PRIVATE BENEFIT SOCIETIES.

Otago Witness, Issue 2258, 10 June 1897, Page 11

PRIVATE BENEFIT SOCIETIES.

SITTING OF THE ROYAL COMMISSION. The commissioners appointed to inquire into the working of private benefit societies resumed business on the Ist inst., when there were present— Mr E. Tregear (chairman), the Hon. W. J. Steward, M.H.R., and Mr G. Fisher, M.H.R. THE ROSLYN WOOLLEN MILLS. James Swanerton, carter, said he wished to •' make a correction in the evidence that had been given on the previous day by a witness in the employ of Ross and Glendining. He was the boy referred to as being injured iv the mills. It was ! stated that Mr Glendining offered to send him to I school, and that he would not 'go. That was not true. Mr Glendining did not offer to send, him to school, but lie said if witness went to school he would give him employment or find him something to do. Whenever witness went to him, however, he always said there was nothing doing. Witness produced the following letter written to his father : — "Dunedin, 27th October, ISS7.— Mr T. Swanerton, MorniDgton. — Dear Sir, — We desire to ex- [ press our deep regret for the injury your son has j sustained by the recent accident, and our symi pathy with you and your family in the zad loss that has resulted. We trust he will soon be restored to health, and that, though unable to continue the same kind of work, he will yet be fit soon for some other suitable employment. He will be more likely to set this if he has a good education, and we think the best thing he can do now is to go back to school and work diligently at his lessons for a time. We will be glad to assist him by payiog 5s per week for 12 months from this datr. We hope he will make a brave start again, and if he perseveres there is no fear of I his being able soon to push his way and earn a, | livelihood. Sympathising with you in this great j misfortune, — We are, dear sir, yours faithfully, Ross and Glendining." Witness stated further that he went back to school for two years after being injured in the mills. Another lad named Mahone had been hurt there. His hand was taken off in a machine. j THE DAILY TIMES MUTUAL PROVIDENT SOCIETY. j The commissioners then proceeded to take evi1 dence with regard to the above society. I James Souness, compositor in the employ of the Otago Daily Times and Witness Company, produced the by-laws of the society. They provided : " That the committee shall have power to decide upon the investment of the funds of the society, and may incur such expenditure of an incidental character as may, in their opinion, be necessary to the proper working of the society, i The members may deal with the disposal of the society's funds at a general meeting, or at a meeting called for the purpose. " Should any officer be discovered in fraud or embezzlement, or any member in wilful imposition on the funds of toe society, he ahall be expelled from membership of the society and reported to the managing director. " Any member leaving or being discharged from his employment shall cea<e to have any claim whatsoever upon the funds of the society. "Every adult member shall pay t>d for every week of membership, apprentices and boys 3d per week, but for the first three months of membership double the above rates shall be paid. " Sick members shall be entitled to receive 25s per week for the firat 12 weeks, and 20s per week for the next eight weeks." Witness said the rules of the society produced were correct up to date with the exception of one or two minuted alterations. He produced the following printed amendments in the rules :— " That all employees who are not members of some recognised benefit society must become members of this society, subject to the approval of the committee. "Any employee wishing to be exempted from membership of this society must give notice in writing to the secretary, who shall call a meeting of committee within 10 days of receipt of such notice to consider the case. No one shall be considered exempt until he has received notice from the secretary that -his application has been granted. " Non-members ahall, on being requested by the committee to do so, at any time furnish proof I that they are still members of some recognised | benefit society. - j "That all industrial societies that provide doctor and medicine be looked upon by the | committee as equivalent to the O.D.T.M.P. Society." Witness had been in the service of the company for 11 years. There had been little or no grambling about membership to the society being compulsory. One or two who needed help most had, however, grumbled. There were about 20 members of the society who also belonged to friendly societies. They made no objection to belonging to the society connected with the Time 3in addition to being members of other societies. The company paid no subsidy to the society and took no part in its management. From 1879 to 1883 membership was purely optional. In 18S3, however, a meeting of the members was held and it was decided to make the membership compulsory, subject to the approval of the management. The management did approve, and so membership was made ponapulsory. The Chairman : What does compulsory mean ? Witness replied that so far as he knew the matter was never contested, but it was generally

understood that if a. man did not join he left the office. In reply to further questions witness stated that the disposal of the funds of the society was purely in the hands of the committee. The sura of £50 remained on fixed deposit with the company, the rest of the funds being left as a floating deposit. To Mr Fisher : There was a strike in the Daily Times Office about 11 years ago. Witness did not know what funds were in hand at that date. Mr Fisher: Was there a case in the It.M. Court in Dunedin— a case in which there was some gambling — and some of the Daily Times compositors were present and were examined as witnesses ? Witness : Yes. What happened to them in the Daily Times Oflice? Were they fined for giving their evidence I—No1 — No ; not for giving their evidence. Were they fined then?— Yes. I How much?— £s How many ? — I do not know. Would you not have thought that an arbitrary a interference with the outside lives of the men ?—? — 5 No ; I would not. Mr Steward : That does not bear upon the society. It is a matter of the management of the Daily Times. We have nothing to do with that. The Chairman said that was so. Mr Fisher had better not go into that. In reply to further questions by Mr Fisher, Witness said the funds of the society were banked in the name of the president and treasurer. Robert Ferguson' was president and S. Ballantyne treasurer. To Mr Steward : The £50 was deposited with the company, who gave 6 per cent, interest on the money. The company simply took the money to oblige the society, and it could be obtained by the society at any time. To the Chairman : If a member of the society i was sick he got 25s a week, but no doctor and no medicine It was purely a monetaty matter, but a funeral grant of £10 was given to a deceased member's wife or representative. The subscriptions were collected by the secretary once a fortnight. But when the funds in hand reached a certain limit the subscriptions ceased. At the present time no subscriptions were collected. In no case was the subscription to the society deducted from the wnges. To Mr Fisher : Witness did not know what the effect would be of an employee refusing to belong to the society. The committee would simply report the matter to the management. The Chairman : What do you think would happen if a man got in arrears with his money ? Witness : I don't know. We would report him to the manager. Further questioned, witness said the society had always been able to pay its way so far as he could remember. He had known the company to pay a man his wages when he had been getting sick- pay from the society, but he did not know that they made a practice of doing that. Joseph Ab>srnethy, compositor, who had been in the employ of tho Daily Times Company for 17 yeard, said he thought the society had been a decided benefit to the men. There were a few who grumbled at the existence of the society occasionally, but very few. These supposed that they were compelled to join by the management, but that was a misunderstanding. What compulsion did exist was brought about by a, very large majority— in fact, almost a unanimous — vote of the members themselves, and at their request the management made the membership compulsory for the benefit of the whole. If, , however, an employee was a member of a friendly ' society he did not require to belong to the benefit society. One of the advantages of ths society was that those, who could not be members of a ; friendly society on account of their physical disability could join the benefit society. ; Mr Fisher : Is this the case : That this society gauges all the men by the gauge of the unthrifty and degraded ? Witness : No ; certainly not. Is this the case then : If I, not being unthrifty and not being degraded, and I refuse to join this i society I cannot get employment there ?— No ; I that i1)i 1 ) not so now. Some few months ago a meet- | ing was held at the request of some membeiv, and | more particularly of one member, who felt that he ■ was beiDg imposed upon ; or, rather, placed in a , false position, owing to the somewhat autocratic \ attitude of the managemeut in compelling him to ■ become a member when he did not wißh to do so. He was shown that, whatever of compulsion there was, was distinctly at the instigation of members themselves, and not coming from tho manage* ruent. The Chairman: It was a democratic iuslitu-', tion ? • Witness : Yes ; by a very largo majority it w« carried years ago that the membership should be compulsory, and when the matter wa3 again brought up it was decided to keep it as before, with the exception that anyone belonging to any frisndly society need not join. Since that has ! beeu parsed there is not ono member who has j mentioned that he would like to be relieved from his responsibility of membership. In reply to the chairman, Witness said he could not say what the accumulated funds of the society had amounted to at the time of the strike. Mr Fisher : £400 ? j Witness said he could not contradict Mr Fisher, I and in answer to further questions he said tho i society was not disbanded at the time of the i strike, and had never been disbanded. He never j heard of there being any surrender value in con- ! nection with the society. One of the rules specified that when the funds reached £100 the payments due by the members were stopped until by the ordinary expenditure the Bum was reduced to £75. Mr Fisher : Do you feel by reason of the existence of these rules or regulations that there is any grip upon the men by the company ? i Witness : No. I James Souness requested to be allowed to make an addition to his evidence, and stated with reference to the deposit with the company that the committee wished the company to take another £25 but they would not do so. George Fen wick, journalist, said he was managing director and editor of the Otago Daily Times Company. He had been with the company since its formation. The benefit society was started spontaneously by the men, and he immediately assented to it, seeing the great benefit that would be derived from it by the men. The ; company did not seek directly or indirectly to obtain any pecuniary benefit from the formation of the society. There had been complaints on tb.B part of a very limited number about compulsory membarship, and one man in particular objected to beiDg coerced into joining the society. Theorigin of the society was purely voluatary. It remained so for something like three years but did not work quite satisfactorily. Some men in the office would not join, and it was found most difficult to induce those to become members who would gain most benefit by doing so. A general meeting was held and it was then decided that membership should

be made compulsory. The company had no part in directing that decision. It was decidedly tha wish of the men that a man who did not chose'to pay his subscriptions to the society should be sent away from the office, but in no case was that carried out. The position the compauy took up was this : while wishing to assist the men in every' possible way they would not ro the length of dismissing a man if he refused to join the society. At present it was made compulsory to belong to tlie society or to some other society of standing. He had been asked in the case of one or two who were not members of other societies and would not become members of the society connected with the office, to deduct from their wages the weekly subscriptions. The company" had, however, declined to do that. There never had been a case yet in which any extreme steps hacUtieen. taken. Witness had on more than one occasioa pointed out to the men who wished to be relieved from joining that it was really in their own interests to do bo. If the society had to be dissolved there was no obstacle in the way of the men dividing the funds amongst themselves. It rested entirely with them, to do so. The men who left the employment of the company got uo benefit whatever from the society. The funds of the society at any time could not have been more than £100. Witness could not see that any possible benefit could arisa from the registration of such a society. . Mr Fisher : I a^ked you particularly if you were [ the editor of the Otago Daily Timea. Witness : Yes. Mr Fißher: Well, in another placa I will answer what you have published with regard to this commission. Witness : I think, Mr Fisher, that that is not within the scope of this inquiry. If you have any grievance you can call and speak to me prij vately, and we can discuss it without doing so ! here. At all events lam not going to discuss it ', now with you. ! THE K.VITANGATA BENEFIT SOCIETY. The hi!>t matter considered by the commissioners was with regard to the above society. William P. Watson, general manager of the Kaitangata Railway and Coal Company, said that there was a benefit aociety amongst the men. ,He had not with him a copy of the rules, but could get one for tho commission. The company had no say ii it, nor the ulightest knowledge of tho society's position. He did not think that m«mj bertship was enforced. There wero members <t£ other sociotias at the mine who were not in the j society. At the request of the men themselves I the contributions were deducted from the paysheet and witness sent to the mine a cheque for j the lump sum. No one had ever made any complaint to witness. The mine manager and the j railway manager each made up a sheet and I marked on it the deductions that were to be ! made. The compauy did not subsidise the society nor act as the society's bankers. Witness had never been asked to discharge a man for not joining, aud his board would not interfere in such j a matter. When a man was hurt in the mine i witness visited him, and had a free hand to act ! according to ciicumstances. He had paid in euch. a case, apart from the society, up to £25 and j down 10 £5. A feature of the society was that it included young persons who could not become members nf frieudly societies. There were 180 hands in the employ now, and not so many as 10 I or a dozj'j of these were n<>t members of the ! society. The taking of evidence in Dunedia having been concluded by the commision, The Chairman said : I should like, before this commission ends, to say a few words of thanks and praise for the manner in which the two newspapers of Dunedin have sent their representatives and have reported the affairs of the commission. The reporters have exhibited not only a wise discrimination; but an attention which has been most satisfactory to the members of the commission, and it reflects very great credit upon the newspapers and their staff. Mr Steward : I have very great pleasure in endorsing that. As a newspaper man myself for many years I know the difficulties of reporters in matters of this sort ; and in this iiiquiry it has required a great deal of nous and ability on the part of the reporters, from the mass of evidence that has come before us, to be able to select what is really the wheat from the chaff and to present an intelligible synopsis of the evidence. I am also aware that it is quite possible for a reporter, if he so choose, in making his selection to present an unfair view of, the case. I must say that I think the reporters have been most careful in selecting the evidence for publication, and endeavoured to give, ho far as they were concerned, an entirely colourless report of it — I mean to say, not coloured from the point of view of their own opinions or that of the newspapers. The reports have been carefully compiled, and may be looked upon as true reports of the evidence given at the commission. I have much pleasura in endorsing every word the chairman has said.