HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Witness, Issue 1500, 14 August 1880, Page 12

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Thursday, sth August, goldfields committee. Mr FISHER brought up the report of the Goldfields Committee on the petition of Henry Rowe and others, stating that the Committee had no recommendations to make, and repro* bating grave cbargea being made against the Warden and Besident Magistrate at the Thames without any evidence being forthcoming in support of the same. BEPLIES TO QUESTIONS. In reply to Mr Fulton. The Hon. Mr OLIVER said payments of compensation for land for railway purposes at North Taieri were in course of being adjusted. Many of these claims, however, were of a most extravagant nature. TABANAKI IRON SMELTING WOBKS. The bill was read a third lime and passed. WELLINGTON BACING OLUB BILL. The interrupted debate on the Wellington Racing Club Bill was resumed. Mr HUTCHISON moved, as an amendment—"That the bill be road that day six months." Sir W. FOX supported the amendment. He made some very severe strictures on horseraces. They were resorted to by very questionable characters for equally questionable purposej, He denied that taring tended to im-

prove the breed of horses; it destroyed the breed of men, but it did not improve the breed of horses. As a matter of fact the breed was every year deteriorating. They could not find anything but mere scrubbers nowadays, that could not do more than 30 miles a day. That showed, despite all that had been said to the contrary, that horse - racing was doing nothing towards improving their horses. It was not horse-racing _ that attracted the crowd ; it was the saturnalia attending horse-racing that attracted the masses. Criticising the bill, he pointed out that the Club might appropriate the land for the purpose of paying its debts— in {other words, discharge all the questionable liabilities it might choose to contract with thimble-riggers, blacklegs, jockey boys, and other questionable characters who frequented these racecourses. Mr IRELAND uupported the amendment, and in doing bo described horse-racing as an " immoral purpose." In reply Mr LEVIN said, in looking over files of the Wellington papers of 1857, he was astonished to find the name of Mr Wm. Fox aB a prominent steward and member of the Race Club. That Mr Fox and Sir Wm, Fox, whom they had just heard denounce this sport in such graphic terms, were, strange to say, one and the same person. He alluded to the fact to show the value of the elegant denunciation they had heard against horse-racing. The motion for the second reading was carried on the vote by 22 to 16, and the bill was read a second time. SECOND READINGS. The following bills were also read a second time :— lnchClutha Act 1878 Amendment Bill, Christchurch District Drainage Act 1875 Amendment Bill. Evening Sitting. The House resumed at 7.30. DECEASED WIFE'S SISTBB MABBIAGE BILL, On the motion for going into Committee on the Deceased Wife's Sister Marriage Bill, Mr BOWEN, in objecting to the bill, said that it would dissolve very much social relations which existed at present, and would import a great: deal of unpleasautnees into domestic relations. Mr TO MO ANA said that before missionaries came here this was the law. Now, however,, marriage waß carried on on a different basis. Maoris who married their deceased wife's sißter were those who ignored the Church. He would ask members not to consent to this bill. They had other matters of more importance to attend to. It came to this, tbat # European members were reverting to Maori customs. Therefore he would not support the bill. Mr FINN moved, and Mr LUNDON seconded, that the bill be committed that day six months. The Hon. Mr HALL could not find that there was any solid argument against the restriction. la that House similar measures to this had been passed always by increasing j majorities. The only objection worth considering was the social inexpediency. That difficulty had not been conspicuous in the vast majority of countries in which the law had been adopted. Great Britain was now almost the only portion of the British Empire where the restriction was maintained. If it was an ob jection to have a deceased wife's sister in one's home under these conditions, then it must be argued that all females are to be excluded from the household of a widower.

Dr WALLIS said they had learned from the Maoris the true nature of this proposal, that it was an attempt to revive practices re jected by Maoris when they ceased to be savages. This proposal gave him the idea that their civilisation was pretty much like a tide : it rose to a certain height, and then it reverted back to the state from which it emerged. They should paeß the woman's franchise, and allow that element to have a say on the subject. Major TE WHEORO would support the bill because it reminded him of the Maori customs of the old days. Nothing gave him greater pleasure than to see Europeans come round to their customs. Mr TAWH AI also testified to the fact that this bill coincided with old Maori customs. Having brought forward a bill of this sort, he thought the members supporting it should call themselves Maoris. Still he would vote against the bill. The»bill Baid to him as a Maori, " Eeturn, go back to your old customs." The House divided on the motion for going into Committee—ayes 26, noes 14. The House then went into Committee. Mr THOMSON moved an amendment to the effect that the bill should not be retrospective. On a division, the amendment was lost by 40 to 11. At 1 a.m. the debate bad not concluded. Mr Seddon bad been speaking at great length. DECEASED WIFE'S SISTER MARRIAGE BILL, The debate on the motion for the committal of the Deceased Wife's Sister Marriage Bill was continued after our report closed. Dr WALLIS next spoke at some length, and the talk went on till 2.40, when, on the suggestion of Major ATKINSON, it was agreed that the third reading be taken on Thursday next, at 7.30. The bill was then reported without amendments. On the motion to fix the date of the third reading as arranged, Mr J. C BROWN moved an amendment that it be now read a third time. On the House dividing the amendment was lost by 32 to 29, and the motion was agreed to. THE COUNTIES BILL. In Committee on the Counties Bill, the following new clause was added, on the motion of Mr MURRAY :-" It shall be lawful for the councils of two or more counties to unite for the construction, repair, use, and maintenance of bridges, road 3, tramways, and fences in any of such counties." The following additional clause, moved by Mr EEEVES, was added, on a division of 24 to 25, to the powers contained in section 30 of the Counties Act, 1876 :—" The Governor- in-Council may by proclamation alter the boundaries of any county, and from and after a day to be named in such proclamation the new boundaries set forth in such proclamation shall be the boundaries of such county, subject, however, to the condition that a petition shall have to be presented to the Governor, signed by three-fourths of the ratepayers of a riding, praying that such a^ riding may be severed from the county in which it is situated, and made a part of some other and contiguous county. The provisions of sections 31, 32, 33, 34, and 35 shall be read with and be deemed to be part of this Act." The bill, as amended, was reported. OTHER BILLS. The Land Transfer Act Amendment Bill was passed through Committee and reported with amendments. The Districts Roads Bill was read a second time, and passed. The Otago Roads Rate Validation Bill was read a second time, passed through Committee without amendment, read a third time, and Pa The House adjourned at 1.20 p.m. till 2 30.

NATIVE LAND SALES BILL. The House went into Cominitcee on the Native Land Sales Bill. In clause 3 Mr R. WOOD moved that word "may " be substituted for word " shall," bo as

to make the clause read, " that Natives may at [ their own option bring their land under the Act." Captain RUSSELL felt convinced that the effect of the bill would be to prevent land being sold at all. He did not think the bill as it stood would give satisfaction, and he would support the amendment. Captain COLBEOK concurred. So strongly did the Natives feel on the subject that he felt convinced they would be prepared to fight rather than submit to the measure. Mr SHEEHAN was quite sure if the bill passed as it stood, no laud would be brought under its operation, or if it did it would pass out of the hands of the Natives without any corresponding advantages being secured by them. Sir G. GREY said that when the amendment was disposed of he would move the following addition :—" Except as herein provided in the case of Native lands vested in trustees." Major TE WHEORO said that he would support the amendment for leaving lauds to be dealt with by the Native Committee. The Maoris should be empowered to elect these Committees, defining the powers they are to be allowed to exercise. Despite what newspapers had said to the cantrary, he denied that the Native members were actuated by factious motives, The question was put that the clause aa printed remain part of the bill, with the result —ayes, 34 ; noes, 25. The following is the division list:— Ayes— Andrews, Alkiuson, Bain, Ballance, Bi-yce, De Lautour, Dick, J. B. Fiaher, J. T. Fisher, Fox, Gisborne, Grey, Hall, Harris, Hursthouse, Ireland, Jones, Kelly, Macandrew, Moss, Pitt, Pyke, Rollesson, Shrimski, Speight, Te Wheoro, Thorn ?on, Tole, Tomoana, Trimble, Turnbull, Wright. Noes— Barron, Beetham, Bowen, Brown, Buckley, Colbeck, Gibba, Hamlin, Hirsfc, Johnston, Lundon, M'Donald, M'Lean, Ormond, Reid, Reeves, Russell, Shanks, Sheehan, Shephard, Steven?, Swanson, Tainui, Whyte, Wood. Sir GEORGE GREY moved the amendment of which he had given notice. His object was to provide tbat the sale of ,the lands should be open to competition in open market, and the Natives themselves get a fair price lor their lands. Details of tne plan would be unfolded in amendments to be introduced into other clauses of the bill. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

Evening Sitting. The House resumed at 7.30. PDBLIO WOBKS STATEMENT. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, The Hon. Mr OLIVER delivered the Public Works Statement, which will be found elsbwhere. Mr MACANDREW, in suggesting that the House do now adjourn, referring to the Statement just made, said he was disappointed but not greatly surprised. Had the late Government been allowed to remain in office, he believed that no interruption would have taken place in tho prosecution of the Public Works policy of 1870. He thought the least thing tho House could do at pment was to adjourn and think the butter over. . v The Hon. Mr HALL said the Government was in the hand 3 of the House as regarded the question of adjournment. He thought, however, they should go on with some otner work. He hoped that hon. member would in the discussion that must necessarily ensue show how ifc was possible to go on with their Public Works policy as they had been doing two years ago. There was this differnnce between their presont position and that of the preceding two years— they knew the real state of affairs now, whereas twn years ago they did not. Mr IRELAND demanded that the Government should state what was proposed to be done about the Kelso line. He had been told that the Public Works Statement would inform him, but the line was not mentioned. The Hon. Mr OLIVER said that the hon. member was not singular in his desire for information of this kind. It was impovsible for them to fulfil one-half tho promises made regarding the prosecution of railways. They would just have to wait on, and see what the development of events would bring about. Mr BARRON directed attention to a motion standing in his name re the withdrawal of the subsidies to local bodies, which had lapsed. He concluded by moving that these subsidies be paid up to the end of 1881, Mr PYKE said that he could see no reason whatever why the Government should delay j giving the Houee information on the subject of its intentions regarding subsidies, The present state of matters was exercising a most iujurious I effect on the Colony generally. Local bodies were, in view of the present uncertain state of matters, debarred from prosecuting necessary works. Until thejFinancial Arrangements Aot was repealed, the subsidies would have to be i paid. | Mr M'LE AN asked where the money to pay these subaidieß was to be got. There was a deficiency of L 225.000, and if they added L 275.000 for subsidies, that would make a total deficiency of L 500,000. The country could stand no more taxation.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON said that if the motion had been coupled with a proposal to double the property tax, then it would have been worth while diseasing; but with an empty exchequer it wa3 impossible to find the wherewithal to pay a sum of L 300,000. It ill became the member for Dunsttfn to make the remarks he had done, seeing that he was chairman of a county in debt to the Government. It was no breach of faith on the part of the Government, the suspension of these subsidies. Fair warning had been given them. Local bodies were part and parcel of the Government of the country, and it was quite impossible to meet the demand for these subsidies unless there was, more taxation imposed. Last year they had full notice that these subsidies would be stopped. There was not, as a matter of fact, any subsidy due up to next June, the sums having been paid up to 30th June last. He regrotted the necessity for stopping these subsidies, but he did not sympathise with those bodies who had entered into large engagements on the faith of their subsidies. There was timely warning of their probable suspension. He advised that the motion should be withdrawn, as the payment of subsidies simply meant additional taxation. Mr GEORGE moved the adjournment of the debate. Mr PYKE, speaking to the adjournment, said they had been asked how the subsidies were to be provided for. There was L 300,000 of estimated Land Fund. That was a fund out of which the subsidies should be paid without the necessity of going to the Consolidated Revenue at all. It was a mistake to say there had been no breach of faith in the matter. jUndor the Financial Arrange ments Act, the Government and Parliament undertook to pay those subsidies for a period of five years. In virtue of that the local bodies were justified in entering into contracts in anticipation of subsidies being paid until the expiry of that time. He denied that they had had fair notice that the subsidies would be suspended. The notice given last year was accompanied with an assurance that other

satisfactory arrangements would be made for these bodies. He would strongly advise the Government to take their financial proposals and get them remodelled. He hoped the motion would be withdrawn in the meantime, until the whole of the Government proposals re local bodies were before the country. Major HARRIS said that abolition was carried out on the understanding that five years' subsidies were to be paid. This was a direct breach of faith, and he hoped the motion would not ba withdrawn. Mr RICHARDSON was sorry that in accordance with the usu practice the House had not adjourned after the Statement had been delivered. The motion for the adjournment of debate was withdrawn ; also the motion made by Mr Barron ; and on the motion of the Hon. Mr HALL the House adjourned at 9.15.

Monday, dm August. SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE. The Hon. Mr HALL moved—"That unless otherwise ordered the House do sit Fridays and Mondays at 11 a.m. during the remainder of the session; that on these days Select Committees have leave to sit during tbo sitting of the House." In accordance with the promise he made last week he would now state to the House the business proposed to be gone on with, and which they proposed should be dropped. Hitherto the progress of business had not been as satisfactory as they could have wished. He was not prepared to say what was the reason of this—whether it arose from the peculiar state of parties or the tendency of members to talk at great length. Be that as it might, the fact nevertheless/ remained that the progress made had not been altogether satisfactory. The period of the session had now arrived when, in order to secure the passing of bills which were absolutely indispensable, they must make up their minds to sacrifice the less important measures. The Government had very carefully considered the question, and had separated the bills on the paper into four classes. The fourth class included the Town District Bill, Fisheries Bill, Education Reserves Amendment Bill, Public Entertainments Prohibition Bill, Cemeteries Bill, New Zealand University Reserves Bill, Canterbury Rivers Act Amendment Bill, Auctioneers Bill, Fire and Marine Companies Bill, Gaming and Lotteries Bill, Hawkers and Pedlars Bill, and the Peace Preservation Bill. These 12 bills would have to be victims where blood must unhappily be shed, and it would be his painful duty to move in due course that they be discharged from the order paper. He would part with them with much regret, as most of them were looked for by the country. He hoped, however, he would renew acquaintance with them at as early a date as possible. It was proposed to deal with the following at the morning sittings: —Counties Acfc Amendment Bill, High School Reserves Bill; Joint Stock Companies Act, 1860, Amendment Bill; Dog Begistration Bill; Brands and Branding Bill; Fencing Bill; Impounding Bill; Thames Water Supply Transfer Bill; Rabbit Nuisance Bill. One or two of these were already almost through, and there would not be much difference of opinion about them. As to the others in the class, if there was any serious opposition the Government would be compelled I to postpone them. The next class of bills, which the Government called desirable bills, included some of the Native Bills, the Licensing Bill, Representation Bill, Regulation of Local Elections Bill, and Corrupt Practice Preventions Bill. The course taken with these would depend upon what was done with the next class. The Licensing Bill he looked upon as a very useful measure, but he could make no promise regarding it. With regard to the Representation Bill he had heard many members expressing the opinion that it was undesirable to proceed with it this session. That, however, was not his opinion. For many reasons he thought it very desirable that that bill should be pressed oh this session. The Government were anxious that this should be done, but it would depend entirely on the House whether it was passed or not. He would take the earliest opportunity of moving the second reading, and then it would be seen whether it would be necessary to drop it. Upon this would depend the passing of the Regulation of Elections and Corrupt Practices Bills, as, if the Representation Bill was not passed this session, then the other two would have to be postponed till next session. With regard to the Native Bills, which included the following—Native Land Courts Bill, Native Land Frauds Prevention Bill, Native Succession Bill, Native Land Sales Bill, Native Land Contracts Act Validation Bill, Native Land Stamp Duties Bill, Waikato Confiscated Land Bill, Miscellaneous Native Claims Bill, Native Reserves Bill — the Government could scarcely hope the whole would become law this session. The Native Land Courts Bill had met with great favour, and doubtless would pass into law; and it was hoped the Native Lands Frauds Prevention, the Native Succession, and Confiscated Land Bills would also. As to the Native Land Sales Bill, it would be considered when Sir George Grey placed his amendments about placing lands under trustees upon the supplementary order paper. The next class comprised bills which were absolutely essential, including financial measures for placing the finances of the country upon a sound footing. These must be dealt with this session. They were the Property Assessment Act Amendment Bill, Beer Duty Bill, Deceased Persons 1 Estates Duties Bill, Local Public Works Bill, and Rating Act, 1876, Amendment Bill. Members, he thought, would admit that the Government had made a considerable sacrifice, anU he hoped they would now be met by a sacrifice on the part of members. He would therefore propose the motion standing in his name. Mr MACANDREW said that the want of progress alluded to was in a great measure due to the want of system on the part of the Government in the manner in which they had brought on the business, and not to any over-indulgence in talk by hon. members. The motion was then put and carried. EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC MONEY. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, . >" Mr SHRIMSKI called attention to the small amount of public money which had been spent in his district as compared with other districts of less importance. Timaru had £10,100; Invercargill, £3458; Waimatc, £3010; and Oamaru only £317 for public buildings. He had waited on the Minister for Public Works in reference to the inadequate railway station accommodation, and he promised the matter would be attended to, but this was not done. THE WAIPAHI RAILWAY. Mr IRELAND called attention to the promise made by the Hon. Mr Oliver re the extension of the Waipahi railway line. The Hon. Mr OLIVER said that if the residents of the district were still agreeable to advance the money, the Government would be prepared to make arrangement for the extension. Mr JONES also spoke of the injustice done to Oamaru. Mr HAMLIN directed attention to the injustice proposed to be done to his district. Mr PYKE said that it was a notorious fact that unless members voted with the Government they could get the Government to do nothing for their districts. He had himself been told that if he went up to Ministers' rooms his views might be met. He knew what that meant, and did not go. Mr HURSTHOUSE differed with the remarks made by the last speaker. He had voted with the Government for years, and yet he found that his district was treated in the most cavalier manner. The Hon. Mr OLIVER replied, his remarks being interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. j i

Evening Siitino. The House resumed at 7.30. LOCAL GOVERNMENT. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr MOSS moved—"That in order to enable the Legislature to make provision for the establishment of a system of local government suited to the circumstances of the Colony, and founded upon the wellascertained wishes and opinions of the people, it is expedient that a conference of delegates, to be chosen by registered electors of the several Provincial Districts, should be held prior to next session of Parliament, such conference to consist of 13 members, two of whom shall be chosen by the Provincial Districts of Auckland, Wellington, Canterbury, Otago, and one from each of the other Provincial Districts. That a respectful address be presented to the Governor, asking that he may be pleased to take the necessary steps to give effect to the foregoing resolution." He said the difficulties of their situation as regards finance arose in a great measure from mixing Up of local and general finance. At present they had a number of local institutions whose finances were disarranged, and otherwise these local institutions were wholly inadequate to the work imposed on them. Then, again, they found general discontent prevailing all round. These facts all tended to show that they were not attending properly to the business of the country. To do the work properly they would have to sit for six or eight months. Unless they were prepared to do that, then they must throw a large portion of the work on the local bodies. Mr MACANDREW waa very sorry no response had

been made by the Government. He would suggest that the motion be pressed to a division at once. Dr WALLIS said a variety of work could be better done by local bodies than it could possibly be by the central Legislature. Sir GEORGE GREY complained that through the whole session the utmost deadness and indifference had been shown fey the Government to the business before the House. REPORT OF CIVII/ SERVICE COMMISSION. The following completes our report of the debate on the report of the Civil Service Commission :— Mr SAUNDERS said he had in his capacity as a Royal Commissioner been actuated by nothing but a desire to elicitthe truth,the wholetruth.andnothingbut the truth. The Royal Commissioners thought it their duty to use their own eyes and ears in obtaining their information, and that was more serviceable to them than the evidence recorded by shorthand writers. He denied 'the assertion that the officers had had no opportunity for defending themselves. In dealing with the matter the Commission did not study individuals ; all they had to do was to discharge the duty devolving upon them. The report of Mr Blair showed that these wretched waggons had been built in the workshops under supervision by highly-paid officials, and that of itself made things worse than the report imputed to them. There was no evidence of personal statements in the report. The member for Port Chalmers was no doubt to blame for much of the irregularities complained of, for at no time was mismanagement so gross and the waste so complete aa when the railways were under the management of the member for Port Chalmers. But they were not there to investigate into his conduct, so the report dealt in generalities. After quoting from the report, he asked was it intended to convey the truth, or was it intended to mislead the House. A more intentional, deliberate, and successful misrepresentation of facts never was written than the document penned by Mr Blair — a highly-paid official. It was just as they expected— one department threw the blame on to the other. Had they known that these waggons were built under the supervision of their own oilicers instead of being built by contract, the Commission would have felt that they were dealing with a more serious offence than they did. If the member for Port Chalmers wished to bring up this matter in the interests of his friends, he could have it done at any time. In the Public Works Statement he did expect there would be some welldefined statement of how they were going to' tide over the next three years with the small balance they had to deal with. He did expect the Commissioners' report would have had more consideration in those proposals. The only way to effect proper retrenchment would be to dismiss a large nmnber of highly-paid servants, and reduce the salaries of those remaining, He saw a way for working the lines more efficiently than at present, and yet save £179,500. He saw his way to save £5000 on useless officers, £1500 in extravagance in the workshops, £25,000 in the mode of obtaining stores, L 105.000 in salaries paid 40 engineers who did more harm than good, and £52,000 in reductions at the rate of 12 per cent, on salaries. It was a gross injustice to I the poor taxpayers to attempt to keep up such an artificial state of wages as was attempted to ba done, As long as the Government kept wages at their present artificial rate, they would have to continue to import their machinery as they were doiii? at present. The Minister for Public Works appeared to think they had nothing to do but to increase the railway tariff to put things right, but he (Mr Saunders) argued that the traffic returns would fall off. The proposal was an injustice to those persons who had been inclined to go out and cultivate land they I would not have done but for the prospect of cheap traffic; and he therefore hoped the Government would look about and reduce the cost of railways instead of increasing the cost of traffic. What they had to do was to drive the drones out pf the hive, and to dismiss the 40 engineers and other unnecessary labour which was dragging them down to the very ground. If they were to take their proper position as a Colony, they must give up the idea of further borrowing, and practise economy and thrift. He mentioned that fact because he saw that the Minister, in his Statement, spoke of the time when they would be enabled once more to go into the borrowing market. In the interests of the worldng man he appealed to Government to no longer bolster up matters by reckless borrowing. Mr SHRIMSKI thought/ on Mr Saunders' own showing, that the Civil Service Commission had acted the part of private detectives. Mr GEORGE criticised the report of the Railway Commission, and denied that they had either visited the proposed route, or taken evidence in the district in . regard to the North Auckland railway. The only * evidence they took was that of the Engineer, whose evidence was directly opposed to their report. He urged that this line should be proceeded with as a small instalment of justice to the North. Captain COLBECK also urged the claim of North Auckland to railway communication. He characterised the report of the Railway Commission as 7 utterly devoid of common sense. If it was a specimen of the work of Royal Commissions, he said "Save the country from Royal Commissions." The debate was adjourned, and the House rose at 1 o'clock.

Tubsday, 10th August.the gilohrist scholarship. Mr BOWEN asked what steps the Government proposed to take to give effect to the offer made by the Gilchrist Trustees of a scholarship of £100 per annum, tenable for three years, to the candidate who posses best at the London University matriculation examination held in New Zealand. The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON was glad an opportunity had been given him to refer to this matter. Recently a communication had been received from the authorities in England that the scholarship in question had been opened for competition, and examination papers had been received, and would have to be sent Home as soon as the examination could be held. It was somewhat unfortunate that the notice should be short, but it could not be helped, and the official notice would appear in the next Gazette. The value of the scholarship was £100 per annum for three years, and it would be held upon the condition that the holder goes Home to England and attends either the University of London or Edinburgh to prosecute the study of law or medicine. He hoped that, short as the notice was, it would bring some one of the young men of the Colony to the front BILLS DISCHARGED. The following bills were discharged from the Order Paper :— Town District Fisheries Bill, Education Reserves Amendment Bill, Public Entertainments Prohibition Bill, Cemeteries Bill, Fire and Marine Insurance Companies Bill, Gaming and Lotteries Bill, Hawkers and Pedlars Bill, Peace Preservation Bill. PHARMACY BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council on the Pharmacy Bill were agreed to on a division of 44 to 25. ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr TURNBULL resumed the debate on the motion * for going into Committee of Supply. Mr LUNDON moved the adjournment of the debate. Mr MOSS, speaking to the question of adjournment, blamed the Government for attempting to supress the question of local administration, but cautioned them that the outside public would not be so easily silenced. The Government sat there day after day, doing nothing more than the work which should be done by an undersecretary, while the House was discussing large and important questions. He only desired to raiso a debate that would tend to guide public opinion. He would rather withdraw his motion than see it go to a division on a silent vote. He had brought the matter forward altogether free from party feeling, and he could only regret the very poor reception it had met with at the hands of the Government and its supporters. Mr SWANSON contended that the proposal was unavoidable. If a commission was to be appointed they ought to have been appointed out of the House. He was very glad that the motion was going to be withdrawn, despite the strong feeling he had on the question of local self-governmeut. The Hon. Mr DICK said had the Government entered into the debate they would simply have been encouraging an endless debate, out of which nothing could possibly come. It would be necessary that they should first ascertain that this was the wish of the people. After that they would have to get something definite, and not indefinite proposals put before them That that was the opinion of the House was evident from the fact that in the debate the motion was left altogether out of the question and other matter debated. Mr KEEVES said that this was one of the most im portant questions of the sossion, and that was more than the Government had attempted to propose They saw the Premier come down that day and withdraw £ number of bills upon which they Ld waited a lot of time He could compare them to nothing more than a 40-horse-power engine driving a man"le He had no wish to see a return to Provincialism w 1 !' contended that some better provision SSirS for local government than they had. In refernmJ tn t^« Public Works Statement, he denounced iffiTp^rSifc abortion-a jumble of figures, of which any fnnn* form school-boy might be ashamed an y*°»rthMr PYKE said he did not know but a drifting to Provwaausm would be better than to goonSfhey

were going. Ho saw nothing so very objectionable in the motion. He wanted to know what the Govern"miH™°M?Sal.l, »id the Oov.rnment had .»■ this House oi a business back, but was keeping the really usenu^ SBKffiKK "& public money Really needful Sets were to get nothing, and other districts were £ £et more than their fair share. There were-a ™,n?ber of most important works for which no. pro- ""*„ made i" the Public Works AmongXrS instanced the Thames-Waikato railwaY They were told that there was no money for tlnsfl works but he could tell them where money was KeOTtiAhS were at all honest in looking for.it. .There^w" «« against the loan of over £1,100,000 for Native land purchases. Now they were going to abandon these purchases, so that'the fund would be aHablefor Public Works purposes Reverting to the Sri of the member for Parne^ he said that while he did not think the motion would be darried, still he ■felt that something was needed to relieve the House of the burden thrown upon it by Abolition. Mr GIS BORNE was disappointed with the character of the Public Works Statement. He had expected to Bee a document with a broader grasp .of the subject, and one which dealt more fairly with the different O wa S y> interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

Evening Sitting. The House resumed at 7.30. „„„+-„,«„ cSe would apply the proceeds of these lines to the broke out on that coast, as there was every indication, it Touldbe ol "incalculablebenefittothe .whole Colony. He SSd therefore say, " Be prudent, be economical but at the same time , be enterprising and be liberal where liberality and enterprise are deserved. ; TheHon Mr HALL saiS that it could not be said that the West Coast hod been ™fc"£ *"»**• I the document before them showed that the sum of £110000 had been spent in the district. The debate was otherwise than he expected. When they con-, 1 sidered the expenditure to which the Colony had become accustomed, they were not astonished to find, that they had to retrench, and that the Statement would be received with disfavour. What was urged' 1 upbn them was to shut their eyes and go ahead. Ifwas> not admitted that there were breakers ahead, .but what they were counselled to do was,. "Go on, and all Z 1 come right." That was not the policy of prudent; men It was a financial crisis through which they were passing.'and he did hope that members on the' Opposition sfog of the House would assist them in, the emergency. They were told- it was not a statesmanlike' Public- Works Statement. If they, had scattered money broadcast, then it would, have' been" 'a statesmanlike production, but he, would contend that it was a thorough statesmanlike document. It dealt with the question of the SployedTThen'it dealt- with the question of how Says were to be made to pay. He contended these ' wereffiects in all respects statesmanlike They had prepared the arterial for revising the railway tariff, So soon a, they were relieved from the cores of ' parliament the/ would at once proceed to elaborate proposals. They were in that position that they mus^ not only provide for the current year, but m consequence of their inability to go into the money 'market till 1882, they had to finance up to that period. It hod been suggested that as they had a ' certain amount of money to spend they could spend it once. That was the course followed some years ago, but after it was done, they found the appetite for railway w6rks increased It was their aim to bring back the Colony totte normal state. In doing so they were exposed to unpopularity and discomfort, and if they consulted their own popularity they would abandon their seats to those who were less scrupulous. In following that' course they believed the time would come when their services in that respect would be fully recognised. Before sitting down he would refer to a remark made by the member for Cheviot. He -had described Mr Blair's letter as d^ffuL There he -differed from his hon. friend. What Mr Blair showed was that .these waggons had not been made under a contract for which he was responsible] He believed that his hon. friend hod done a great injustice to a valuable servant, and he could not agree with him hi the conclusion arrived at. Mr SAUNDERS said that the report itself simply left the blame upon the dual system, whioh there could be no doubt was responsible for the slovenlj way in which these waggons were turned out ■ Mr BARRON hoped they would not borrow any more money for payment of interest on loans, and that they would be enabled to trust to the internal resources of the Colony. He beheved'that there were many districts in which railways could be constructed > by means of setting apart large tracts of land. He mentioned the Strath-Taieri railway as a case in point. He hoped their desire, for economy would not lead them to underpay railway employes, to whoso care and. attention the lives of hundreds of people were "rhfimo'tion for going into Committee of Supply was then put and carried on the voices, no division boing called for.

COMMITTEE OP BUPPIiY. Class 10— Vote Mines, £22,550. The Hon. Mr OLIVER in the course of the discus■ion said there was ho intention on the part of the Government to redistribute portfolios, and that the 'mining interest would receive more attention than had been given it. The item was reduced £150, and the balance passed. Class 2— Vote Railways, £608,818 4s Bd. The Hon. Mr OLIVER proposed to reduce the item Vr HUTCHISON inquired if no attention was to be given to the report of the Civil Service Commission In dealing with this vote on the question of reduction. Mr SPEIGHT asked if it was meant that cleaners Bet down at 6s 6d and 6s per day were to be reduced 10 per cent. , The Hon. Mr OLIVER replied that they did not undertake to make a 10 per cent, reduction on every item— on some they might make more and others less. In reply to a question put by Mr Andrews, The Hon. Mr OLIVER said they were not at all likely to require any more engines for some years. Mr HURST said in the North they had railway workshops, and he could not see how it was that railway carriages, even although they cost a little more, should not be made in the Colony. The same thing would no doubt apply to Dunedin. It was a pity the Colony could not retain this class of labour within Mr RICHARDSON pointed out that on some sections waees were set out at per day, and others at per week or ncr year. This rendered comparison difficult. He saw a large item for stores, and would like to know whether stock had been taken lately, and where. If bo the value could have been stated. The Hon. Mr OLIVER said stock had been taken lately but he regretted he could not at that moment state the value of stock on hand. He 'still more regretted to state that within the last week the Auditor -general hod discovered' very serious deficiencies in the stores account, one amounting to nearly £100.000 since the initiation of the Public Works policy. He might odd that no charge of misappropriation was made against any particular officer. The matter was being inquired into. Mr SHRIMSKI could not understand how such a discrepancy could have occurred if there was an annual stock-taking and balance. Mr STEVENS thought full inquiry should be made into the matter and the result made known to the House before it rose. Tho Hon. Mr OLIVER said that the matter had been brought under notice by the Auditor-general, and he was waiting further information. These deficiencies had accumulated from 1871. Replying to Mr Hurst, The Hon. Mr OLIVER stated that the inspection of material sent out from London had not, as had been Btated, proved to any very great extent defective. The item as proposed to be reduced was paseed,

Architect's Office, £1485. Mr BARRON moved that it be reduced £485. The item, as printed, was passed. Government Domains, £1191 45. The vote was carried on a division of 34 to 14. The item, Public Buildings £20,688, was agreed to. The item, laspection of Machinery £1900, was agreed to. ADJOURNMENT. Progress was reported, and the House adjourned at 1.5 a.m. Wednesday, 11th August, counties act amendment bilii. The House met at 11 o'clock, and went into Committee on the Counties Act Amendment Bill. Mr BUTTON said the measure was paltry, and was trifling with important subjects on which comprehensive legislation was required. He moved that the Chairman leave the chair. The PREMIER said no doubt the whole subject of local government would have to be considered at some future time ; but the present bill was required to amend patent defects. ' The motion was negatived, and the bill reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. HIGH SCHOOLS RESERVE BIIiL. The MINISTER OP JUSTICE moved the second reading of the High Schools Reserve Bill. He stated that it was based on the recommendation of the Royal Commission on Higher Education. The proposal to withdraw the bill involved the question of the stoppage of secondary education in many districts ' ' The House divided on the bill with this result :— Ayes, 40; noes, 38. The bill was then read a second time. SECOND READINGS. The following bills were then read a Becond time without debate:— Dogs Registration, Brands and Branding. The PREMIER moved the second reaiing of the, Fencing Bill. ' ' Mr SWANSON moved as an amendment that the, bill be read that day six months. The House divided— Ayes, 34 ; noes, 16. The bill Was therefore read a second time. THE RAILWAY COMMISSION. * ! MrPYKE moved— " That this House is of opinion' that the report of the Royal' Commission on Railways,) in so far as it deals with lines which have never beenj submitted to or sanctioned by the House, w&sunneces-i sary and uncalled for ; that in so far as it condemns! railway lines the construction of which has, after due consideration and careful inquiry, been sanctioned byi this House, the' said report has not sufficient founda-j ,tion, and should be regarded as a mere expression ofj individual opinion hastily formed, without any special! knowledge or experience on the subject; that itj would, therefore, toe unwise, and highly detrimental to: the best interests of the Colony, for the Government; to shape its Public Works policy upon the opinions and recommendations embodied in the said report. , He said he, was not disposed to allow it go forth that this Housei even in part, approved of the report. ' Tho Government had partially disavowed their intention of being guided by the report, but he 'noted that they had based their proposals upon it. The report itself was unreliable, unworthy, of. consideration, and ought to be relegated to the waste-paper basket. It was, not the case that they had only dealt with projected lines already .dealt with by the House. He denied that they had made careful inquiries into the circum-, stances of different projected works. Referring to his own district, he said that he knew of his own knowledge that no attempt, had been made to, secure suchinformation. ' He also charged them with having^up-i pressed evidence taken in Dunedin. The Strath-j Taieri line would serve two-thirds of the population,; and' open up thousands of acres of Crown land.; Despite its importance they made ,a very cursory, examination of the district, so much' so that they never saw the exact locality through which the line was proposed to go. He could hardly imagine the Government would have had the audacity to apj point a Commission to interfere with a work that had been already fully inquired into,by both Houses, and by both 'been authorised. The report was contradicted by evidence, in supp6rt of which he quoted from the evidence taken by themselves. He concluded by moving the resolution standing in his name. | Mr SHRIMSKI deprecated the statement made by the previous speaker, that the Livingstone line would not be an acceptable one. It would pass through a country " abounding , in mineral and agricultural wealth, although for the purposes of the former, industry a difficulty existed in connection with water rights. The Strath : Taierl line had been put forward to ,some extent as a rival to the Livingstone line, and while not wishing to dis r parage the former he pointed out that the evidence given against it was the evidence of a person interested more directly in promoting the Strath-Taieri line. He defended Mr Reid from all imputations of having influenced the report from personal motives. i Mr LEVIN objected to the finding of the Commission in reference to the Wellington-Foxton line! He traced the progress of the Commission from the time it left Wellington by way of Masterton to Foxton; and back again by the West Coast route, contending that although the journey was a hasty one the weight of evidence collected was in favour of tho West Coast Mr FULTON also protested against tho conclusions arrived at by the Commission in regard to the Otago Central railway. Those .conclusions were not the result of fair examination of the districts interested. What they asked was that reasonable provision should be made for carrying on that line. He compared the line with that by way of Livingstone, arguing that the advantages from an engineering point of view were largely in favour of the Central line. What he _ asked was that so soon as money was available this line should be gone on with. Mr STEWART said the members of the Railway Commission were men of intelligence and high standing. Still, he thought they had not considered all the circumstances carefully when they condemned the Central Otago line. It would be a means for settling a large population on tracts of country at present inaccessible, and in that way it would not only be a benefit to Otago, but the Colony at large. The great objection Btated by the Commissioners to this line was that it had been surveyed over a difficult country. That ought not to have deterred them from reporting favourably on the line, as other more practicable routes could be found. He hoped the Government would not' allow its better judgment to be influenced by the report. The Dunedin Chamber of Commerce was almost unanimous in favour of the line, and other influential individuals were equally favourably impressed with the importance of the work. Dr WALLIS thought the report an admirable one, straightforward and honest. It was utterly and entirely free from party spirit, and he thought the least thing they # could do was to express their thanks ! to the Commissioners.

The Hon. Mr OLIVER spoke of the able and efficient manner in which the Railway Commissioners devoted themselves to their work. Had they taken a step of this kind years aso, had all the railways promoted been examined with intelligence, and caro Destowed upon them by this Commission, a very different state of matters would have existed. He was not able to say that the Government were prepared to adopt all the proposals made, yet they nevertheless acknowledged that information of the utmost importance for future operations had been gained. He hoped the motion would not be adopted by the House. They would have to use the services of independent gentlemen in matters of this kind in future as they had done in the past, and if such a resolution was passed they never could expect to secure the services of men of honour and independence. They were not in a position to push on the Otago Central railway. It involved an expenditure of one million of money, and they were not in a position to face such an engagement. He was to some extent interested in the work ; still, he saw the utter impossibility of going on with it just now. It would be most unfair to condemn the report on the terms proposed. He denied that he was the owner of any land that would be benefited by the Oamaru-Nasoby line. He did not agree with the recommendation of the Commissioners that any further survey of that line should be made. It had already been surveyed and examined, and the result showed it to be utterly impracticable. The grades would bo altogether too great, and a tunnel upwards of a mile in length would be required. That line was not to be thought of. He expected that the report ' was a fair and nonest and impartial one, although he did not agree with it in every particular. Mr WHITAKER endorsed the_ opinion that the report was thoroughly honest and impartial. Mr REEVES supported Mr Pyke's motion, and condemned the composition and report of the Railway Commissioners. He argued that the Colony could not stand still. It must go on or go backward, and it f,hould go on with reproductive works. Mr WRIGHT moved the adjournment of the debate, as he desired time to prepare a reply to the accusations mode against the Commissioners. Mr HURST endorsed the opinion of Mr Whitaker that the time had now arrived when a stop should be put to further construction of railways out of borrowed money. The plague spot of the Colony was that the original idea of having a Board of Public Works— a board composed of honest and upright men, who would, say what works wero to

be undertaken after careful inquiry into their reproductive prospects— had not been carried out. He quoted Major HARRIS said the Commission had given a fair account of his district/ « • ' LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, 11th August. second readings. The Crown Grants Act Amendment Bill, Diseased Cattle Bill, Proclamation Validation Bill, Otago Rivers Bill, Sydenham Borough Council Empowering Bill, and Christchurch District Drainage Act Amendment Bill were read a second time. PAYMENTS TO SIR JULIUS VOGEL. The Hon. Mr WILSON moved for a return of all moneys paid in every way to Sir Julius Vogel since The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS opposed the motion. The Hon. Colonel WHITAIORE said he believed it would be very useful and instructive when Sir Julius Vogel was making claim for £20,000 or so to find that he had received £40,000 or £50,000 in the last 10 y The Hon. Colonel BRETT thouirht the motion an . indelicate one concerning so distinguished a man, who ought not to be spotted out in this way more than , others. It would be humiliating to the Council to have such a motion, and he must express his indigna-' tion at it. _ The Hon. Mr ROBINSON thought tho Councilshould know what everybody received, so that if they ■were to wind up everybody should get his due. Per-, haps they might even find Sir Julius Vogel hod not received as much as he ought, and they would then be, able to do him justice. The motion was carried. AMENDMENTS AGREED TO. The amendments of the Lower House in the DistrictCourts Bill and Land Transfer Act Bill wore agreed to. (FROM OUB OWN CORRESPONDENT.) WBIiMNGTON, AUgUSt 11th. The Government have issued a second circular, 1 which notifies everybody receiving Government money, that the 10 per cent, reduction means that a reduction shall be made, not only on ordinary salaries, pay,, or' wages coming out of the Public Treasury, but shall also apply to all salaries coming under permanentActs of the Legislature, as well as to all pensions and, superannuation allowances. , The great desire of everybody seems now to be to, finish the session as speedily as possible, but there will! be still much fighting over several bills, both Native, and financial. Ido not in the least anticipate the session closing earlier than tho middle of next month, j