Monday, August 13. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Witness, Issue 1917, 17 August 1888, Page 16

Monday, August 13. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

AMENDMENTS By THE COUNCIL. The Land Act Amendment Bill was received from the Legislative Council with slight amendments, which were agreed to. The Hod, G, F, RICHARDSON moved-

" That the amendments made by the Council in th Mining Act Amendment Bill be disagreed With, and that a committee to consist of Messrs Grimmond, Reeves, and the mover be appointed, to draw up reasons for the disagreement." Sir G. GREY moved—" That the debate be adjourned till to-morrow."— Agreed to. ' NATIVE LAND BILLS. The Native Land Court Act Amendment Bill was further considered in committee. Mr CARROLL asked for an explanation of clause 2, 3, and 4. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON said the object of these clauses was to enable dealings to be carried on in respect of land held under certificate of title and memorial of ownership which, although good, holding a title would not permit of a Crown grant being issued. Clause 2, providing for the registration of Native land not held by a Crown grant. Mr HUTCHISON moved an amendment to extend the operation of the clause to less than the whole number of owners. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON could not accept the amendment as it would place too much power in the hands of a judge and take it away from the House. Sir G. GREY urged that the bills be postponed till next session to give further time for their consideration. Mr HUTCHISON asked whether the Premier would accept an amendment leaving the clause to apply to future transactions, and allowing past ones to bo dealt with specially. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON accepted that amendment. Mr TAIWHANGA said he had been accused by the newspaper of wasting the time of the House. He regretted having done this ; but, if this bill were not postponed till after the meeting of Waitangi, he should, by the advice of the Native chiefs, oppose it in the same manner as he had opposed the Native Land Bill last week. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON asked whether he had made that statement under the advice of the Native chiefs. Mr TAIWHANGA replied in the affirmative. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON then appealed to the chairman as to whether that was not threatening Parliament. - Mr HAMLIN said it certainly was a threat against the privileges oi Parliament, and could not be tolerated. Sir G. GREY defended Mr Taiwhanga's action, and said he should not have been questioned by the Premier in that manner. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON said Mr Taiwhanga had given him hia personal honour that if he (the Premier) agreed to a certain course he (Mr Taiwhanga) would cease stonewalling the Native bills, and now, at the command of certain Native chiefs outside the House, he threatened deliberately to break his word ; and he warned him that he was breaking all Parliamentary rules in making the threat he had now uttered. If he persisted in repeating that threat he (the Premier) would be compelled to bring the matter before the House. Mr TAIWHANGA denied that he promised to cease stonewalling all the Native bills. It was only the Native Land Bill. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON said there was no doubt whatever — and the whole House understood it in the same way — -.that Mr Taiwhanga's promise extended to the whole of the Native bills. If he (the Premier) had not taken it in that light he should have asked the House tp proceed with tha whole of the bills on Friday night. Mr CARROLL corroborated, the Premier's statement, and said he also understood his colleague to promise that he would withdraw his opposition from all the Native bills if the Native chiefs were allowed to appear at the bar of the House. Mr PRATT also took the same view, and said Mr Taiwhanga's promise referred to the whole of the bills. If he broke his word now the word of a Native would not be accepted on future occasions. Mr TAIPUA expressed his intention to propose only reasonable amendments in the bill, and said he should take no further part in stonewalling. Mr TAIWHANGA regretted that the three other Native members were against him, but he thanked those European members who had stood by him, a^d who had more sympathy with the Maoris'than the Native members had. He suggested that tho bills should be postponed till half-past 7, and that the Premier and Native Minister should meet the Native chief? now in Wellington. If they also turned against him he should withdraw his opposition. Mr Hutchison's second amendment was carried on the voices, — the first one, which the Premier objected to, being withdrawn. Clause tw,o as amended was then agreed to. Clause 3, title brought under Land Transfer Act. Mr CARROLL moved— "• That assesors should assist chief judge in ascertaining the bona fides of a transaction." — Agreed to. ' Mr TAIWHANGA said he had to thank those members who had assisted him in opposing the Native bills, and he expressed surprise that the Native members Should turn round on their own people in this manner. He, however, could not remain in the House while a bill was passing which would do such injury to the Natives, and he therefore should leave it. He then walked out of the chamber. Clause 3 was agreed to. Clause 7, Crown claims in respect of moneys advanced may be satisfied. Mr TAIPUA strongly objected to. this clause, and moved that it be struck out. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON defended the clause. After a lengthy discussion, the Premier agreed to meet thf§ objections made against 'the clause by a proposal that the Government should take half the amount of claims. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON, in reply to a question, said that from £80,000 to £100,000 of those advances were cut ; but most of them were properly advanced, and would be cecovered. The advances had all been made sitce the initiation of the Public Works policy. Messrs SAMUEL and MOSS -suggested that the liability of those Natives should only extend to six years back. ( Mr TAIPUA said if the Premier insisted on this clause he was no friend of the Natives. ' Mr CARROLL also thought this clause might very well be struck out altogether. It' was enough to make .the Natives think that the Government was .dealing espfcially hard with them. Sir G. GREY hoped the clause would be kept over for another bill next session. He was etrongly opposed to a provision of this kind appearing in the bill. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON moved an amendment that the court before paying such money shall be satisfied that it has a legal claim for the money actually paid for the land purchased. Messrs CARROLL and TAIPUA again urged that the clause should be struck out, and spoke at some length on it. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON said the olanse was now in a reasonable shape, and all that it asked for was to enable tb.B Government to recover the money that had been paid for the purchase of land. . He. thought the Native mem*

bers were taking a somewhat unreasonable view of the matter. : > , Mr CARROLL denied that the Natives were unreasonable, hut he must say that he regarded this clause with some suspicion. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON then moved that the clause be amended to provide that not more than half the money shall be payable. — Agreed to. The clause was amended to provide that due notice must be given to the Natives, and that the money claimed should be proved to have been received on account of land. On Mr SAMUEL'S motion, in the interpretation clause the word "Native" was altered so as to read the "descendants of half castes by Natives." In the new clause providing that restrictions on alienation may be annulled or varied by order of the court on application by any owner of such land, Mr PRATT moved—" That this bill should not apply to the South Island. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON agreed with that amendment, and ho should be prepared to insert a clause to that effect. New clause 14, The Hon. J. BALLANCE moved an amendment to the clause that no person or company shall acquire a freehold of more than 5000 acres of Native land. The amendment elicited a long discussion. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON said he had great sympathy with the proposal, but feared it was impracticable, and he thought the wisest plan would be to pass the bill as it stood. The amendment was carried by 31 to 16. Mr TAIPUA move! a further amendment — 11 That every Native in alienating lands should retain 200 acres for himself." — Lost by 28 to 10. The clause as amended was carried. Clause 18, deeds conveying undivided shares in Native land. Mr HUTCHISON moved an amendment to make the clause applicable to all past transactions that were in regular form and not in contravention of the act. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON opposed the amendment and hoped the House would reject it. The amendment was carried by 24 to 21. The Hon. Sir H. A. ATKINSON moved to report progress on the bill. — Agreed to. The House went into committee on the Native Lands Fraud Prevention Act Amendment Bill, which passed with verbal amendments. After 2 o'clock in the morning clause 8 was -.truck out of the Native Land Frauds Proveution Act Amendment Bill as there appeared some doubt as to the exact nature ef its effect, and the bill was reported with amendments. The Maori Real Estate Mauagemenb Bill passed through committee. These two measures were read a third time and passed. THE NEW LAND ACT. It will be remembered that some weeks ago a meeting of Canterbury members was held at thd instance of Major Steward to consider the provisions of the new Land Act as affecting the Canterbury runs, the, leases of which will fall in in 1890. The result was that provisions were submitted to the Government providing for the division of the land in three clauses in* stead of two as originally proposed, also for securing general publicity to the classification by means of sending plans and descriptions to county councils and road boards, and displaying the same at railway stations and post offices. These proposals were accepted hy the Government, but io. the Upper House the clause relating to publicity has been struck out and some alterations made in the clause prescribing the manner in which the various classes of lands are to be dealt with. Major Steward convened a meeting this morning to consider the effect of these alterations. It was slated that the Minister of Lands was willing to give an undertaking that, notwithstanding the clause relating to publicity being struck out by the Council, the Government would act upon the expressed wish of the House in that particular. With regard toj;he alterations in • the clause, Major Steward said that the use of the word •* shall " in the first part of the clause had a mandatory effect and governed the whole, and if he were right in that contention the result •would be that all lands in clause 2 (pastoral lands capable of being worked in areas not exceeding 5000 acres) must be dealt with under part six of the Land Act, that is to say, could only be leased as pastoral ruus, and no lands included within the clause could be dealt with under the perpetual lease or deferred payment system, nor could they bs sold for cash, ft was agreed that the matter should be definitely settled, and a deputation consisting of Messrs Rhodes, "Perceval, and M'Gregor waited upon the Minister of Lands to represent the views of the meeting. The advice of the Solicitor-general was aftecwards obtained, and was to the effect that the terms of the amendment in the Council lef fc the question opep to. doubt, and I understand a verbal amendment will be proposed by the Government with a view of removing the difficulty. In the House to-day the Minister of Lands repeated the assurances already given as to giving due publicity, and" the verbal Amendment in the bill of substituting " may " for " shall " in the clause abovenamed was made. OUR MINERAL EXHIBITS AT THE MELBOURNE EXHIBITION. The Goldfields Committee to-day took further evidence re the mineral exhibits at the Melbourne Exhibition. The Royal Commiasioners it seems offered £6 (£3500 being devoted towards the expense of representing the colony at the exhibition) for procuring exhibits from the Thames district. The Minister of Mines had informed the Committee of Management that all the exhibits of auriferous quart? forwarded must pay duty or a bond be given that the exhibits would be reimported. The intending exhibitors objected to this restriction. Mr Seddon brought the matter under the notice of the Premier, and the Premier has withdrawn all restrictions on aurferious quartz or argentiferous ores or gold specimens which are reported to be solely for exhibition through the Exhibition Commissioners. The chairman of the Goldfields Committee was instructed to communicate with the various local bodies in mining districts, asking their assistance in procuring exhibits in bulk of .quartz and argentiferous ores and other valuable minerals. The committee will probably report on Wednesday next. In obedience^ to, the resolution arrived at in committee, Mr Seddon this evening wired the following circular to the chairman of all the local bodies in the goldfields districts in the colony: — " With a view of encouraging the mining industries of the colony and assisting the Melbourne Exhibition, the Royal Commissioners are having the New Zealand mineral exhibits augmented, and shown in greater bulk. Your further cooperation and assistance is most respectfully solicited. That assistance can best be rendered by procuring from the several mines in your districts, say five tons of quartz, giving the names of the mines from which the stone has been obtained, the area of the ground held, and the average yield of gold or silver per ton of quartz crusher), width of seam, &c. If any other valuable minerals or auriferous sands exist in your district and are procurable in quantities, contributions will be most acceptable. Please reply to-morrow if possible, and state earliest

date your contributions can be shipped. I may also inform you that the restrictions and pay. nient of duty on exhibits of auriferous quartz specimens, cement, auriferous or argentiferous ores have been removed by the Colonial Treasurer. Kindly ask the assistance of the mine managers and others interested in your locality." Since sending my message re Goldfields Committee and the circular' sent by Mr Seddon to toe local bodies, I have had an interview with the Minister for Mines on the subject; Jlr Richardson informs me that the Government through the Minei department had commnni. cated with the heads of local bodies with the object of obtaining samples of ores from Otago, the West Coast, and Thames, to he displayed at the Melbourne Exhibition. Mr Gordon, of the Mines department, has requested the local representatives to forward auriferous stone in ton samples for the purposes of crushing at the exhibition. The Government have decided to allow all bona Jide exhibits to be sent free from gold duty. The Minister informs me that it is intended to send over about 10 tons of quartz to the exhibition. He thinks, so far as minerals are concerned, New Zealand will yet make a very creditable show in Melbourne. SEACLIFF ASYLUM. On making further inquiries to-day relative to Seacliff Asylum, I learned that some new cracks had been observed in the wall, and that lots of landslips threaten to occur. On the information reaching the department of Public Works, Mr Hay, oue of the staff, was sent down to examine and report on the building. A telegram was received from' Mr Hay this morning that the new cracks referred to had taken place, and that the laud was slipping in the immediate neighbourhood of the asylum. Mr Hay is expected to return here, to-morrow, and steps will, I understand, be immediately taken to give effedt to the recommendations which he will make to ensure the safety of the building. CATTLE ON RAILWAY LINES. Mr Ward is taking an active interest in the subject of railway fencing, with a view to preventing the killing and maiming of cattle through coming iuto contact with trains in motion. He is to ask the Minister of Public Works on Wednesday next if he does not consider it desirable that a record should be kept by the Railway department of" all cattle, &c, maimed or killed on railways, and if so, will he instruct accordingly. If the Minister does not consider it a stigma upon the colony that a regulation should exist prohibiting the railway employes from ending the misery of cattle, &c. maimed beyond recovery by contact by trains, and if he will alter the regulations so that cattle, &c. maimed may be killed outright. He will also move that a return belaid before the House showing— first, how many miles of railway in the colony are already substantially fenced ; second, how many mUes of railway in the colony are fenced iv an insufficient manner; third, how many miles remain to be fenced ; fourth, how many miles urgently require fencing owing ■to danger from trespass by cattle, &c. CATLIN'S RAILWAY. Mr T. Mackenzie presented a petition this afternoon from a large number of settlers in the Glenomaru arid Catlin's districts praying that the Glenoniaru section of the Catlin's railway may be speedily completed. THE STONEWALLING. Mr Sidney Taiwhanga has hauled down his colours this evening and surrendered. He had made up his mind to continue his obstruction tacfcios, but his Maori colleagues refused point blank to assist him in opposing the measure. Even Mr Taipua, who had backed him up in stonewalling the Native Land Bill, decided to go no further in that direction. Mr Taiwhanga finding himself fighting single-handed against overwhelming odds was* forced to accept the inevitable. Before doing so, however, he uttered an indignant protest, and then shook the dust of the chamber from tis shoes, and walked out to the lobby declaring he intended to leave the House. He did not, however, enlighten hon. members as to the permaaenoy or otherwise of his retirement. After Mr Taiwhanga had made his exit the debate dragged on in a somewhat wearisome style.