WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 18.

Otago Witness, Issue 2170, 26 September 1895, Page 19

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 18.

In the Leai»lMive Council this afternoon the Industrial Conciliation aud Arbitration Bill and the Corrupt Practices Prevent ion Bill were psss-jd. In the House of X*p r e-entatives to - day, as questions were not answered, consideration of the proposed new tariff came ou almost at once. The Premier first obtained a suspension of the Standing Orders to allow of the Customs and Excise Duties Bill, which he introduced, pas^iug more than ooe stage. The Colonial Treasurer moved the s^coud reading, aud was followed by Captain Russell, who did not move the amendment be had given notice of, which at the time the Premier desired to treat as a no confidence motion. During the course of the debate which followed the member for Riccarton attempted to have tho excise duty on colonial beer increased, but the Speaker ruled him out of order. Lat-.r on Me H«ke moved an ameudmeut haviug the same object iv view, but he waa defeated, and the bill was read a second time. THE NEW TARIFF. The Hon. Mr WARD moved the seoond reading of tho Customs aud Excise Duties Bill. He mid that for the la*>t three or four years continual requests had been made to have aiiorualies in the tariff removed and certain modifications mndo in it. This was particularly dfcMrnblo in tbii colooy owing to the varying interests of the two islands. He referred to the labours of tbe Tariff Commis-jion tbat recently travelled through the colony, and said he believed that the commission, to tbe best of its ability, made an honest effort to obtain reliable information to enable tbe Hou»e to arrive at a satisfactory solution of the difficulty. After referring to various tariffs brought down by the Government and the necessities that existed for bringing down amended resolutions to the House, he said there was a desire on the part of a large section of the commuoity to put a duty on imported fruit, and several deputations had made iepr' 6entationa on the subject, pointii:g out that 4000 persons would be prejudicially effected unless a duty were placed on imported fruit. He only mentioned this in order to show that from Auoklaud to Invercnrgill a large section of the public represented toat this duty should bo imposed, and whilst no doubt a good many representations had been made nguiust the fruit duty, there were ju*«t as many iv f»vour of it. He found, however, that there was no hope of passing the fruit, duty through the House, and therefore in det< rei.cß to the wishes of a large portion of the community he had withdrawn the duty from Lland fruit and made the duty on tea 5d per lb. The Government also proposed to remove many anomalies that existed with respect to soft goods which bad caused considerable trouble, and be enumerated a large number of articles on which BIU-rations had been in vie in the duty on goods of this kind. He proposed in Committee to levy a duty of 10 per cent, on all prints under 4d per yard, as he wifrhed to make this duty as light as possible for poor people, who largely used these prints. He referred to the duty on boots and shoes, and said it was one of the most difficult items to deal with sati-fuctorily. It would be very easy to arrange a f»ir duty on these arfe'-cies were it not for the extraordinary competition that existed in all parts of the colooy. There would be no difference of opinion as to tbe putting of a high duty on shoddy boot*. The original proposal of the Government oF 25 per cent, had not proved acceptable to the House, and that w«>B the reafon he amended the re»o'u f ion on this head. As the result of information the Government obtained ! by putting their proposals before the House they submitted another proposal last night, aud the result proved that their original proposition of 25 per cent, ad valorem was most acceptable to the House. Referring to proprietary medicines, he said it feemed to him advisable to put a higher duty on these articles so as to attempt to improve tbi<» class of medicine. He thought the remaining clauses of the bill could be best explained in Committee, and he proposed after the second reading to tell the House the financial result of the tariff proposals. The desire of the Government was to get a good tariff which would not require alteration for many years to come, and he submitted that they bad dove their best to effect that object. The amendments that were made in Committee had been accepted by the Government, and were given effect to in the bill. While tbe Government were prepared to give every latitude in considering the bill, they must reserve to themselves the right of refusing to accept any amendments which would interfere with the revenue. They were told they should increase the duty on colonial beer, but owing to the gr*at uncertainty that existed as to the future of tbi3 indusirythe Government did not feel justiQed in doing that; besides, as far as revenue was concerned, colonial bear was a diminishing quantity, and it would be very unwise on the part of any Government to put increased duty on an article that already showed signs of diminishing. He held tbat if prohibition were carried in the colony it would be the duty of everyone to consider in what other direction the loss of revenue that would result could be made up. He trusted the House would recognise that the tariff was

not a party matter, and that every possible) at'orapt would be made to improve the bill but not to disorganise tha revenue of tho colony in any way. Captain RUSSELL Baid tho whole conduct of the Government in connection with the Tariff Bill was most remarkable, aud the Tieasurer's speech showed that the Gsvernment were in absolute ignorance of the subject. Would anyone believe that the Treasurer could submit a fre#h tariff without having any idea of the amount it would realise P He (Captain Russell) had been vainly endeavouring to ascertain what principle of policy actuated tho Treasurer iv framing this tariff, but all he could gather was that Mr V/a r d had Leen actuated by good intentions. The Treasurer had told ttvm be had had great difficulty iv reconciling the interests of manufacturers and importers, which proved that he was only coD6idtring the iut'jresta of the capitalist clans and neglecting altogether the interests of the workers. He (Captain Ru'sall) was rorely tempted to move the resolutions traversing the taiiff proposals that he had already given notice of, but on I consideration he thought the interests of the public would be better served by bis not moving his resolutions, especially as the whole force of the Government following would be used to defeat them aud to ootnptl their supporters to vote againit their oon-scieuee". He asserted that no cons'deration whatever had been given to this bill and no anomalies had been removed by it. There was no bitnplifkation at all iv the tariff, and he did nob believe that the Treasurer had over thought about the tariff till 48 hours before it was brought down. No consideration had been shown for the poorer cla-ses. Such articles as flhirtiug and the proposal with respect to proprietary medicines, which were mostly used by the workiug elates, were an uawarrautable in'-erferenco with individual enterpriec. He saw no reason why the duty on stained glass windows, which were erected in memory of departed friends, should be subject to duty, as there was no revenue derivable from them and they could not be made here. Referring to wax matches, he strongly condemned the Treasurer's written and verbal promise to Bell, the proprietor of the match factory, th*t there would be no decrease in the duty on wax vestas whilst tho present Government remained in office Such a promise was utterly unwarranted, and the concessions made by Mr Ward to these people meant a profit to them of £12,000 a year, and a corresponding loss to the colony. He referred to the duty of 40 per cent, imposed on British-made clothing, and said the mere matter of revenue (£b'oo a year) was nothing compared with this unwarrantable interference with individual liberty. It would also encourage a low class of goods from England, because an individual paid 100 per cent, morje for his goods thau importers did. He held that the principle they should follow was to et.courage local industry by making everything cheap, aud not by making everything dear. Aftwr regretting that more time was not allowed him to refer to this subject, he said he could put before the House a vast amount of interesting material to show that Protection was nob desirable. Instead of this wretched tinkering with the tariff, they should have one brought down on broad comprehensive lines, so that they might know what they were doing. The Hon. Mr SEDDON asked what the country would profit by Captain Russell's spee-h, which wrs the most mediocre one that ever fell from the hon. gentleman's lip*. The reason of that was that Captain Russell was afraid to risk a thrashing over his amendment. Whero was hih amendment? — (Captmiu Russell: "Where are the refolutiout ?") They tiro in the Bill dow under discussion.— (Members : " No.") He did not, of cuurae, expect to please the Opposition by bis remarks. After referring to Captain Russell's attitude over the tariff brought down by Sir H. Atkinson ia 1888,. he said the member for Hawke's Bay denounced that tariff much more vehemently than on the present occasion, aud they found him not long after sitting on the Treasury benches with the leader whose taiiff he had so opposed. Captain Russell had a-ked what principle pervaded the present tariff. He (Mr Seddon) replied that it was a progressive and colonial policy, which wai necessary in the interests of the colony and its people. Captain Ruisell advocated a Freetrade policy, which would seriously disarrange the finances of the colony, and he asked whether the leader of the Opposition would eoutent to having the revenue made up by direct taxation or a single tax on land. He could understand the maiu difficulty Sir H. Atkinson had in framing his tariff. Sir H. Atkinson had not made it a party question, neither did the present Govenm«ut do so. — (Captain Russkll : "You would do so if I moved my am-udmeut.") Yes; bat that would be necessary in the interests of the colouy. He defended the present tariff, and said it w.n the duty of a Government to frame a tariff that would last for some years. There were only six items that objection was made to in the meantime. They were tea, ftuit, boots and shoes, liuseed oil, and flannelette. There might be other objections made in committee, but he told Iho Houee that the Government would not accept any alterations which would iut*.rfere with the revenue. They were determined to maintain a strong finance. His opiuion was that the alterations, made in the tariff w«re an improvement on the whole. T£e Government were delighted last night to see Captain Russell supporting Mr T. Mackenzie's amendment to put 25 per cent on boots, as that amount would give the Government more revenue than the propotaia of the Government would. Referring to Captain Russell's remarks about the duty on shirtings, he pointed out that Mr Ward intended reducing the duty on cheap prints costing less than 4d per yard. He denied that I the Government intended increasing the duties on the poorer classes. He detended the Government over wax matches, and said those matches were much cheaper now than when the original tariff was in force. He deuitd that Mr Ward had made any promise to Bell, as Captain Russell stated, and he had never promised that so long as the Government remained in office there would be no decrease in the match duty. As regards the objections to the increased duty on British made goods, he gaid that those who wanted a British-made suit should not object to an extra duty. Captain RUSSELL explained that in the evidence of the Tariff Commission there was the testimony of Bell that he hacW written and verbal promise from Mr Ward respecting the match duty. The Hon. Mr WARD said what he had promised to Bell was that the Government would recdrnnvnd to Parliament that no decrease* should be made in the match dnty. In reply to Captain RufSdll, the Hon. Mr WALtD siid the difference between the present tariff proposals and the former oneß waa a fair estimated gain to the revenue of £4000. Mr T. MACKENZIE said the gain would be mote like £20,000. He defended the supporters of the late Sir Harry Atkinson from the aspersions cast on them by Mr Seddon respecting their reception of the tariff of 1888. He said those men, instead of being intriguers, as charged by Mr Seddon, were actuated with the best motives, and would not, like the supporters of the preeoat Government, vote one way

to-day and in another direction to-morrow. Ho ridiculed Mr Seddon'o asser'ion that the amount propoiod by him (Mr Mackouzie) respecting the duty on boots would give the Government extra revenue, and s*id 6uoh a bt .tumenfc was absolutely contrary to fact, es he could oasily prove. He combated severed of the statement* made by tho Treasurer and Premier, aud said, with resptcb to Mr Seddou's assertion that only six itetua had been objected to, that he himself had put on the Order Paper more than »ix items on which he would propose amendments. Tho Treisuier had stated that 4000 people would be serioui'ly sffaeted if there was no duty on fruit, but Mr Ward had overlooked the evidence taken by tho Tariff Commission on the other side. That evidence was that it was uot a question of duty at all, but the fact was that the people of the colony were too lazy to grow fiuit. Mr BELL characterised the statement made by the Piemier with lespect to the action ot the late Sir Harry Atkinson's supporters in 1888 cc a calumny which should not be uttered. He (Mr Bell) was not in the House at the time, but ho kuew what was going on just as well as the Premier. Mr DUTHIE admitted that the task of framing a tariff was a formidable one. The Treasurer had utaled that the present tariff removed several anomalies, but he o<nfideicd that iv thnt respect they were not a sttp further thau they were before. The tariff ss framed would produce an increased roveuue of £50,000. No sound reason could be given for many of the alterations made, several of which would do great harm. But he would do nothiug to int-irfera with the Treasurer's finance. Mr M'LACHLAN thought this tariff was framed fur tho express purposo of fostering local industry by iaear.B of high protective duties. There waa no Quality to it, as the Protectionists were never satisfied, and no matter what they got to-day they would want more to-morrow. The beat aud most successful industries were those which required no protection. He characterissd the present tariff as a most extraordinary one and most humiliating to the Govcrament. Mr COLLINS thought the country generally would hail the amended tariff proposals with a large amuuut of satisfaction. He himself had receivtd several telegrams the effect of which was generally that the proposals were well received. Mr G. W. RUSSELL regretted that the Government had not whilst making other increases in duties increased (ho duty on boer. The Colonial Trta-urer had stated that it would no» be wise in view of the probabilities of prohibition being carried in the colony to increase the duty on beer, but he actually proposed to increase the duty on spirits and imported beer to the extent of se-vtral thousands of pounds, so that complitely cut the ground from the TreuHurei-'o feet. He proposed, in order to bo consistent, to move an amendment that a duty be placed on colonial beer. He also regretted tbat priaon-made goods wete not prohibited altog. ther. He moved as an amendment that the Becoud reading of the Customs and Excise Duty Bill bo po3tpoacd till next sitting day, as au indication that the excise duty on colonial beer bo raised by three haltpeuce per gallon. Thu SPEAKER iuled that a private member could uOi interpose to levy a duty on beer. That was the tunction ot Ministers of the Crown. Mr GRAHAM said the Govsrnment had made such a mess of the tariff that they must fervently hope they would never again bo callei on to revise the tariff. He should make one to bring boots and shoes back to their original duty— namely, 20 pev cent, ad valorem. If th&t were not sufficient protection for any industry in tbe cnlouy it ought to be. The Hon. Mr SEDDON moved, at 11.20 p.m., that the Standing Orders be suspended in order to allow new business to be takeu after midnight. He promised not to keep members later than half-past 1 in the morning — Carried by 46 to 9. Mr ALLEN denied that tho bill now before the House was in accordance with the resolutions passed by the Committee of Ways and Means, as stated by the Premier. It appeared to him that in framing the bill some of the Ministry wisheel to impose heavy protective duties, wh'Ut others were agiinst that. The Treasurer had told them that the bill contained the largest number of exemptions yet made, but several of the articles were already on the free list. Mr HEKE thought the new tariff proposals not very satisfactory. Several matters were left out of the tariff. He moved as an amendment that the alterations made in the bill are unsatisfactory, inasmuch as in arranging the tariff au excise duty on colonial beer is not taken into consideration. Mr BUTTON objected to members constantly saying that those who voted for the duty on Island fruit on Friday night should follow it up. He held himself perfectly free to deal with item? in the tariff a* he thought proper. He thought the pretetit tariff should be called the " wobbling tariff." The Hon. Mr WARD thought if anybody had wabbled in thiß matler it was Mr Button himself. He said Mr Dulhie was entirely wrong in stating that the new proposals would mean an increased revenue of £80,000, and he believed he had given the House a fair estimate when epeaking earlier in the debate. From a careful estimate he thought tho Government would have about £4000 on the right side by their proposals. He need scarcely say the Government could not accept Mr Heke's amendment. It waa the third attempt made to traverse the Government proposals. As to the point raised by Mr Duthie whether a refund of duty was to be made owiog to the recent tariff changes, he should take the opiuion of the law officers on it. Mr Heke's amendment was loat by 36 to 16. The second reading was carried on the voices. MORTGAGES. Last night I sent the totals of the mortgage returns as tabled, but the following details will be found interesting :— The total number was 9111, aggregating £4,858,766, and of these the interest on £995,400 wae unspecified. The amounts under 4 percent, amounted to £73,730, £195,327 was at b per cent., £146,598 at 5£ per cent , £822,891 at 6 per cent., £95,416 at 6£ per cent., £721,526 at 6£ per cent., £14,002 at Gi per cent., £871,940 at 7 per cent., £142,865 at 7jr per cent., £511,412 at 8 per cent., £31,715 at 8| per cent., £96,808 at 9 per cent., £114,867 at 10 per cent. Various rates of interest were charged on small Bams up to 40 per cent, which was registered against a £50 mortgage, and 22£ per cent, against £40. Twenty per cent, was rejjis^red against £901, 15 per cent, against £2435, 12 per cent, and 12£ per cent, against £1329 and £1590 respectively.