PROBLEMS OF IRRIGATION.

Otago Witness, Issue 3860, 6 March 1928, Page 26

PROBLEMS OF IRRIGATION.

CENTRAL OTAGO’S DIFFICULTIES

DEPUTATION TO MINISTERS.

The rumours of ouscontent and dissatisfaction with the administration of the Public Works Department in the irrigation settlements of Central Otago were proved to be very real, when about 30 representatives of irrigation fanners waited upon the Prime Minister (Mr J. G. Coates), the Minister of Public Works (Mr K. S. Williams) and the Minister of Lands (Mr A. D. M‘Leod) at the Railway Conference Rooms on Saturday morning. The stories told by the various speakers included allegations of mismanagement, extravagance and unsympathetic administration, the last-named charge being levelled at the Department from almost every settlement. Its constant repetition at length moved the Prime Minister to interject, and he had little difficulty in demonstrating how little lack of sympathy there had been in recent administration. The deputation urged upon the. Government the necessity of setting up a royal commission to investigate every aspect of irrigation-

The Prime Minister, in reply, mentioned the forbearance of the Government in respect of arrears in water rates as an instance of its sympathy, and expressed grave doubts as to the value of a commission, questioning very much the possibility of securing a suitable personnel. He concluded by expressing the highest confidence in the future of irrigation, and promised that a very careful investigation of the position would be made during the coming tour, with special reference to individual conditions.

DEPUTATION INTRODUCED.

Mr J. Horn, M.P., introduced the depu-

tation, the members of which, he said, represented over 300 irrigation settlers in Central Otago. He was sorry, indeed, io have to admit that practically all the land affected was within the boundaries of his electorate. Sixteen people would address the Ministers, but each would make his point as quickly as possible ■without wasting time. Referring to Mr Coates's knowledge of the situation, he Baid that nobody outside the engineers engaged on the work knew more about irrigation in Central Otago than he did. One of the chief difficulties confronting them was the fact that every scheme in the province was different from the next one. There had been a great deal of trouble this year consequent on a shortage of water and every scheme had been affected except those which had storage facilities such as the Manorburn Dam scheme. They were there that day to ask for a commission to report to Parliament, its investigations to consist of the minutest examination of the conditions obtaining in each settlement. The Government schemes were not alone in respect of the present trouble. Private ventures had suffered seriously, and he Understood that the case for these would also be stated by one or two speakers. PRESENTATION OF PETITION. Mr S. B. Macdonald (president of the Otago Expansion League) expressed the deputation’s appreciation of the eagerness of the Ministers to meet them. They had there representatives of every irrigation settlement in Central Otago except Galloway and Earnscleugh. Moreover, Were it not for the fact that Mr Coates purposed touring the districts the deputation would have numbered 300 instead of 50. He wished to stress the point that they were unanimous in considering irrigation a great boon to Central Otago. Its possibilities were limitless, and, given sympathetic administration and good management it would improve the country by 100 per cent. The crux of the position in their minds was unsympathetic administration, which had given rise to the petition which was now to be presented. It was signed by upwards of 90 per cent, of the holders of irrigable land of an area of 26,658 acres, which returned to the Government an • annual income of £20,000. Mr Macdonald said they wished it to be dearly understood that this was no political agitation, and it was because of this that they all agreed that, in presenting the petition to Mr Coates, it was in good hands, since there was no man in the Ministry who had a better grip of irrigation problems than he had. Mr Macdonald added that , in order to remove any possible suspicion of duplication or faking, the name of each signatory was accompanied by particulars as to his section number and the irrigable acreage in his holdin". He then read the petition, which stated: — ' ?° n ' ,^ inist g r of Public Works, Welhngton.-Vie the undersigned resn aents of Central Otago, being the owners of the parcels of land set opposite our respective names hereunder, do herebv respectfully request that a commission be set up by the Government to investigate and report on all matters pertaining to irrigation in Otago, or in altornative that the present Irrigation Advisory Board bo instructed to come to Central Otago and investigate and report upon the different irrigation schemes. There are many cases in which the settlers disagree with the policy of your department, and we fee) that if the whole matter could be investigated by an impartial tribunal that a policy could be decided upon which would be in tho best interests of all parties concerned. We trust that you will give this matter vour ©arnest and favourable consideration, and thank you in anticipation.” Having read the petition, Mr Macdonald was about to hand it on to the Prime Minister when he was checked by Mr Coates, who said he would first like to Know whether the settlers concerned had objections to a detailed investigation ©£ their private affairs and financial arrangements in respect to their sections. When it was stated that settlers were quite agreeable to such a course, Mr Coates said •• nad asked because be expected that he

would choose at random a dozen signatures, and examine the conditions- on the holdings they represented. Mr M‘Leod would also .probably deal with a dozen and Mr Williams would go through 12 more. Of course, the investigations would be made privately. They had to adopt such a method to ensure a reliable examination of the practical side of the position THE LONG BOW. Mr Macdonald : I do not think you will nieet any opposition there. "Wild rumours have been going about, and the settlers wanted something done. . .¥^^} ates: , Never mind the rumours. All the harm that can be done has been done already. Mr Macdonald: I do not think any harm has been done. Nothing but good can come out of this deputation. Mr Coates: Ihe long bow has been pretty well drawn. I do not say that you have done it, but you can take my word for it, this agitation has done very little to improve the position. Mr Macdonald: Well, a commission yvill decide that point, but will you accept this petition now? Mr Coates: I must. Having disposed of the petition, Mr Macdonald read a resolution passed -by the Cromwell Borough Council which expressed sympathy with the Ripponvale settiers and their plight in respect of water and suggested that the Government should take over the water rights there A FORCED AGREEMENT. The first speaker was Mr E. Kitto (Manuherikia), who said he had been in the district for 20 years, and considered himself capable of criticising the present administration. The agreement, he said, under which his district worked, was forced on the settlers at the point of the gun—if they did not l an< i wou! d be resumed by the Public Works Department, under the Public Works’ Act, and after being forced to S’gn the agreement they were not permitted to have a copy, although the settlers mu ed for one raore than once. lhe people who know Central Otago and who have lived in Central Otago/’ said Mr Kitto, “ are satisfied in themselves that irrigation will prove a boon not only to tho settlers but to the Government if the present difficulties are removed and a more sympathetic adminis tration is instituted. By unsympathetic ad ministration I mean that we settlers are treated like a lot of school children instead of customers of the Government When we require water, we have to practically beg the department to supply it and we have no guarantee that the water wid be supplied on the particular day we ask for it, and although we ask for a certain number of heads of water, on no occasion has that proper quantity been granted to us. This means that the water supplied is practically wasted through being entirely inadequate for our purposes. To show the unsympathetic attitude of the 1 üblio Works authorities in our district I would point out that one irrigator dur ing the break in the Manuherikia race recently, applied for extra water- it was granted to him—one head on "the payment and although it had been promised he only received the supply for one day He was surprised on the second day to «oe that the water was entirely cut off from his farm, and on inquiring the reason why, he was told that the orders were e race should be entirely cut off ” We farmers are not down-hearted," he continued, “we realise that your Government is doing its utmost to increase tho .productivity of this country, and in the irrigation project you have adopted a '™ cn , in the opinion of the settlers, under good administration, will return the Government £l9 for every £] spent. We want sympathetic administra tion, and an inquiry into past administra tion, which will be entirely free from departmental influence. The evidence which will be forthcoming will convince yon, sir, that an irrigation department in each’irrigation district is necessary.” “There have been failures in crops owing to no water,” concluded Mr Kitto. “ Why should not the Public Works Department write off its loss ns we have written off ours? In the opinion of the settlers the amount of water available has been over-estimated.” ROXBURGH COMPLAINTS. The grievances of farmers in the Roxburgh district were set out- by Mr J.

Richards (Roxburgh East), who said that at the outset he wanted to state that in his opinion the supply of watt? was inadequate for the nature of the land, which, being light, required really two heads per 100 acres. Moreover, this quantity could be granted, as water was often allowed to run to waste down the river. They considered that the water rate on that light land should be reduced to a maximum of 8s per acre, as it absorbed nearly five times the amount of moisture required by heavier lands, and needed at least five times the labour for its proper application. Then only half the stock could be carried when, compared with the heavier lands. A recent cause of complaint had been that a settler sold part of his holding when the water rate had reached the 8s mark, and the purchaser, with the consent of the department started at the minimum rate of Is, when his neighbours had to pay the increased rate, the Government thus loosing approximately £lOO a year tor the first two years. Owing to the water rate being the first charge upon the land the settlers must, in order to obtain the necessary finance for the proper working of their holdings, pay rates of interest equal to second and third mortgage conditions. It would be a boon if the Advances to Settlers’ Department could be utlised to provide the finance needed at reasonable rates and the burden of the farmers so i educed as to enable them to carry on and make such profitable use of their land and the Government’s water, that the volume of produce would be augmented to such an extent as to benefit the whole country.

SUPPLY OF WATER INADEQUATE

George also championed the cause of Roxburgh irrigators. It had come to this, that settlers could not get results tlom water alone, and had been compelled to top-dress also. Taking into account the cost of water and manures, the workIn g or. the land was not an economical proposition. They hoped that, by coming to him in the right spirit, they would be able to secure a reduction in the cost ot water and a more liberal supply for their particular class of land. Referring to the use of water for 24 hours of the day. he said that that would be all right if it were feasible, but farmers knew only too well that it was not possible to irrigate for more than 16 hours a day. Tor the other eight hours the water was simpiy running to waste. He thought that a common-sense way would be to charge for water only in daylight hours. Mr Coates: I do not wish to argue with vou, but water is very like electricity. You have only got a certain amount of both available for consumption. If you use power for 24 hours a dav it is a more payable proposition than for a shorter period, say, eight hours, because th° capital costs are the same for each, but the consumption for the longer period makes the burden lighter. Mi George: But surely you do not suggest that farmers should irrigate for 24 hours a day? That is what your argument boils down to.

Mr Coates: What I am trying to exP lal ° that “ ou the. use of water tor 24 hours you are getting the most eeonomiciil system. Also, please remember that the money sunk in these schemes has to be repaid. Mr George: We understand that quite well, and we do not wish the Government to do anything unreasonable. I am convinced that the departmental figures have been based on principle and not on practice. IDA VALLEY SCHEMES. There was no dearth of complaints and grievances among the Ida Valley representatives, who concentrated more on private and individual conditions than on the difficulties of the valley as a whole. Their personal problems, however, were considered to be characteristic of those confronting settlers generally. From the statements of Messrs Butcher, Noons, and Nicholson it would appear that the position is as follows:— The price charged for water, they said, was 15s per acre, and settlers were of the opinion that the rate was too high. They were quite willing to undertake the agreement to pay these prices, but experience had suggested to them that the rate was too high. They considered that they were entitled to receive the water in flushes over a period of 150 days, yet in seasons when they had been irrigating they had not been able to get flushes. They had never seen an engineer around the races to see to a proper supply, and some of the irrigators boxes were about a mile away from their land, so that they had to take their chances whether they got the quantity measured out or not. On their oi atry only flushing was satisfactory, as a small quantity of water would not travel to. irrigate an area. With a larger race this water could be supplied in flushes which appeared to be the only satisfactory way to deliver the water, and would give far greater results over more ground, lhey were of the opinion that 15s per acre, or £l5O per head, for water was an excessive charge. The No. 1 scheme provided for flushing, and the price w..s very satisfactory; but No. 2 scheme, being lower down, was getting the worse of the deal. If there was any water wanted they could put it on to No. 1 scheme, but it would not go to No. 2. Their methods of irrigation where they were getting water in flushes were very satisfactory, and there were no complaints for No. 1 scheme but in some cases there were no races leadinc into properties. The water just ran down lands or gullies or anywhere, and they had to take their chance that the water would run through. "aier No. 2 SCHEME. Mr Noone, speaking of No. 2 scheme said 15s per acre, or £l5O per head was’ excessive, and he was unable to pay this amount with any degree of profit. Also the flushing system which was carried out successfully in No. 1 scheme was a failure in No. 2 area. The races were not lartre enough, and when a dry spell came they were incapable of carrying enough water to enable flushing to be carried out successfully. Then, again, the water was not properly laid on to some sections, in some cases being measured through, a box half a mile from the ground where it was to be used. He wished to stress the urgency of a drainage scheme at Poolburn, where the creek was now flooding a considerable area of valuable land. A channel was required to take the surplus water away.

Mr Butcher mentioned another point arising from the insufficient carrying capacity of the races. Up to the end ot January they received only one-third ot their quota, and after that date the other two-thirds of that amount was available. Were these quantities reversed they would receive incomparably more benefit from the same amount of water received and paid for.

WASTE AND EXTRAVAGANCE. Mr A-. Kinney (Maunherekia) made a definite and lucid statement on the subject of waste and extravagance. He said no would bo' very sorry to see any setback . come to irrigation. However, the race intake was on, his land, and he had seen a good deal of the waste and extravagance that had been complained of. To his certain knowledge that race was gone over five times during its construction. It was first cut for about three miles through rock.. They then went back and extended the intakes about 25 or 30 chains further up the river, making a tunnel through a spur which brought the race to about 40ft above the original intake. They then dropped down to almost on the level of the river and took six inches out of the bottom and sides of the race through rock for about three miles. They then went back and concreted it for about three miles. It was then found that the race was leaking, the water was getting away between the concrete bottom and the concrete sides, due to the race not being kept clean and to the bad construction of the concrete. They then went along and put m a shoulder of the concrete. When they turned in the water, it would not hold, the water flowing over tho sides of the race. A layer of concrete about -18 in deep was put in and bolted down to the sides. They afterwards went along the bottom of the race and found that in some places the concrete was only jin thick instead of being 6:n. That meant a new bottom. There were two silting dams put in below the level of the river, and these were now covered up. When the water came out through the tunnel it was about 40ft above the original intake, but instead ot carrying it through there, they dropped it down to the old original race. A gang of men was employed for between two or year 3 P atc bing these old pipes, which were now almost useless. The water should come on on September 1, but it did not come on this year until sometime late in Nov-ember. The spring of the year was the time that the water is required. If it was not received then, the seed came dried up and perished. The breaks m the race were not an act of God, they were caused through the carelessness of fh® Public Works officials in overloading the race. In the first place, this race was constructed by what was now considered to be relief labour. They w-ere paid over £1 a day and also paid for travelling time. This vvas an aftermath of the war, incapacitated returned soldiers were employed, and _he considered that this labour was not 25 per cent efficient. They should not have to pay for the relief works. They should only be charged a small proportion of this cost. A SPECIFIC CASE. Mr N. Bruce, speaking about this scheme, said he could explain his troubles with a specific instance. On October 27,1927, there were four heads turned into tho head of the race (two miles long', but it was 10 days before one head was delivered on his property. This showed the character of the country they had to deal with. The Public Works Department then expected the farmer to irrigate 150 acres with one head of water. After this date, the water was turned off three times while the boxes were adjusted. Through bad management, the Government had lost two seasons’ water rates. He had spent £l4O on seed this season, and more than half of this would have to be replaced for want of water. Even if the Government supplied the water free for four years, he would not be repaid. FRUITLANDS’ PLIGHT.

Mr H. F. Tibbitts was the spokesman of the Fruitlands settlers. The picture he painted was a most depressing one. These settlers, he said, dependent upon apple were now, owing to their crops being wiped out year after year by frost, unfortunately forced to pull up their trees and go.in for dairying and sheep farming, for w-hich this class of country was eminently adapted. The loss had been a very severe one, and it would cost at least £5 per acre to convert the orchards into grazing land. Irrigation was a vital necessity. as the land would be useless for the new purposes without it. Most of the farmers had only small areas from which they must get everything possible, otherwise they could not carry on. We ask you respectfully, concluded Mr Tibbitts, to help us to carry on and make good by re-adjusting our water rates. We should be very grateful for any help in this direction, especially during the period we arc converting our land from orchards to dairy and sheep farms.

PRIVATE ENTERPRISE IN TROUBLE.

That irrigation difficulties and problems are not peculiar to Government schemes was indicated by the representations made by. the Ripponvale settlers, with Mr F. B. Phillips as mouthpiece. In opening his speech he said he wished to state first that Ripponvale was not in any way connected with the other irrigation districts. In fact, Ripponvale settlers looked with envy on those under tho Government irrigation races, and their aim and hope was that they might be given the opportunity of being supplied with water by the Public Works Department. Ripponvale was a settlement of some 450 acres, add at present 15 settlers were making their homes there and endeavouring to make their living on small areas of this land. It was at present supplied with irrigation water from mountain streams, and measure ments taken during the months of December, January, and February showed lhe water delivered to this area of land to be about one and a-half heads, and this quantity of water had to supply about 450 acres of land, besides domestic water for 15 families and their stock. Some years the Government granted to the Cromwell Development Company a special license and sole right to supply water to a large area of land in the Cromwell dis trict, including Ripponvale. The right. Io charge. 35s per acre for water was granted The company definitely stated that these charges were fixed by the Government, and the fact that these ■ water; charges had Government sanction considerably helped

the company. to sell their Ripponvale property. This special liccnso granted by the Government had since proved most disastrous for the settlers who took up land and also for the Cromwell district. The company agreed with the settlers, to supply irrigation water at the rate of onetwentieth part of a head per acre from their Kawarau works, and to deliver it through measuring boxes to each property sold. The water supply had been totally inadequate, and the Kawarau water was not supplied to the greater part of Ripponvale. No measuring boxes had been installed, and generally the water service and supply were so poor that settlers had had a great struggle to keep their farm# going. During the last two years nine settlers out of a total of 21 had walked off their farms, losing years of hard work and all their capital invested. The reasons for such a state of affairs were almost entirely due to the high water charges (35s per acre per year), inadequate supply of water, and the water service such that a settier had to spend the time needed to work his land in tramping up the water races and fighting with his neighbours for a little trickle of water. Ripponvale Settlement had the highest water charges, tho smallest allotment of water, and the poorest service of any in Central Otago, and if there were any body of settlers in Central Otago needing Government assistance and a better water supply, it was certainly the Ripponvale people. The Rinponvale settlers considered that the Government was largely to blame for their condition, as the Government made a mistake in granting this special license to a private company without proper safeguards and supervision, and that it was now the duty of the Government to step in and see that the wrong done vvas put right and settlers given a fair chance to keep their homes and make a living on the land. “ The Ripponvale settlers consider,” said Mr Phillips, “ there is an urgent need for the Government to appoint a special commission to inquire fully into irrigation matters with the object . of arranging that the settlers on irrigated lands in the Central, as far as is practical, should have a supply of water adequate for the best working of their properties, and that the charges be so fixed that the settlers are not unduly harassed in meeting their payments or in arranging for finance to work their farms. Finally, I would stress the urgency of the need for the Government to come to the assistance of the Ripponvale settlers so that they may be able to keep the homes and farms and make a living.” ANOTHER PRIVATE VENTURE-

Mr J. Hodson (Bannockburn) also told a story of the failure of a private scheme. With respect to the Bannockburn settlers, he said they could not manage their scheme without assistance. They had £l5O interest to maintain, and had to take care of 18 miles of water race. The race was in such a.. state now that it would not carry sufficient water. About five years ago they borrowed £7500, but this was not sufficient to complete the scheme, which brought in a certain amount of water, but not sufficient. Every year the race was carrying less water than the previous year, until this year ’ n wa r. Poetically carrying no water at all. lhey would require some assistance to make the scheme more efficient. If a portion of this £7500 were written off they could put the race in order and deliver the amount of water required. They wished the scheme to come under the Government and be put on a proper basis m common with the other irrigation schemes.

ARDGOUR GRIEVANCES. The main grievances of the Ardgour settlers, as set out by Mr W. D. Naylor, was that there was not sufficient water to irrigate, the land as it should be irrigated. This season ha_d been exceptionally dry, and there had not been enough 'rater to fill the race, but even at its best there was a shortage to the men on the lower end of the race. The race would carry four heads more from the intake to Mr Lethbridge’s place than it would lower down, and it was constricted below that point, and if the full quantity were available it would go a long way to satisfying the lower landholders. Ine price per acre was in his opinion too high, and some two years ago the settlers had petitioned through Mr Horn for a reduction, pointing out that the charge was too high and that sufficient time was not . allowed to put the land in order. During Mr Coates’s visit to the district last year he had promised redress, and they could gratefully say that several of his promises had been carried out. They felt, however, that some responsible officer of the department should visit the district to oversee matters and deal at first hand with minor matters which, if left unredressed, were apt to grow into bi* grievances. If this policy were carried grievances. It was their experience that with a good supply of water they . could make the valley into a series of smiling and productive farms and the homes of a happy and contented people.

THE PRIME MINISTER’S REPLY.

At this stage of the proceedings it became apparent that all who wished to speak could not be given the opportunity. Nevertheless, since several members of the deputation had written statements of their grievances, all more or less on the lines of those already delivered, some private and some general, it was decided that these should be.handed to the Prime Minister. This was done by Mr Macdonald, who stated that the remarks of the various speakers proved without doubt the absolute necessity for the setting up of a Royal Commission of Inquiry. Every aspect of the case had been placed before them, and it was clear that it was a question of national importance. He felt that nothing but good could result from the work of a commission, which alone would satisfy the settlers -and the Government. Irrigation was without doubt the finest thing that had ever come to Otago, and he felt sure it would in time more than repay the money expended upon it. Mr Coates: It is very hard to reconcile your two points of view. We have heard this morning all sorts of hopeless tales of the. settlers’ hardships, and novy you are saying that there is nothing bet* ter in Otago than irrigation. <“

Mr Macdonald: There is nothing hopeless about the position. What we are complaining of is unsympathetic administration. The settlers are all optimistic, but the administration by the departmental officers is causing a great deal of worry. They seldom go near the settlers to see if they can help, and what we want is a commission that will look into this and set matters right. You will then have no further trouble. Irrigation has certainly proved a boon to Central Otago, and there is no better proof of this than the figures prepared by Mr A QUESTION OF PAYING. The Prime Minister then rose to reply. As a preface to his remarks he put a very pointed question to the Fruitlands' representatives. “ Might I ask,” he said, “ what rates the two gentlemen from Fruitlands are paying? ” Mr Tibbitts: Seven shillings. Mr Coates: What will be your maximum charge? Mr Tibbitts: Up to Us. Mr Coates: Is that 7s what you are paying or what you are liable for ? A Voice: What we are paying. Mr Coates: I think you have been wrongly informed. While the charge was demanded it has never been paid. Mr Tibbitts: I understand that the Fruitlands Company paid the whole charge itself. I certainly had to pay my share. Mr Coates: Very well. I have inside information, though. I only mentioned the matter to illustrate one of my points. “ And now,” continued Mr Coates, “ let me ask _ you how many of. those present have paid up their water rates. We have heard a lot this morning about the lack of sympathy on the part of departmental officers, and of methods, which, when ,-fightly interpreted, are not unsympathetic. ■ Now. coma on 1 How many of you have been sued by the Government for arrears of water rates? ” Several voices proclaimed the fact that the settlers had no arrears now. Mr Coates: Oh! haven't you? I would not say anything further about that if I were you. I happen to know. There can be no complaint about lack of sympathy in that direction. Mr Macdonald: But we do not say that the Government has been unsympathetic. Mr Coates: The Government must accept responsibility for the policy of its officers. We cannot shelve the blame Mr Macdonald: Yes. You accept the responsibility, but we are not charging you. The Prime Minister went on to state that, no matter what excuses could be advanced, the Government must shoulder the responsibility and take to itself whatever charges were levelled at its officers. Mr Williams and he knew quite well who were in arrears, and, had they chosen to do so, they could have taken action long ago. Still, in spite of this, the settlers spoke glibly of unsympathetic administration. THE ROYAL COMMISSION. “ Now about this Royal Commission,” continued Mr Coates. “ Have you stopped to think what value you would get from it or what its personnel will be? Our experience of irrigation in New Zealand has proved conclusively that there can be no definite and hard and fast methods laid down for its -’ practice. We have been advised this morning by practical men of the different types of land requiring different treatment. Experience alone will show us what we should do. Of course it is possible to say that this should be done here and that that method should be adopted there, and so on, but it is only a visual calculation, not a practical one. The'human element and the class of land have both to be taken into consideration. We are now only going through the preliminary stages through which other countries have passed, and yet how much further on are they in respect of their difficulties?

The Prime Minister went on to say that he would like to know what class of commission they wanted. Who would they get to no on to it? Mr George: Those practical men who have made a success of irrigation farming. Mr Coates: I do not think the position calls for a commission. A DAMAGING AGITATION. Dealing with their present agitation, Mr Coates said he would like to point out that although they all spoke very hopefully they had done a lot to damage irrigation in the eyes of the rest of New Zealand by their exaggerated publicity—and he was convinced that it had been exaggerated, too. “ There has been a lot written about it, and I am going to speak to you now as I think you should be spoken to. Candidly. I think you have made a great mistake in the publicity your agitation has given to this question. Such tactics cannot fail to have a detrimental effect upon those who are endeavouring to make a success of irrigation There may be many cases of real hardship. I am sure there are. Still, I think you can rely upon Mr Williams. Mr M-'Leod and myself as formers ourselves, to have some idea of tUe difficulties and problems confronting producers. However, I think you could nave gone about the thing in some other way, without causing such a stir. I do not pretend to know all about irrigation—not by any means. And although I am reading and learning all tho time, it would be ridiculous for me to say that I know the amount of water required by various classes of land. Nevertheless, I can say with every confidence that irrigatibn in Central Otago has a wonderful future.— (Applause.) And I think that the country can have complete faith in its ultimate success. That is what I think, and all that has been said this morning cannot change my attitude, although many might consider the position hopeless. Voices; “Not at all.” and other expressions of dissent. Mr Coates went on to say that they had endured enough pin pricks to make them feel despondent over the matter, but for all that they did not feel like dropping it. That would never happen. His colleagues and himself were delighted to meet the deputation and to try to see what could be done.

ELOQUENT TESTIMONY. The speaker devoted some time to a bomparison of figures relating to goods and passenger traffic to-day and in 1919 on the Central Otago railway. ' He also drew some telling analogies concerning

live stock figures in Central Otago during the past few years. Sheep had largely replaced rabbits, and railway revenue and live stock wealth both showed marked increases, and indicated great development. This satisfactory state of affairs he attributed almost entirely to irrigation. COMPLAINTS OF SETTLERS. In respect of the complaints and grievances aired that morning, Mr Coates said he did not consider any of them very serious. No doubt they would all call for a great deal of careful investigation, but he thought it would be found that they were all capable of readjustment. The solution of the whole problem depended upon an investigation of as many individual cases as possible. Still, he must remind them that they could never lose sight of the question of capital cost. This had always to be considered, and in this connection it had to be admitted that some of the schemes were undertaken at peak periods when construction costs were at their highest. It was the duty of the Government to see that the user paid for capital expenditure. At this stage Mr MacDonald said they had nothing but thanks to offer Mr Coates for his work in Central Otago. Mr Coates: It seems to be now that we have come to such a pass that everyone is dissatisfied with the whole thing. Voices from all parts of the room disagreed with this statement. Mr Coates: That is fine! GOVERNMENT STILL HOPEFUL.

In conclusion, the Prime Minister said that there were still many avenues for development in irrigation and land settlement. Still, the Government could not ask settlers to pay more than they could afford, and, in deciding the legitimate charge the Government would have to take into consideration the personal equation and the type of land. He sincerely hoped that next week he would meet as many settlers as possible on their own ground. Later on the Government would decide what should be done. They would see as they went along whether their idea of meeting the situation would be a reasonable one. — (Applause.) Before he sat down the Prime Minister asked the Minister of Lands to address the meeting. MINISTER OF LANDS. Mr M‘Leod said he was keenly interested in this question from the point of view of land development. In the North Island a great deal of land had been reclaimed by means of swamp drainage, and he was particularly struck by the fact that many of the problems he had to combat there were to be found here in Central Otago. He had noted on more than one occasion these big agitations being started in development schemes, and he knew who paid for them —the taxpayer of New Zealand. The only way to get to the bottom of these troubles was to deal with them from the standpoint of actual personal contact. That was what was going to solve this difficulty. It was a strange thing, however, that a great many settlers, as soon as they found that they could not pay their charges, refused to pay anything at all. This was not right. Land must be able to pay something. Where would they get if everyone decided to pay as little as he could? Nowhere! And yet it was true that some men were told they were scabbing because they were making a genuine effort to pay their interest, drainage, water rates, or whatever it might be. They would find cases of that in every scheme. MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS. Mr Williams spoke very briefly. He said a good deal had been said about unsympathetic administration in the Public Works Department. No doubt that unfortunate state of affairs had been remarked since Mr Coates vacated the office. If such a thing really existed he was prepared to take the blame. He knew nothing about irrigation as far as the use of water was concerned, but he was keenly interested in the question. Before assuming the portfolio of Public Works he had visited Central Otago and also since, and he felt confident that irrigation would prove an unqualified success. Of course, land differed in quality and in the ability to respond to water and fertilisers, and the human element was another great factor. Those were the things which they had to investigate, and although he was not very familiar with irrigation practice he could tell whether a man was making good use of his land or not. He promised to give all these questions every consideration during his tour next week. VOTE OF THANKS. Mr Horn, in returning thanks to the Ministers for the patient hearing they had given the deputation, expressed pleasure at the attitude of the Ministers in so whole-heartedly supporting irrigation. He did not know much about the figures quoted in respect of increased live stock and railway revenue, but he knew that Central Otago was now making £170,000 a year more than before irrigation. He felt sure that it was going to prove an immense thing for Otago and a great boon to the Dominion.