TUESDAY, AUGUST 29.

Otago Witness, Issue 2686, 6 September 1905, Page 15

TUESDAY, AUGUST 29.

In the Legislative Council on Tuesday the Public Works Act Amendment Bill was recommitted, and a new claxise added deal-, ing with the formation of a road by a local body on -the petition of a majority of those holding frontages to the road. A number of local bills were passed. SUBDIVISION OF LAND. The Public Works Act Amendment Bill (Hon. Mr Feldwick) waa recommitted, and the following new clause inserted on the voices: —" On^ the petition of a majority of the owners owning not less than twothirds, of the frontage on any unformed road of not less than "66ft in width, which had for five year 3or upwards prior to the year 1900 been used as a public road, the local' authority may form the same, and apportion the cost thereof amongst the whole of the owners in proportion to the frontage held by them respectively, and may recover the amount so apportioned as if the same were a rate."—The bill was reported as amended. In the House of Representatives on Tuesday the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Acts Compilation Bill was read a first time. After some discussion as to the order of business, the motion to go into committee on the Imprest Supply Bill was intercepted by Mr Herdman moving an amendment declaring that in the opinion of the House the public service should be managed and controlled by a Public Service Board. After a debate, which extended well into the evening sitting, the amendment was defeated by 43 to 23. Various other alleged grievances were under discussion when the telegraph office closed at 2 a.m. *„. NEW BILLS. The Hon. J. M'GOWAN gave notice to introduce the Mining Acts Compilation Bill and Coal Mines Acts Amendment Bill. ! LEAVE. | One week's leave of abseaoe was granted to Mr M'Nab.

PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT.

The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON announced to the House that the Public Works Statement'was in its final stages of preparation, and he oould have kept his promise made some time ago to bring it down that day, but he thought it advisable to first dispose of the question whether the House should resolve itself into committee of the whoTe to consider she land proposals, of which he had given notice. When his motion to go into committee was decided he would 1 bringdown the Public Works Statement. He proposed to make his motion the first order of the day for Thursday. Mr MASSEY said he could not understand why the Public Works Statement was to be delayed, unless it was because the Premier 1 intended to take one of the amendments given notioe of on the land question as a want-of-confidence motion. If he had made up his to take that course, why did he not say so. In the course of further discussion, Mr SEDDON. referring to the Imprest Supply' Bill, which was to be brought down that afternoon, said the bickering, baiting of Ministers and wilful waste of time Hr.-A had accompanied .Supply Bills this session were driving <he Government to consider the advisability of obtaining power to make an Imprest Supply Bill cover three months .instead of one month. Mr Seddon went ou to say that the term of the whole of the Maori Land Councils of the colony would expire to-morrow, and he had set aside to-morrow for the passing of a Continuance Act. THE CIVIL SERVICE. On the motion to go into Committee of Supply to consider an Lirprest Supply Bill, Mr HERDMAN moved as an amendment—"Thai, with a view to securing- Lo the colony efficiency and security in th? administration of the various State departments, this House is of opinion that the publio service of the colony should bo managed and controlled by a Public Service Board." Speaking to the amendment, Mr Herdman declared that the present system of patronage in the public service was inherently vicious, and he pointed to the Police, State Coal Mines, and Lands Departments, each of which had formt-d the subject of investigation by a Royal Commission, as showing- that there wa= something radioally -wrong in the public service. There Was a feeling growing up in the mino's of the people that they could not trust the Government to administer the various departments of State, and if it could be rroyoij that anpoii.&iente were

made for political reasons it would be e'ea. that the whole system was wrong. Air Herdmau v.cnt on to refer to the goo-.i work dono by the Public Service Board oi New South YVale*. which had effected largn savings in lanous direction's in the c;v 1 S3rvic_\ had acted as advisers to tin Government as ta the way in which tha various departments should be controilo<>. and had genorallv raised the tone of (U publio service in that Stato. If a similar system of control prevailed in New Zealand he wrs satisf.ee! it would be infinitely better for the service and for the people. Sir J. G. WARD said Mr Herdman had evidently endeavoured to convey to the country an impression that Ministers had been doing improper things in connection with appointments to the civil service, bnt he ventured tc say that no old member of Parliament wouid say that any good hao

• ~ '. . ] ever been done by indulging in such philippics against Ministers. - __— — - ' Sir J. G. WARD, continuing' his speech, ea-id the proposal that* members of Parliament should have free access to the documents of the various publio departments was an impossible one. How could that privilege bs " allowed in departments like che -Public Trust Office -"and Government -Life Insurance, which handled the private •business pf large, numbers of people in the ' colony. At present members of Parliament f ihad every facility given them to obtain information from the public depart- ; 'ments. He ridiculed the. -suggestion that the .prssent .state of affairs in' connection with ths civil service had filled the public , with a sense of insecurity. The aJI-round J -prosperity of + ne colony and- the confidence shown by the people in their support of the various Government departments was a - complete answer to that charge. Mr Herd- j maa had referred to certain Royal Com- \ lnUsions, but Sir Joseph pointed out that ( the Land Commission was in no way con- j ncr-ted • with the public service, and the Poiic-3 Commission had been set up by the | Government of its own accord in conse- ' quence of/ certain fevelations^ at Duaedin. i "What -was wanted "was- claslificatlon and . superannuation of the civil service, EJid ( the Government '."would give the House an j opooitunity of going on with that scheme thus session. In that scheme they would ; . have something practical. I Mr MASSEY said if the Opposition got into power one of its first enactments would j , to to establish a Civil Service Board, i , Despite what- Sir J. G; 'Waid had saia, he J urged it could not be denied that a I ing of -insecurity was abroad in the co\ny. j People .with capital" hesitated before lmest- ■ ing' it in ,tho colony, and he would te able ] ■to' prove on another occasion that good ( sstfclers -were leaving New Zealand becuu&a of feeling of insecurity. Public Servica • Boards were in operation in Britain, Canada,' India, and other parts of the British Empire, and he hope-i the time was not far distant when a board would be j firmly established in this colony which j ■v/ouki have control not only of appcint- j *nents to the service, but' of m-oznoiions • in the service. At present thero were k>o j jnany "reigning family" appointm°nis t altogether, and he wanted to see everyone i •have an equal opportunity of securing sei- j vice with the State. The Hon. J. M'GOWAN argued that if a board were appointed it would be responsible to nobody. Everybody at jprwent; (had an equal opportunity of appointment , in the civil service, and he knew this of J , his own Icnowledge. He said that the .Leader. of the Opposition should substanti- ' ate by. tangible proof his contention that iarge sums of money had left the colony -•owing to the public sense of insecurity. •Why, he asked, should not a Minister have relatives 7 in the public service? Should lie , be punished by an enactment that his soms and ' idaughters, even if they had passed f-he | examinations, should not- be employed in ( ihe civil service? The various positions in Jfcbe civil service were open to all, irrespective of the family to which they belonged, j Mr LAURENSON bore testimony to the fact that the present Minister of Justice • bad not been influenced by poi'tical ■<taotive3 in making appointments to the Police Force. v He urged that members of ihe House should have free access to all

documents upon which public money was j paid, but there was no suggestion that the privilege should cover investigations of the private business people might transact with the various State departments. At present members of Parliament, as auditors for vhe public, were not allowed' to see the public accounts, and he was not going to cease agitating until every detail of the publio •accounts was laid open to members. 'Mr JAMES ALLEN held that the law that said the only means of appointment to the 'civil -service should be -by -examination was more honoured in the breach than the observance. There were, more irregular appointments than the public dreamed of, and these appointments blocked the road to people who had a perfect right to enter by ; examination. There wa§ a sense of public | insecurity, as had been alleged, and he asked the Premier and the Minister of Railways if they did not feel any insecurity about the railways superannuation scheme. Was it sound or not? Sir J. G. WARD: Sound. I'll undertake to prove that it is. Mr WILFORD objected to any member easting the breath of suspicion on the railways superannuation scheme without giving definite reasons. He would vote against Mr Herdman's amendment, as ho did not believe a Civil Service Board would cure the ills complained of in connection with fhe present system. There would always be 23ersonal influence while human nature was human nature. ; Mr BEDFORD considered that all \ vacancies in the civil service should be advertised in the Gazette. All applicants j of equal qualification should be submitted [ to ballot, and the one whose name was j drawn should receive the appointment. j That plan would do away with political i influence. He supported Mr Herman's amendment because he thought a Civil Service Board would undoubtedly be a check on the patronage of the Government. •He was strongly in favour of the suggestion that members of the House should i have free access, under proper supervision, ! to the public accounts. j Mr MILLAR questioned whether any , Civil Service Board in any part of £h« i world had been a success, and asserted t*nat j the board in New South Wales had been set up wholly and solely for the purpose of reducing wages. Mr MASSEY: They reduced expenditure, not wages. Mr MILLAR went on to say that deliberate favouritism had been shown by the Kailj way Commissioners in making appoint- ' ments, and the same state of things would ] prevail under a Civil Service Board, which would probably arrange its promotions at the Wellington Club. j The Hon. W. HALL-JONES agreed tha-s the setting up of the New South Wales , Board had reduced the State's wages bill. ' Messrs MOSS and ELL also spoke. , Mr SEDDON charged the Opposition with obstructing business, and went on to ' say that the appointment of a Public Ser- | vice Boa.rd would take off the shoulders of j the Government the responsibility of carrying on the civil service. The Public • Service Board of Australia was unpopular, and deservedly so, and the New Zealand service was much superior to that of Australia. Ministers must bb responsible for appointments and for the business of the

country, and if they did not do that their sins would find them out. Pie contended that appointments were made on competitive examinations, and he challenged the Opposition to prove that he had deviated from the law. As to members getting information, he said it was the duty of the Government to give members as full information as possible', but the regulation forbidding officers of the civil service to give information had been in operation since 1873. He contended that no information was refused which was of interest to the districts represented by members, and he declared that the Opposition had not gained half a dozen votes through its action in regard to the civil service that day. Mr DUTHIE pointed out that the debate had been going on since 4 p.m., and only three members of the Opposition had taken part in it. In the face of this he could not understand how the Premier^ had the audacity to sa,y that the Opposition had been obstructing the business of the House.

Mr MANDER having spoken, Mr Herdman's amendment was lost by 43 votes to 23. The following is the division list : — For the Amendment. — Messrs Aitken, Alison, J. Allen, Bedford, Bollard, Buchanan, Duthie, Ell, Fisher, W. Fraser, Harding, Herdman, Herries, Kirkbride, Lang, Lethbridge, Lewis, Mancler, Massey, Moss, Khodes, Vile.

Against the Amendment.— Messrs E. G. Allen, Arnold, Barber, Baume, Bennet, Buddo, Carroll, Colvin, Davey, Duncan, Field, ■Platman, Powlds, A. L. D. Fraser, Graham, Hall, Hall-Jones, Keke, Hogg, Houston, Jennings, Kaihau, Eidd, Major, M'Gowan, R. M'Kenzie, Millar, Mills, Parata, Pere, Remington, Rutherford, Seddon, Sidey, Smith, Steward, Symes, Tanner, Ward, Wilford, Willis, Witty. Wood. Pairs. — For the Amendment: Sir W. R. Russell Messrs J. C. Thomson, Reid, and Taylor. Against the Amendment: Messrs M'Nab, M'lmchlan, Lawry, Hanan.

IMPREST SUPPLY.

In reply to Mr Massey, Mr SEDDON said the State coal mines balance sheet was not laid on the table owing to a block in the Government Printing Office. Mr DUTHIE asked when the Shops and Offices Bill would be proceeded with. Mr SEDDON said he had done his best to get the bill through. He had brought it down early in the session, but owing to the great diversity of opinion that existed very little progress had been made with the measure. As soon as the shopkeepers and members of the House had come to an agreement on the points in dispute he would proceed with the bill, but until an arrangement was arrived at it was useless to attempt to go on with the bill. The House should have agreed to the bill as ho had brought it in this session, but he had been foi'ced to send it to the Labour Bills Committee, which had materially altered it. All that was needed was tho repeal of olause 3 and an effective amendment in clause 21. However, he was quite prepared to give the House another opportunity to discuss the bill, and if -members were "reasonable they would get it through. He offered tp take the bill to-morrow afternoon and' give another afternoon for discussing replies to questions. Mr MASSEY thought there w;quld b$

very little objection to that course. There was not the slightest intention to block the bill, and so far its passage had been characterised by fair discussion and nothing more.

Some discussion took place regarding Government advertising, and complaint was made that certain Government papers were favoured as against other papers not supporting the Government. Sir J. G. WARD defended the expenditure made by the Government, and stated that no newspaper was put on the list of newspapers ko receive Government advertisements without being submitted to Parliament.

Mr BTJDDO quoted figures to show that Opposition newspapers had done better In retard to Government advertisements than newspapers which support the Government. Mr SEDDON also quoted several cases m which papers opposed to the Government had received more for advertising than papers supporting the Government. The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON, referring to the railways superannuation scheme, said the scheme had only been in operation since 1903, and it would not be fair to the fund or to the- Minister of Railways to actuarially investigate the fund at the present time.

Aftor further discussion tho bill -passed its final stages on the voices.

UNRELIABLE ORDER PAPERS.

A considerable time was taken xip this afternoon in the House in respect to th.i "chopping and changing" tactics of the Premier in respect to the order of business. It was generally understood that the. Imprest Supply Bill was to bo brought down, but the Order Paper showed four j items ahead of supply The Premier moved | that the orders of the day bo suspended ;n; n I order to allow him to bring down supply. Mr Massey strongly protested against this changing of tho order of business, ami asked what the object could be. '"To deceive members," was the quick retort of an hop. member. Mr Massey said that when it was intended to bring down supply it should be placed at the top of tho Onior Paper, and he said he would call for a division on the Premier's motion. Mr Herrios said that "supply" had appeared on the top of the proof Order Paper, and ho wished to know what the objoctrof tho alteration on the corrected Order Paper could bo if it was not to deceive bh© Houso. Mr Massoy'3 protest was upheld by severa.l other speakers. Mr Seddon's reply was tlwifc evon if " supply" had been at tho hoad of tho Order Paper it would have been necessary to move hie motion, as in such a coso the House, without a suspending resolution, would have gone into supply on tho Estimates. Mr Massey said that tho Premier was well aware that l>o could havo arranged tho Order Paper as ho (Mr Massey) suggested. In fact, the Premier had on move than one occasion taken tho right course, as suggested. "It must havo boon by accident, then," was tho facetious supfffestioh of an unkind mombor. The Premier bnvliod his motion by 40 to 25, and tho Hou&o plunged into tho depths of the long discussion with which " imprest" is nowadays inseparably associated.

IMPREST SUPPLY.

M_r Seddon i§ evidently feeling somewhat reatjyg under fol_&clve'r&§ oriticjysin. of hja

administration that takes place during the debates that arise on the ~ Imprest Supply - Bills at the, end of each month, and to-day he threatened in future to bring in one Imprest Supply Bill for three months' supplies at the beginning of the session Ifc would, he said, be better to have a three days debate on a three months' bill than, to hare all the debate and wilful waste of time that they now. Mr . Massey interjected thar f Mr Seddon would have some difficulty iftj getting such a bill through, and no doubt he would, for imprest is justly, regard-ed as one of the sacredprivileges .of the private member in mostcountries where there is not an absolute autocracy. "LET THEM GO." Referring to-day to the order of business for the week, Mr Seddon in a mysterious manner referred to an act of Parliament tftat expired to-morrow or next day " Unless, he said, they renewed that act or contimxed it there would be very serious difficulties in this colony. Members almost held their breath at this portentious statement. .No doubt they had visions of the colony on the- verge of financial ruin, 'but when Mr Seddon pressed to explain, said he referred to the Maori Councils there wa* a burst of laughter, in whioh mingled cries too!" S ° r and " A scod th ' m * THE COLONIAL BANK. Air Herdman has given notice to ask fact that the A. to L. Petitions Committeerecommended that the petition of MeS Barren, Burnett, and Colin Allen beT erred to Mmistor* for favourable S.nsfd«l*ill not take steps to give full effect to the and <W t J ° l0?S ° f , £555 ' 000 w^ mad-, and (b) the amount of tJio loss for which, each separate account is responsible %

TROUBLES OF MINISTERS ON SE\ AND ON LAND.

Ihe ship of State." snid Mr Taylor t'lia afternoon, «• l 8 so smothered with lLrn\c<es i»t»I»«tt«.l description b.0,,,-1,? X Mi. £ every respect "-(Cri w of "Oh oh * V'The sen a calm and tho .sky Js brSht" The Minister at th« point aeemed in imminent danger ot breaking into poeti^ SI was happily averted by the loud X ironical laughter whicl/Joeted L defence of. the storm-tossed barque Having ?r§ (t'iVrn'^ h6 w« ™<o say* that ho.only tmublo ,n connection with the ship\VftS tho pivaenoo on board of a few "scallyjH*ga. 'In a fo ff w,«H" ho continued, #H SWUJ Hfi u\to harbour, aud then w«

shall be- able to -get rid of these scallywags.' " v "-Stowaways, suggested a member. "No, not stowaways," was the Ministerial f "they are .sometimes useful'men. 1 " In' the place of these "restless, worrying,* helpless, useless individuals,' "he e'aid, they w,ould,ship " a good -hard working crew." " Who ' will do as ' they are told, •remarked Mr Lauxenson, trotting -in an effective oar. deeming • this retort unanswerable, the nautical -Minister, ' who wa3, too inuef '"at sea" to be comfortable, incontinently > threw overboard the' remainder "of his "store of metaphors,' and headed for shallower and- safer waters. "''

The Premier "on land" seemed, just as 'tincomfortable as-, his .pojleague-^did "at sea," and his weak-Knee^l attitude "on tba larid question .was th© subject of" some pretty sharp thrusts --during the discussion regarding „the ;v;! ordejr_of .business.'. . ■Jjaving.rretefred-'Ho, Ms^ "'series "of rosolu- / irons" was promptly ' assayed by ' cries of "Didv-you...sa.y- serious resolutions'?" Tha parried this, by 'murmuring' some.thing,.to the effect that " it'^ould, be very • serious; for somebody:" : Tiers' were, hesaid,, two amendments. "Wiiiohis the noconfidenco' motion?" liske'd the Leader of j the Opposition. The Premier, however, did | not satisfy the thirst for information on j this point, but hurried into a voluble speech on less subjects. Later on. Mr Massey askgd the' Premier .^whether lie was going to accept hia challenge of a want" of confidence « ' Ai?e' "you' going to move it?*' asked the Premier. " I. would j move it now if I had the chance," was tlie ready retort of Mr Massey. " Oh, you want to get ahead of. Mr Taylor's amendment," rejoined the Premier. „ -'"Mine," pointed out Mr Massey, " is a want of confidence motion ; the other is not." The Premier, astonished -members by saying that hi 3 -proposals and, MriMassey's 'amendment were practically the same. Mr Massey said be must -give this statement a contradiction. Mr Seddon:_ "I gav6' ; rhotice of certain. /resolutions, and .the' Leader of the Opposition says ditto." "Will you vote for the amendment? 7 ' was the unanswered question of, Mr James Allen. The only definite information which the Premier would impart was that' he would, ask , the -House to make the land ' question the first order of the day on Thursday, and with that inquisitive members, "had ' io rest . .content.' One thing evident, was/ Chat Mr Seddotf did ''not want the land, businfes^on to-morrow. Someone was uncharitableS enough' to suggest that a fancy dress • ball in. aid of the Veterans' Home, in which- the* Premier and other prominent members of Parliament are to play a oonspieuous~ ;r part to-morrow night, had something to do with the :matter. No doubt ifrhas. •' ,j f » OUR ".REIGNING FAMILIES." In speaking -on : the question of a "Civil Servio* 'Board to-niglit'Ttfr Massey said that the. Premier; when- sneaking in the Franklin district some time ago; "said he thanked tibe CreatoT"th.at'thfere "were no -reigning families in this' : country. He' (Mr Massey)! would like to ' know, 'however^ how many of fee relatives and cb'nnectioris of Ministers were in the 'civil" service. There was, he said, too much "regning "family" in this country. He wished' 'to see a system' brought into operation under which the son or daughter of a, wharf labourer -would, all other things being equally' hay& the same opportunity of appointment tp, the public service as the son 'or daughtar. of .a Minister of the Grown. This, however, . h-9 said, was a long way T from being, the case at the present time. a .'fobho service board.* 4*4 * _ r Herdman- is sticking tenaciously to his idea of- a > -public service board, and there isj it is evident, a growing feeling that the time is ripe for the establishment of such a board in New Zealand. Mr Herdman's amendment 'to this "effect on the Imprest Supply 'Bill' 'this evening led to a ■ long and interesting discussion. In a temperate But critical speech, -the member for Mount Ida' urged the necessity for such a board. He pointed to the ill-managed Police, . Lands, and $tate Coal Mine Departments in support of his contentions. He also referred to the well-known fact that the Public Works Department has to a great^ extent been turned into a political machine. ""Mr Herdman deplored the prevailing nepotism "and the consequent appointment of. incompetents and undesirables to the civil "You cannot put . your finger on a single , case ; you're only making general statements," interjected Mr M'Gowan, Minister for Justice. " Can't I? What about that policeman down in Dunedin? ' was, Mr Herdman's prompt retort. "He was convicted twice for theft. and then he was appointed to the Police Force. Does .that reflect credit on the Minister's Departmetit?" quietly asked the member for" Mount Ida, as he drove home Jiis argument. Mr Herdman's proposal was negatived, as a matter of course, but the debate furnished many excellent arguments in favour of a change from the existing system of making ' public appointments.

THE VOUCHER INCIDENT.

It is not yet definitely known when the Auditor-general's report on the voucher case will be presented. It is expected, however, cither to-morrow or on Thursday. JOTTINGS. Mr Bedford spoke to-night of ' the cowardice displayed by the Government in regard to the land policy. " Well, shillyshallyingy' was the term he substituted on being called upon to withdraw the ward cowardice. •" "You are only quibbling," said Mr Massey to-day to the Premier, when the later was explaining why he had arranged the order paper in such a way as to require a motion for its suspension. Mr Seddon asked that the" term be withdrawn, and the Speaker said it must be withdrawn. Mr Massey :_ " Certainly, sir, if you hold "that it is unparliamentary I will withdraw it." The> Speaker said he was "bound by the rulings of the House of Commons, but if he had to rule on the matter himself he .would not take the same view. —(Laughter.)

The Education Committee reports to-day on the petition of Mr Daniel Brent, who asks that vaiious sums" deducted from his salary when mathematical master at the Dunedin High School should be paid to him. The committee recommend* that such addition be made to the amount (if any) given to petitioner when he left the service as will make the whole amount equal to a retiring allowance of one year's salary, and that with a view; to such action being taken the petition be' referred to the Government for favourable consideration.