and the system would be peculiarly' applicable to this part of the colony. The circumstances of New Zealand were different from those of the other colonies, inasmuch as instead of one very large important centre, it had a variety of towns, connected by railways and roads in all directions. Tho lands between these town, he proposed should be cut up into farms :of 160 acres — the area tnit;ht be altered if found advisable — and valued ac cording to their size, situation and soil, so that the sum total might equal the amount given by tho Government for the land. Theee farms would be let at four per c«nt. on the vslue, bo that the occupiers would thereafter pvy that per centage as a quit rent, a_-J t'-.o proparty bs kept by himself and b'B auf^ssors perpetually. Ha (tho SBttler) vvoul.i \v*ik on to his farm without having paid a penny to got there, he wouM not be in debt nor subject to heavy interest-— as no doubt the Government oottld easily get tho money for the purchase of the land at four per csnt. — and by simply paying bia quit rent he and hia family would remain in undisturbed possession. The position would be this :— No man would be a debtor to anothor ; no mm wouM be compelled to borrow to completo his purchase ; all the money he had he could put on tbe land in cultivation. Another advantage would be this, that families settled on tbe land in that form would certainly produce enough for their own wants, and not oaly that, but would live in comparative comfort. If there was loss at a!!, it would be comparatively insignificant, and would not entail absolute ruin, such as the depression waa entailing at the present time. Plow were they to get the money to do this V Those who took the trouble to study tho question would see that very little money was required. He proposed to give a preference of purchasing to those who sold the properties— if they took this mode of payment — to give land bonds bearing interest at four per cent., or even lees. These bonds woul>-l have this aa vantage over others—there would b 9 the mortgage on the land — and tha same seouuty oa tho Scate that all other eeoimtti-a had. In such a^case, if such a dreadful event took p'.aoe a3 (hs Goveramant stopping payment the bonds would still bo payable by th) hoUera of the property. They would mt be like Govfrnnl-mt soenrities, piyable from revenuo, they would be payable from first to lact out of the pockets of the occupiers of the land. Tha security, with the guarantee of the Sta'.p, would bo perfect. That was the plan i.y which In proposed to pay for the lands. It was not creating a National debt ; h« did n-->t propose borrowing thirty or forty mil'ims to do this work. That was Lnieceßßary ; little more than v few hundred thousand pounds, perhaps a million in tbe first instance, which conld easily be arranged, would suffice, b' cause as the 1 in 1 was sold, others woul'd'b-j purchissd, the thing going on repeating itself ! each Hale repaying part of the money expended. After sketching furthsr advantages of the plan he said it would enable those burdened now to exohange a position of discomfort for one of comfort ; there would be nothing to prevent a man tßkiDg a farm for himself. What under such a system would be the position of tbe country at large ? Suppose the plan outlined was carried out on a considerable soale, and people flying from Australia on accouDt of the drought there, were to come i here ; that the borne farmers came here instead of goiog to Canada ; that a largß population was attracted to this colony and the waste lauds occupied, what would be the posit ; on of tha town ,of Invercargili ? Would it not be put a century in advance at once ? A few years would suffice to put it in % position it pould not reach in less tban a century of the present system. Haviag pointed oat the benefits to be dedve.4 by suqh & plao b£ otfe^rg^tho^

who did not wish to occnpy the land—he submitted that the more the proposals were considered the more it would be seen that they provided for almost every case that could be supposed ; farmers, shopkeepers, merchants, all would be beaefitted. Would the money lenders also be benefitted ? He answered, yes-they would '• get out of the fire," a portion they could hardly hope to reach just now Would they who went on (Ke'Jland be benefited ? On this . point he asked old settlers to decide which would have the best chance — they who struggled on without roads or railways, or they who had both at their command? If such a plan as that mooted were adopted a boon would be conferred on every man in New Zealand, an.d, as far as he could see, without thef slightest | injury being done to any one, wfiile ,is he believed, no sane man for suchl a small rental as would be on the properly would foil to avail himself, of what in the decline of life should ba a cherished sanctuary. He had opportunities of seeing the system at work in other countries, and he never in one case saw a failure. It was that system which had made the great Boer population of South Africa what it is ; one that never knew what want meanß. The land there was all purchased from the Datives, and every young CQiiple on starting life> together took up a farm where they wished. They asked no one for leave to settle, they eiaiply paid their quit rent, settled down on an independent footing, and that had been the case for the last two centuries. Under it the whole nation had grown <- 0 greatness, with a sense of: manhood and freedom which, though it might make us angry with them we could not fail to admire. Their perfect freedom from want ; perfect freedom from servitude, created such a feeKjq^in the Boers as no one who had not witnessed its effects would believe. Yet they were considered ignorant men. The fact was that on the contrary, some of the most cultivated gentlemen he knew were Boers, Their clergymen were all selected in Edinburgh ; they were Presbyterians of the strictest type; on the whole as fine a nation as could be found on the earth and for two centuries had had ia operation the plan sketched. Any ques« tion a 8 to a difficulty in the matter of quit rents might therefore be dumiased. Oa this poiut he might tell them news— that was that Torrens' Act was a copy of that in force in Africa for two centuries. The lawyers did not like it— it cost nothing to transfer an estate from one person to another — it was the quit rent forms that were transferred, and which gave rise to that Act for which we were so much indebted. He then asked them to look at the great companies that were formed on a so-called benevolent principle. (laughter). He had been looking over a prospectus of one of them, and he found that they were so benevolent that they provided for churches and chapels, but none of the farmers who were assisted by it had succeeded, and now, he >vas told, there was only one left. Why ? Because the farmers gave too much for their land, It ruined them to buy in the way they did, but then the^ lawyers wbo prepared the deeds were delighted. At the Cape a man could go to the office and for ten ehillings get hie title to all the land he wanted. The speaker Baid he would like to dwell on many of the advantages of the system did time perjait, but proceeded to another point with which it was connected, the unearned increment. He thought that if that had been sacrificed by th 6 State in the past, it must take such a portion of it as should be wanted in the future. In a converßa* tion lately a farmer told him that he paid no land tax, only a property tax. To his surprise the farmer did not seem to know that that tax embraced the moat obnoxious land tax in the world, because under it he paid on all his im' provements and on all hia implements, and it crushed him at last. , Farmers at tha present time were sinkiDg under taxes and rates, more than they could support, yet they pnid this heavy land tax besides. He proposed a land tax, but not on improvementß ; that it should be paid on the value of tbe land only. Having illustrated how Ibis should be done, the speaker went on to say that the tax should not be too heavy— though this was not likely to hap. peD, as so many would be intereated in seeing that it did not rise too high, there being always a strong party in Parliament able carefully to watch what is done in thia.direotion and save thetneelvee from any injustice. He believed, further that the syetem he advooated would have an nppreciable effect on the character of the wbole population, by giving every one a prospect before him. Having illustaated tm at some length, aud pictured thereaulfc in glowing terms, the speaker went on td enforce the right of the State to unearned increment, or such proportion of it as public necessity required. Thai, however, alone would not save the people here at the present dull time. To remove the depreo* Bion they must complete tbe public works in progreß3, and to do that it would be neceeßary to increase the public debt But they were to remember that in truth no nation stood still in the matter of pabllo works— they had to go on, and to do tbia borrowing was necessary. Oa this point he would cay a word oa a friend to work■^til Jt Waa Baid ' thou S h he denied it, that their mind was « let us borrow too, twelve, or fifteen million-., and get it spent and get good wages while it laste—we care for nothing, what we want is high wages day by day." He did not think there was such a labouring man in the colony ; and if there wb& he would get higher wages under such a system as tba speaker advocated than under any other, Aa to perinacent work — the only way to secure that for generating to come was by utilising the laud. Ho referred to aa interview which tbe Premier had with some working men who sought employ meot when he (the Premier) had ex* prosß-d tbe desiro to get the interview over as speedily aa possible, as he had another meeting to attend and he wanted some refreshment. The refreshment be required at tho time was all-im-portant, tbe refrebbments that these men's familiea might want for years was a matter of no consequence. This did no 6 coma from hardneeaa of heart but from familiarity wilh cases of dietrops. It wao the Sitne throughout the world. In Eng< land there w«re many excsllent men, some frotfi the schools and colleges, labouring amongst the poor, and striving to alleviate their Bufferings, y«jt the nation would not make one great effort to throw off the evil, they would not apply a thorough and radical remedy, and tho oaae became worse and worse. His Bnal appeal to his hearers was to exercise the power they had at the next elections in the way of securing leaislation of tho nature ho proposed/ and toy would attract farmers from the . Cl Co °fy b y hundreds, to the penefit of the colony and to tbo incalculable a 1 vantage of Britain. If tha system were also followed in tbe other colonies tbo result would be a great relief to England in her distress, and the people of New Zealand would be famous, and justly famous, in the annals of the world'B history for all lime to come.— (Sneers and long continued applause.) The speaker was interrupted by applause and expressions of approval at frequent intervals during bis address. The Mayor stated tbat Sir George would be happy to explain any point which the audience might think he had not made sufficiently clear. Mr A. Raeside asked what Sir George's opinion was on Freetrade v. Protection* Sir George Grey eaid that waa like asking him to make another speech. He would say at one© that he was adverse to $>»ttiߣeach. high datup Qg-tyeßtttaMtfeo

of life as wou!d entail great discomfort on 'the poor of New Zealand. The present Customs duties were quite high enough and he would be inclined as one reduction to take the protective duty off eugar. Rather than endeavour to foster the cultivation of beet, he would encourago (he preserving of fruits, which would, he was certain, be more profitable. ' Mr B, Rutland asked if, in view of the . present depression, Sir George did not think it would be wise to 3top borrowing. Sir George Grey said if a patient was ■offering ho Wild not deprive him altogether of food. He was favourable to borrowing to such an extent as was necessary, bnt no further. N Mr Rutland— You believe in being in debt like everybody olse 1 .The Chairman explained that Sir George was not addressing bis constituents, and could not be questioned as if he were. He (Sir George) was willing to explain •ny point in his address wliich had not -■ been made sufficiently clear, but questions ''■ on other subjects would be out of order. (Applaues.) • Mr fT. P. Joyce, M.H.R., said Sir George had been good enough to favour tho meeting with his ideas on the subject of the nationalisation of the land jo a manner that was new to them, and he (Mr Joyce) Was quite fure what had been said would . receive their most serious consideration. For honouring the to Jvn bj visiting it first, 05 almost first on his present tour, - iod' for having so patiently and so thoroughly bo tlined the scheme w hich he J thought would benefit the colony, Sir George deserved from the. meeting a cordial and unanimous vote of thanks. He (Mr Joyce) moved accordingly. Mr P. Dairy mple seconded the motion, and advised all present to go home and think over what had been said that evening. The motion was put and declared unanimously carried amid loud applause. Sir George Grey acknowledged the compliment, and said he would always do his best to serve Inverca.gill in any * ' manner he aould. * A vote of thanks to the chairman closed the meeting.