Political.

Otago Witness, Issue 1417, 18 January 1879, Page 6

Political.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL AT THE QUEEN'S THEATRE.

The Attorney-General (the Hon. Robert Stout) addressed his constituents at the Queen's Theatre last night. The theatre was filled in all parts, there being about 1000 persons present— a proportion of whom were ladies. On the platform Were Professor Macgregor, Messrs R. Rutherford, James James, W. D. Sutherland, J. P. Armstrong, B. Issac, A. Burt, Robin, Leary, Fergus, and J. 0. The Mayor, who occupied the chair, in introducing the hon. and learned gentleman, Baid : Ladies and gentlemen, we are met here this evening at the invitation of the Hon. Mr Stout— one of our representatives. It is quite unnecessary for me to introduce the hon. gentleman to you, because he is so well known to you. lam quite satisfied that with a Dunedin audience it id quite unnecessary to request that the speaker should receive a fair attention, because I know you will give it to him. Of course, after Mr Stout has finished his speech, youwiU be at liberty to ask him any questions. It is quite within the bounds of possibility that Mr Stout, in addressing you this evening, will impart to you nonie Ministerial information that you will bu dwirous of hearing. Ladies and gentlemen, the Hon. Mr Stout will now address The Hon. Mr Stout (the Attorney-General), on rising, said : Mr Mayor, Ladies and Gentlemen,—Before I begin my speech this evening I have to apologise for the absence of my colleague, Mr Macandrew, who, as you are aware, has been all over the North Island inquiring into its requirements in the matter of railways. He ha* performed a great deal of the journey overland, and has knocked himself up, so that he is not able to be present to-njght. I had a telegram to-day saying that he is .recovering slowly, but is still confined to his room. Ladies and gentlemen, in appearing before you tonight, I feel that I labour under some disadvantage, bt cause I require to deal with so many thing*, and my time and your time is limited. Since I last addressed you, I have, I may pay, in company with my colleagues, been subjected to a kind of abuse that I suprwe public men must Bubmit to. Gentlemen, decline to deal with that abuse. I do not ©xpect the sympathy of all, but I would not be here tonight if I did not believe that I have the sympathy and good feeling of ' the majority of my constituents, and even of my fel low colonists outside Dunedin.— (Applause.) Gentlemen, you have known my political history since it began, and I leave it for you to say whether it is right to subject me to the abuse I have been subjected to ; and with these remarks I leave the matter with you, and decline to deal with it in any way whatever.— (Cheers.) ATTACKS ON THE MINISTRY. Gentlemen, the Minibtry has been assailed outside of Otago in a very peculiar manner. In the House, and since the House was prorogued, we have beard that this Government was an Otago Government, and that the sole object of the members of the Ministry seems to be to exalt Otago above other portions of the Colony. Gentlemen, it is very difficult to deal with such changes as these, but I think the best answer to the charge is, that there are some people in Otacjo who do not approve of this Government. —(Applause.) I shall also leave that charge without further comment, and I will now go on to deal with some things that have been made the Bubject of Bpecifio charges ; and I can only say this, that if there is a single thing I omit to explain— l do not care upon what political subject it may be - if there js a Bingle thing regarding which any one of the audience desires explanation, they have only to ask me at the conclusion of nay Bpeech.— (Applause.) Gentlemen, as a politician, I like to meet my accusers face to face, and this is not the first time I have challenged those who have aught to Bay against me to meet me on the platform, and let im have it out in presence of the public. If I were to reply to all the carping, and, I may say, vulgar criticisms, that have appeared in some of the journals, I should have no time left to deal with public or private business. THE TAPANDI BAILWAY. I shall, however, deal with some of the specific charges, and shall first refer to what has been designated " The Tapanui Job." Gentlemen, I understand the ordinary meaning of the word "job" is something done 'for the private interest or emolument of those con cerned in it, and I should like those who characterise the construction of the Tapanui railway as a job, to point out in what respect any member of the Ministry has any private interest in the Tapanui district. Gentlemen, let me describe how this railway came to be constructed. This line was thought over, and fought O7er, in the Otago Provincial Council in 1874, and the Council, I think almost unanimously, affirmed that it was a proper line to be constructed, and that the surveys should at once be proceeded with. You are aware the Provincial Government was sometimes short of funds, and it was nnable to carry out all the railways that the Provincial Council authorised. In 1875 the matter came up again, and in Parliament in 1876, and 1877 the Tapanui railway was discussed in the House. In 1877, however, the House passed, after consideration, a resolution affirming the desirability that the line should be constructed, and asking the Governor to set aside blocks of land to pay for its construction. This resolution was carried, and in addition to that, the GDvernor sent a message down to the House stating that he would obey its request. That was the position In which the Tapanui railway stood. The next question was, how was it to be constructed ? It was pointed out that the way in which railways had been constructed had been a very false and injurious one. I will tell you what that system was. A railway was laid down on the map, voted by the Parliament, and the land sold on each side of it, without reserves being made by the Government ; and the result was that the railroad came to run through private property, and increased its value to an enormous extent, but the Colobv reaped no advantage from it. We believed the railway system should be such that the lines, if possible, should be constructed in a different way— viz., that we should, if we could, select land likely to be benefited by the railway, and either during the time the railway was being constructed, or when it had been constructed, sell the land, bo that the Colony, and not private speculators, should reap the benefit from it. If that system had been carried out in the past we would not have been so necessitous in money matters, and we would not, I believe, have required to ask London for such large loans j but, on the contrary, if the judicious system I have mentioned had been laid down in 1870, many of our railways would have paid for themselves by the increased price received for the land. Gentlemen, I say that is the proper system for the construction of our railways, and the Government consider it is. True, the Government have not land immediately alongBide the Tapanui railway, but they have large tracts of land adjoining, and seeing that; the House bftd recommended the con-

struction of the line, they thought that here was an opportunity for testing that plan, and bat, therefore, they would go on with the work as the Houoe had authorised < it,|and the Ministers had promised the House in 1877 that this line should be surveyed. The line wa* surveyed, and the surveyor was left carte blanche as to the route the railway should take. After the survey the people of Tapanui township thought the railway should go to them; I and I may say from what I have found throughout the Colony, that when I find a man very anxious the railway should go in a certain road, I always feel inclined to ask him where his section is. Personal interest has a wonderful bias. After this a certain memorial came to the Government asking that the railway should go a little nearer the mountain, and into the township. We did what any Government would be bound to do with such a memorial — we sent it down to our engineer, and we asked him to go himself with some of the memorialists, and say which he would advise the Government to select as i the route. He did so, and on his return he advised the Government that to take the line to the Tapanui township would be taking it out of the way from where settlement was ; that it would make the line a mile and a ha]f longer, and give it a more difficult gradient. He advised us, as Tapanui was not the terminus of the line, that it we were to consider theinterests of the district we must construct it a, mile from the township. Gentlemen, that is the whole history of the route, and I ask anyone in this audience, if we had chosen to construct the line on a worse gradient, further removed from the settlement, and about a mile and a-half longer, should we not have been open to the charge of making a political railway ?— (Applause. ) After the line was surveyed, we were asked to call for tenders. No money had been voted by Parliament for the construction of the line. The line had been sanctioned by the Lower House, but there had been no bill passed voting specific money for its construction, and we therefore had to call for tenders on these terms— that the contractor was not to get one cent, until the whole work was done. Geutlemen, I believe if some of the main lines had been constructed on these terms, we would have had them finished far sooner. Well, gentlemen, these tenders were called for : and here I may say that I am surprised any respectable journal should reiterate what has been said, that we accepted a tender before the time was out. Any one can look at the New Zealand Gazette, and see that is absolutely untrue. The tenders were advertised for a month, and I say there were more competitors for this line than there have been for many other lines, both larger and smaller than the Tapanui contract, and yet it is said there were few tenderers owing to the conditions on which the contract was let. You will see from the Gazette that for almost all the other lines there have been fewer tenderers than there were for this line. The tenders for the construction of the line were as follows : Topham and Angus, Invercargill, L 67.95 1; Allan and Stumbles, Titnaru, L 68.71 1; Howat and Co., Tapacui, L 72,800 j M'Kenzie and Co., Dunedin, L 74,000; and Proudfoot and M'Kay, L 61,500. Gentlemen, the very proper rule has been laid down by the Public Works Department— and it is one I should be very sorry to see departed from — that the Government should accept the lowest tender, and the Government accepted the lowest tender. I would like to ask anyone present, would the Government have been justified in accepting the second or the next lowest tender ? and I may say the accepted tender was L2OOO less than the engineer's estimate. What was the charge made against this line in the House ? The only charge was that we ought to have waited, and not to have accepted the tender without the sanction of Parliament, and that to do bo was a slight on our Colonial House of Lords. Well, gentlemen, I stated in the House, as you will see from Hansard, and I state so now, that the Government has to do many things without the complete sanction of Parliament ; and 1 appealed to what the Government had done in the past. I did not need to go outside our own Colony and refer to what was done by other governments, but appealed to the fact of the San Francisco mail contract, the Brogden contract, and dozens of others that had all been accepted by the Government, and then submitted to the House for confirmation ; and I ask you do you think, with the opposition we had, the House would after discussion have come to the decision it did, aud have ratified the contract if there was any job in it? Gentlemen, that is the history of the " Tapanui job." 02AG0 UNIVERSITY BILL. Now I will pass to something else. I come to deal with a matter that has caused some little discussion and some bitter and angry feeling — that is, the matter of the introduction of the University of Otago Bill. Gentlemen, I shall explain the thing, I think, to you very clearly, and I shall tell you that after all the discussion, and after all the abuse I have been subjected to on account of it, if I am spared next year I shall introduce the same bill again.— (Applause.) Let me explain to you what the position of this bill was. You are aware that at the foundation of this Province — I suppose I may be permitted to use the term, though it is now a provincial district — there were certain lands that were granted to the Presbyterian Church, and a third of these lands were to be for educational purposes. No doubt the Presbyterian Church had it in its power to apply the third of these lands to any educational purpose it chose. I could tell you how some reserves in other parts of the Colony, given to churches for schools, were sold, and churches built with the money. I could tell you of the malversation of reserves in other parts of the Colony ; but I say, to the credit of the Presbyterian Church, they managed their reserves well, and they determined that this third Bhould be set apart for the endowment of some literary chair or chairs in the University of Otago. At the time the money was set apart there was no university in Dunedin. Now in the Act which granted the money for the endowment of a literary chair or chairs in the University, it was provided that the appointment and removal of the professors should be in the hands ot the trustees, with the concurrence of the Synod. So you will see that the Presbyterian Church could not give any money to the University unless they had the power of appointing and removing the professors from the University, as thoae were the conditions under which the trust was held. Now I will tell you the position the University was in. The University had an ordinance passed giving certain powers to the University Council, and the University could not receive this endowment on Huch terms, because the University Ordinance said this :—: — "That the Council shall have full power to appoint and dismiss all professors, officers, and servants of the University, and shall have the entire management and superintendence over the affairs, concerns, and property thereof, subject to the statute and regulations of the said University. Provided always that if any chair shall be endowed by any public body the right of nominating a profesßor to such chair shall ba vested in such body." So that the University had to take up this position. It had to say to the Presbyterian. Church, Gentlemen, we can accopfc your

money and you can nominate a professor, but you can neither appoint nor dismiss one." Therefore the Church could not give its money, except with the power of appointment and dismissal of the professors, and the University Council could not take the money except it had the sole power of management ; so that the grant was utterly useless unless the law was altered. Now, gentlemen, I thought it was only fair that th* University should have the power that the University Ordinance gave it ; and that the Church— l do not care what Church it may be— should have no power of interfering with the appointment and dismissal of the professor?, that they should leave that solely to the University Council, and that the Church should not interfere with a secular institution. Gentlemen, that is the position of the matter. But I did something else. I found the Synod had been for two years wrangling over the questions, and everyone, I thought, will say that the peacamakera are blessed, and if we could have taken this apple of discord away from the Synod, I thought they would get on with their business very much better. And to show you that this was desired I will read to you a motion, which was moved by one of the most conservative members of the Synod, and seconded by one of its ablest members. This resolution was moved by the Rev. Mr Banuerman, and seconded by the Rev. Professor Salmond— " That this Synod make no appointment, but appoint a committee to prepare a bill for submission to the next session of Parliament, with the view of divesting itself of the power committed to it by the Obago Presbyterian Church Landa Act, 18G6, of appointing and supporting professors in the University of Otago, and entrusting the appointment of professors, and funds from which their salaries are drawn, to the Council of the said University." And, gentlemen, I am blamed because I simply asked that the appointments should be given to the University Council, and the funds still remain with the Church, while actually the Rev. Mr Bannerxnan and others in the Synod wanted the funds to go also. lam abused because I did not go the full length of a gentleman who you will all admit is a true-blue Presbyterian. All that was said to me was, " You did not consult the Church." Gentlemen, as a politician I have nothing to do with consulting the Church. I have to do what is fair to the community, so long as I do not interfere with what is fair to the Church. If I had endeavoured to deprive the Church of its funds, I should have been culpable ; but I simply asked that the funds should be properly managed in accordance with their own act. And I did consult some of the members of the Church— some who have done as much for it, and have its interests as much at heart, as any of those who opposed the bill. I went to the Hon. Mr Reynolds and Mr Paterson, two of the Church trustees, and asked if they would approve of my bill, and they said, " Why, it is the very bill the trustees wanted all along." I also asked other Otago members, and I did not find one opponent until a certain petition came up from the Presbytery, and then some people thought it would not do to go against the Church. Gentlemen, that is the history of the Otago University Bill. Now, I could refer, if I had time, to a dozen other subjects regarding which I have been accused, but they are all of a character, and I have selected the two that have caused the most feeling. THE SAVINGS BANK BILL. There was one bill regarding which some members 'of the House thought I was doing wrong— the Savings Bank Bill. I will mention one incident in connection with this bill. The Savings Bank Bill was passed after a great fight. The bill proposed that where there was any money made by a savings bank, this money, after it had accumulated for years, should be handed over to the Benevolent Institution, and I think that is a very good direction for surplus bank funds to go. — (Applause.) I wish we had the power to authorise that th* vast sums accumulated in various banks from depositors who are dead should be handed over to such institutions. Well, after a great fight we carried the bill, but it was only to apply to Otago. As you are aware, the Hon. Mr Reynolds is a member of the Upper House, and as such is entitled to sit in the gallery and listen to the debates in the House of Representatives. He was sitting in the gallery when the divi&ion came on for this bill, so anxious was he to get this bill through, and when the question was put everyone was amazed to hear a tremendous " aye " from the Lords' gallery. I mention this to show the interest that has been taken in this matter by the Hon. Mr Reynolds. SOCIAL LEGISLATION. I will now leave these local matters and come to deal with matters affecting the whole Colony, Ladies and gentlemen, we have been told that this has been a, barren session ; and when newspaper writers or speakers could not find anything else to say against the Government they would say, " Ifc has been a barren, session," with a wonderful shake of the head, as if there was a great deal of wisdom there. — (Laughter.) — Gentlemen, it was a very barren session to the Opposition — nothing came of their opposition, but that is the only barrenness I see in it— (applause)— and I will prove that. I a9k you how ia the work of the session to be judged ? I will look at it through two aspects — I will look at it as social legislation, and then as legislation that may be termed political. Well, gentlemen, what about social legislation 1 _ Before I deal with the work of the session in that light, I may say that I place social legislation in just as high a position as political legislation ; for I do not believe that any country will ever become great or prosperous, or be able to provide for the happiness of itd people, if it neglects social affairs and confines its attention merely to the material advancement of the people within its boundary. Now what social legislation have we done during the session ? I tell you that we have passed bills that some people I am afraid would be inclined to say were revolutionary — in fact we were told they are revolutionary measures. We have passed bills which, I believe, will confer great benefits on us socially a3 a people. I can only select a few of these to show the different character of the bills passed by Parliament ; and speaking of the bills passed by Parliament, I am not taking credit to myself or to the Government. lam simply showing now what Parliament did during the session, leaving you to judge whether it was a barren session or not. First of all we passed a bill that has not been passed in the other Colonies. A bill somewhat similar has been parsed in South Australia, but I am j not aware that either Victoria or Queensland has passed thw bill. I allude to the Trades Union Bill. What is the effect of this bill ? Until that bill became law, every combination of workmen to get an increase ©f wages was an illegal combination in the eye of the law. We have put an end to that, and say it is legal, and we also have allowed trades unions to be registered, so that the great disgrace witnessed in England some time ago Bhould not be witnessed here— treasurers of trades unions using the money of the societies and laughing at the members, who were without any legal remedy. We have passed a Trades Union Bill, and recognised tlio right of workers

to see if they oannot increase their wages and unite for mutual protection.— (Cheers.) Then we have also passed an amended friendly Societies Bill to remedy many defects in existing measures, and to allow what was a very necessary and proper thing— that Friendly societies in this Colony should in their rules acknowledge and take notice of organisations without the Colony, and also to provide for more speedy and more beneficial registration. Then, gentlemen, passing to another social bill we passed — we passed an alteration in the Juries Bill, that provides that if a special jury is granted in criminal cases, the person accused should not know the names of his jurors till he comes into Court. — (Cheers.) The former Avay in which the jury was selected was this — 48 names were drawn out of a box, and 12 were struck off by the Crown Prosecutor and 12 by the counsel for the accused. Now, however, the 36 names would be put in the box and drawn in Court. Other amendments were also made, some of them being of a technical character, which I need not mention to you. Then we had an important licensing bill, which I see no person has yet noticed. It has reference to the natives. Perhaps you are aware that officers in the various out-districts state that the natives are being killed off by drink. We have thought it proper to provide a remedy, and it is this : — The Governor can proclaim any district a district within which no drink shall be sold — (hear, hear) — and it is also provided in the bill that natives may elect committees, and that these committees may determine whether any liquor shall be brought within a certain area or not. — (A Voice : " A local option bill.") Yes, a local option bill. Thus we had a mass of bills, and I say that for this session we may challenge comparison with any session during the last ten years in reference to law amendments. The Law Amendment Bills attempt to bring our complicated le^al system within the knowledge of every man, and to lay the founda« tion for important legal reform. The Law Amendment Act ha 3 not come into beneficial operation because the rule 3 are not prepared, but it will introduce the amendments contained in the Legal Judicature Bill of England, and provides that cases shall not be tied up by writs of error, &c, its object being to provide that when a person goes into Court he shall have a moie speedy remedy than formerly. We have passed a Repeals Bill, which will enable any person more readily to know what the law really is, and we have also passed a bill for the reprinting of the statutes applicable to the Colony, so that the people may know what the statutes in force in this Colony are. Then we have passed an Interpretation , Bill to simplify the Acts. When I mention these, I think you will see that so far as regards law reform the seesion cannot be said to have been a barren one. We have passed an Administration Act. I will tell you what the effect of the three provisions of this statute is. You are aware that till the middle of 1875, when what was called " The Real Estate Descent Act " was brought into operation, if a man died leaving property, it went to his eldest son, and the other children might be left to starve. There was then an Act passed which got rid of that in the case of a man being married, but which left the law of primogeniture in force ; so that there was one law if a man died leaving money, and another law if he died leaving land. The Act of last session is not yet in force, it is waiting for the assent of the Crown ; but if this Act comes into force, a man's land would go like his money, and be equally divided amongst his children. — (Cheers.) But we have passed in the same bill two other most important provisions. One of them is this : — Supposing a man dies leaving land and a large amount of debts, before the debts could be paid, such was the sacredness of the old English idea of the land, that before you got LSO paid from the land, LSOO expenses would be incurred. The Act passed last session provides that if a man dies leaving land, it can be sold and applied to the payment of his just debts. Another thing we thought required speedy reformation, and it was this— suppose a man or woman had the misfortune to be illegitimate, and he or she died without leaving a will, where do you think his property would go ?— (A Voice :To the parish.) No. It does not to go to the parish, it goes to the Government. I will tell you an incident, of course nut mentioning names, that actually happened in this Colouy. The man was illegitimate, though his father and mother married soon afterwards, and had two or three other children. The father died without a will, and his property, land, and money had to be divided amongst his legitimate children, and the eldest son got nothing. The family — three girld, to their great credit, said " our brother shall have the same share as ourselves, and they divided it, giving their brother an equal portion. But he, too, unfortunately died without making a will, and where do you think his land went — that which he got from his sisters ? Why to the Government. I say it was time such an iniquitous law as that was repealed, and we provided in the Administration Act that if a man who was illegitimate died, and had no children, and a man not married, his property shall go to his mother, or if she is not living, to her next of kin. Gentlemen, I could go on, if I chose, perhaps for half-an-hour more painting out to you that this session can certainly not be considered a barren session in reference to social legislation. But I think I have given sufficient examples to you to meet this charge, that the session was a barren one. And now I pass to some of our political measures. Gentlemen, we passed some political measures that in other countries and in other colonies have not been got through in one aession, THE LAND TAX BILL. We passed the Land Tax Bill. It took, I think, two or three sessions of Parliament in Victoria before they got that bill passed ; and, if you look at the history of legislation in other countries, you will fiud that it takes a considerable time more than two or three months to get a bill so radical and so sweeping in its provisions as this bill is, made the law of the land. I remember that after my last meeting last year I was accused of misrepresenting what were the views and the theories regarding taxation that the members of the Opposition held. Let me tell you what were the theories that the Government held, and I will then tell you what the land tax programme of the Opposition was. Now, in reference to the Laud Tax A.ct, we started with this assumption, that land is different from all other kinds of property, and I say so still. — (Hear, hear ) Let me point out to you how different it is. I will take an example that I am sure there is not one in this theatre who has not seen. Take a man who has perhaps a quarter-acre section in Dunedin. He bought it in the good old times, when it was worth perhaps Ll2 10d per acre ; and assume that he did nothing to it— neverput a house on it, never put a fence round it, in fact did nothing to it whatever in the way of improving it. Within a few years this quarter acre section becomes worth — why, he would not sell it for LIOOO, perhaps L3OOO. Now what made this land bo valuable ? Was it he himself ? Certainly not. It was made so by the improvements to land made by other members of the community. — (Cheers.) That is i what writers have termed the unearned inj crease. It is so plain that anyone in the Colony oau see it. Now I say that ft

man ought not to be allowed to reap all the advantages of this unearned increase.— (Cheers. ) Some of it ought to belong to the community—(loud cheers)— and that is the reason why I advocated, and still believe, that the State ought never to part from the fee-simple of its lands. Mr Mill has advocated that this unearned increment should pay something towards the reserve, and I hold so too. That, indeed, is one of the reasons why we put on the land tax. I will give you an example to show that personal property is quite distinct from landed property. Say a man has LIOOO in money ; say he lent it on mortgage, at 15 per cent, on land — though sometimes you can get 17h per cent, and even2oper cent, ; say he had thisLlOOO and he got Ll5O per year from his investment on mortgage at the 15 per cent, interest. Well, as the Colony progressed, what happened? His interest went down, and the same man can only get about LBO per year, whilst the man who has invested his money in land makes money without effort — he does nothing but sit down and twiddle bis fingers. All civilised countries have admitted that land is quite distinct from other kinds of property. I need not point out to you how that nobl* bill was passed in the British Parliament, securing to the Irish tenants some of their rights. Even in Prussia, a country that cannot be considered a radical country, the Government, so far back as 1828, actually forced the large landowners to break up their estates in order to provide for the small settlers of the country. All this' goes to show that it is # recognised that land is quite a different kind of property from personal property, and therefore subject to taxation. Then we also find that they were getting enormous subsidies that others were not getting from the Consolidated Fund. I believe you have no conception of the amounts that the Consolidated Fund was paying in aid of the landowners. In Hansard you will see a table that I, assisted by other members, had prepared, showing what the landowners were getting from this fund. [The hon. gentleman here went into a few figures regarding the Customs revenue.] It is true that land waß called upon to bear a fair share of the burthens. Now, gentlemen, I will tell you how we proceeded to put on this land tax. We said it was our duty to encourage the improvement of land in every way possible. It is the improvement of land that makes trade, and that is beneficial to the population. We said we would put Jd per LI on the value of the land to sell, excluding all permanent improvements. Those who had improvements should not pay in addition. I will give you an example. Two men — say, A and B — have au acre of land each. One man lets his lie idle ; he does not till it, but says, "I am waiting till it increases in value." The other man alongside of him has spent all his earnings in improving his land ; he has fenced it, he has cultivated it, he has built a house on it. ! Well, what did the Opposition propose ? They proposed that the tax on these should be alike. We said that these improvements ought to escape taxation, and these two men Bhould pay taxation alike. But the Opposition pitched into us, and if you read Hansard you will see how we were abused in the House, in the Legislative Council, and out of the House. And I warn you that if you are not careful you will have a tax put on that will tax all your improvements.— (A Voice: Not here.)— It is very probable, any way. It was only by a bare majority that we were able to carry our taxi Then, again, we said this taxation ought to reach those who are able to pay. We say if a man has only a small amount of land he is not so able to pay as a man who has a large amount of land, and that if he has a large amount of land he is practically paying a large amount of taxation to the revenue ; and therefore we thought that the principle that had been adopted in England with reference to the income tax — that a man should not pay any tax ( on his income if it did not reach so much — should be applied to the land tax here, so that a man who had LSOO in land should not pay any tax at all.— (Hear, hear.) That created a great deal of opposition. It was a fair however. — (Applause.) Then, gentlemen, before I come to deal further in reference to the taxation, I will now tell you— and I challenge anyone to dispute it— what was the kind of taxation that the Opposition proposed ? They were continually proclaiming that lands should not be specially taxed. They wished to have the support of large landowners in the House, and these generally did support them. And they said — you must tax all property alike. That was their cry. I will just tell you what taxing all property alike means. What was advocated in the Council— (A Voice : " Realised property")— yes, I will tell you what realised property means. We will take a man who is a farmer. All hi 3 improvements would be taxed — that is realised property. Then he has sheep, they would be taxed — that is realised property. Their wool gets into a store, and a tax has to be paid on it. It is then sent to the Mpsgiel Factory, say, where the tax collector comes round, and the owner is asked to fill in a schedule showing his realised property — his tweeds are thus realised property. Next year these tweeds get into the tailor's shop, and he would have to pay a tax on them before they were made into coats, and when they were made into coats or anything else, as the case might be, he would have to pay a tax on those articles. That is what is meant by realised property. A tax on realised property would be most calamitous to this country. — (Cheers.) — It would tax the goods in every man's store. It would press all trades and industries. liyou went into a factory the machinery woulcPbe taxed, or if it was a wood factory the wood would be taxed. It would, in short, be the crushing of all industry. Well, I now come to deal with another phase of this realised property tax. It was said that what we wanted to get taxed in this Colony were the mortgagees — we ought to reach thorn. I pointed out that if you taxed mortgagees the result would be that they would clap it on in interest on the mortgagor. — (Hear, hear.) And you would not have the influx of capital that you have had in the past in the Colony. You are now beginning to see what the withdrawal of capital from the Colony means. It would be most suicidal for this Colony, therefore, to put a special tax on mortgagees It would be amusing to you if I read from Hansard— or if any of you have nothing else to do some wet day, you could do it yourselves— (laughter)— the manner in which some members have spoken on this subject. They said, " You must tax the mortgagees.— you must tax the mortgagees." _ That was'' the popular cry. We said, " We will put a tax on companies that are making money." They said, "Oh, you must not tax companies. If you do, they won't send any of their capital to the Colony." Now, with reference to this Land Tax JBill, I appeal to the verdict not only of the people of this Colony, but of impartial people out of the Colony. True, here and there the Hon. the Treasurer has been sneered at as knowing nothing of figures ; but he has been complimented by such paper.* as the Sydney Morning Herald and others of similar influence both in this Colony and others. Yes, even English papers have said that he was the most real and statesmanlike Treasurer we had seen for years.— (Choors.)— We don't .believe in tax

ing luxuries.— (Hear, hear.)— We think that a very bad policy. We think that people ought to be allowed to live as cheaply as possible. Kegarding our Customs tariff we find that there must be Customs duties. But we thought it was our duty to encoui age and foster local industries, and have chosen to allow some raw articles free for that purpose. That is a good and sound policy, and one that I believe the Colony will endorse— (Cheers.) THE ELECTORAL BILL. I have spoken to you so far of some of our political measures, and I don't think you will say even in a political point of view, that the Bess'ion was altogether barren, seeing that it practically altered the incidence of taxation. Now I will come to some of the bills we lost, the reasons they were lost, and all about them. And I will deal first with the Electoral Bill. Some of the provisions of this bill were new. One of them, I think, has never been enacted in any Colony before. We found that the existing franchises were as follows : There is what is termed the freehold franchise up to LSO per year There is then the household franchise of L 5 per year. There is also the three years' leasehold .franchise, and there is the case of those who pay rates and could be placed on the roll. Such was the existing law We proposed to alter it, so that females couid be placed on the roll it they paid rates We did not see why a lady of property should be excluded from voting in politics She has as much brains as a man. -(Cheers.) Then we proposed what is termed the manhood suffrage with a residential qualification, and we said this— that if a man is a man at all, and has a sufficient time in this Colony to be Ajouainted with its politics, he ought to a vote whether he has property or not. We carried this. So, I can assure you that it did not please some people. L(Laughter, and "Hear, tear.") Then I come to deal with the ostenbible cause why we loit in reference to the extension of the Maori franchise. At present, the Maoris haye the same franchise in every respect as the Europeans. We have-and I say it to the credit of this Colony-come to acknowledge their rights and the true brotherhood of man, and to admit them to equal rights with our(selves It would do no good in a new country to trample on the weak and try to set;upa kind of slave-caste, which we would be doing if we did not give the Maoris equal rights with ourselves. In the bill I brought in we pro. posed to take away from them the household £nd leasehold franchises. I opposed the ratetiavine franchise alone, because I thought we ought to encourage the Maoris to take part in all elections; and the only way to do that was to educate the race. I also knew that we could not expect Maoris to be properly represented by Europeans. There h i no one present here to ; mght who will doubt the beneficial results of the Maoris having their special representatives in Parliament, which haß, I believe, averted war. When I found it was impossible to introduce a Redistribution of Seats Bill, I urged that it would be monstrously unfair to pass a liberal Ml proposing to add to the European franchise, while the Maori franchise was almost swept away. I still say so. I deny that I asked to increase the Maori franchise, and challenge anyone to prove ao Having spent a great deal of time and care on the bill, I was exceedingly anxious to see it pass, but itcame fromthe Councihu such astute that we could not possibly asßenttoit. lirst, it deprived the Maoris of all their rights, and only gave them a ratepaying franchise, and some alteration was made in the miner* fraichise, (The hon. gentleman here explained the efforts made to arrange a settlement of the dispute with the Council.) No unprejudiced or unbiased person would dare to say that the Government were attempting to give the Maoris greater privileges that they before enjoyed Throughout the Government were anxious simply to preserve the rights the Maoris had— indeed, they took some rights from them. So anxious was he to have the measure passed that he was willing to limit the Maoris' privileges in some respects, but he declined, and should always decline, to be a party to any attempt to rob the Maoris of rights which they had held since the passing of the Constitution Act.— (Cheers.) I believe the objection of the Legislative Council was this : they knew that in the present state of the country the Government dared not accept that, and hence by their action in reference to tho Maori franchise the extension of the European franchise could be prevented. THE BEEU DUTY BILL. I wish to say something about a bill that has caused some talk and some discussion here— l mean the Beer Duty Bill.— (Applause. ) Well, Gentlemen, upon all these matters I shall bring before you the reasons I had for my conduct, and I think it my duty to do so. I can assure you of this, that of all the things I have done during the last session of Parliament I am not aware of a single thing I regret having done, or that I would not do again. As to the Beer Bill, we were told it was a terrible thing— the working men would'have to pay l^d per_ gallon extrafor their beer, aud great consideration was shown for them. I consider that beer is a legitimate object of taxation, and the best proof of that is that Englifh beer would have to pay from 9d to Is duty, while in the other Colonies it only pays Gd.— (Mr Watson : Half-a-crown.) —I am not aware of any Australian Colony in which 2s 6d is charged, and I know 6d is charged in Victoria. By putting on this tax of from Id to l^d, the brewers of this Colony will be in a better position than the brewers of the other Colonies to compete with the imported. It is an astonishing fact that notwithstanding the cry that the working-man must have cheap beer, the price here is double what it is in NeLson. I doubt very much whether the necessity of the working-man drinking cheap beer was Ak considered in the agitation which was got up. "When first proposed, it was a most popular ' tax, and I believe the House of Representatives would have carried the bill had wo brought it in a week after the Financial Statement was delivered. I cannot explain the change of opinion, but I can only tell you, and leave you to drawy our own conclusions from it. A deputation came to Wellington, and there was a great agitation amongst members of one interest— whether members of the House changed their views iv consequence I cannot say ; but the bill was lost. One gentleman who was strongly ia favour of the tax when ib was firot proposed, spoke in this way regarding it_: — " Surely, a tax upon the production of the country — beer — upon the home-brewed beer of the country, is a tax upon industry. Beer does not make itself ; it has to be made with a certain amount of labour, although how many things they do to it I do not kuow. More than that it ia a tax upon what some people hold to be a luxury of the working man, but what working men hold to be necessary. One of the strongest principles of the Government was that the burdens should be taken off the shoulders of the working man. We are to have a pound taken oil' sugar, and some trifle off the tea, and there was to be a free breakfast-table. Well, a great many men do not care anything about breakfast, they take a snack and a glass of beer at the first place they come to. So much is taken ofi and justj ust about the same amount is put upon their shoulders on an article which they consider, rightly or wrongly, a necessary of life. I think these are su.flicieu.tly valid reayons for objecting

to the beer tax, and every person can see how little reason there is in it." This, my honourable friend, Mr W. Fox, who, I say, was quite right, when he said that it might bind the Government more clo3ely to the liquor traffic by making the country dependent on it. He should have ended there. If he admits beer to be a necessity for the working man, I do not see how he is going to carry his Local Option Bill. He made his speech purely for party purposes. Those who opposed it were not at all in favour of it being thrown out. They simply opposed it because it was brought in by the Government. I regret exceedingly that the Bill should have been thrown out, and I say further, that if the land-owuing class choose to say, we will not be taxed in this way, I for one, will not do auything to lighten their burdens in the future. I have spoken to you about some of the things that we have done, and some that we lost, I now wish to speak of THE FUTURE. (Cheers.) There are certain broad lines upon which a Liberal Government must act, and I will name them to you. I think it my duty on this occasion not to cloak or disguise my opinion. I come therefore to deal with the Education question. I, for one, bave always supported aud shall support the secular system.—(Loud cheers.) It would be a great calamity for this Colony if we could not have our schools free from sectarian strife, — (Cheers )— I should have thought that a man's aspirations — a man's religious beliefs— were things far too sacred to be diagged into aud stalked about in political meetings. Those are ihm 3 s for himself. We have no right, as a Colony to take any notice of religious opinions. If wo did, where would the thing end? It would end, I say, in nothing but chaos and confusion.— (Cheers.)— l am sony to say there has been a movement— a twofold movement— set ou foot amongst you just to get what is called denominational schools ; or iv other word*, subsidies for the various religious bodies. It means nothing more than for the teaching of what peculiar doctrines the State can affoul to pay for. In any British country it has been a failure. It has been trial in Victoria and Auckland, and failed.— (A Voice: Go to ' America,) I can understand a person feeling strongly on this subject; but the gentleman who made the remark will have the oppoitunity of questioning me hereafter. The other movement— to get the Bible read in the schools— simply amounts to this: That a particular religion is to be nourished by the State ; and all the rest are to be given the go - by. I will tell you what Bible - reading in schools means. It means that you must limit your choice of teachers. I would like to know how anyone who wishes for Bible'reading in eohools would like a Jew to teach the Old Testament, or a Freethinker the New Testament.— (Cheers ) I don'fc think anyone would like that. Again, no one would be eligible for a school unless he wan, to use an elegant Scotoh phrase, " sound i 1 the faith." Try to enforce Bible-reading in schools, and you must necessarily have your teachers first examined as to what their views on the Bible are. They would not submit to that.— (Applause.) What does Bible-reading in schools do? Anyone who knows anything at all about teaching— and I ought to do, for I was a teacher for about nine years — knows very well that besides giving the scholars a palming now and again, the teachers have to see that their pupils are attentive to. their lessons. Three-fourths of the teachers will tell you that teaching the Bible in school has been, and always will be, a great failure. But suppose you did allow the Bible to be taught in schools, what version would you use? The Protestant version? Or perhaps we might have another version yet to come— l don't know, there are so many things being done now. We have heard a great deal of Darwinism and Evolution, and you who object to the reading of the Bible could have an hour or so of Darwinism instead in tho afternoon. I regret to see that some members of a Church thau in Scotland has stood nobly up for this doctrine, that the State has nothing whatever to do with religion, and who have always had tbis famous motto, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's,"— l regret to see that the principles of some members of this body haye changed here, and that, as a facetious friend of mine said, it seems all U P with them. —(Laughter.) Son?e of them stood nobly up in Scotland for keeping the Church up independent of the State, aud it seems strange that in this Colony they should ask the aid of the State in teaching religion. I was sorry to see that the Dunedin. Presbytery had passed a series of "whereases," for this reason— that some of those whereases were altogether wrong. They tell us, for instance, that tho system in existence in Victoria is going to decay. I don't think it.— (Cheers.) Then they tell you this— "Whereas— (laughter)— in consequence of the godless character thus assigned to the present national system, the feeling in favour of a denominational system has been gaining strength, ho that the bill of Mr Curtis recently before Parliament was only lo.st by tho narrow majority of six votes in a full House." Now, I u«k you if that is not a misuse of terms.— (" No," and " Yes.") Very well, I am going to deal with the question fairly and .straightforwardly. Do you think there is anything godless in teaching' a child grammar.— (A Voice, emphatically: "I do" anil roars of laughtor.) lam afraid, ladies and gentlemen, that a member of the Presbytery has come here by mistake. — (Renewed laughter.) Is there anything godless in teaching arithmetic, or writing, or reading, or geography, or history, or sewing, or drawing, or music? No. Il is a misuse of terms to say it.— (Loud cheeis.) Anyone who says otherwise either knows nothing of education or does not know the_ meaning of the word godless. However, here is another whereas.— (Loud laughter.) "Whereas, if such a bill had passed iuto lav/, many who would prefer a national system, in which tho Bible was permitted to be read, would ava ; l I themselves of the provisions of such an Act in order to secuie for their children a sufficient opportunity of becoming acquainted with God's Word, and, in consequence, the national system would be in danger of being destroyed." Now I can only say, in. reference to that, that those who talk in this way of Mr Curtis' bill can never have read the bill. Why, Mr Curtis said in bis speech that he did not wish for denomiuational schools. I will state to you the pro visions of his bill. There are only two clauses. The second clause provides that if any 25 householders signify in writing to the Education Board that they wanted a separate committee, that separate committee could be appointed. First, the Board was to give money or books to the committee ; no books could be read in that school without the sanction of the Board ; the teacher could not be ap. pointed unless he held a certificate under the Board ; and tbitf school established by Mr Curtis was placed in exactly the same position as the present schools are, and nothing but secular instruction was to be given. / There is no provision in this bill for any power to give religious instruction during school hours. It provided that during the hours set apart for ychool work it was to lie exactly the same as the present schools are. This is an adinis&ion by the denominationalists that religion need not be mixed up with school teaching. J3ut sup-

pose Mr Curtis' bill had become law, what would have been the result? Why, every 25 or more dissatisfied householders wonld have been able to have a little peddling school of their own if they wanted, the schools would have been injured, and the teacher would have had to be an assistant to the clergymen, or if he refused to become such he would be speedily got rid of.— (Applause.) I am surprised that denominationalists should accept Mr Curtis' bill. By doing so they admit that secular and religious instruction ought to be separated. 1 regret very much that the Presbyterian Synod framed that "whereas," because it; is not correct with regard to Curtis' bill. 1 say on this question of education I have n*ver changed. I think in the Provincial Council I was one of the few— one of the minority— who asked that out of respect to the religious feelings of the scholars, the Bible should not be read. ' I don'b care what opinions a man may bold, but let him be satisfied that when his child goes to school, his religion will not be jeered &t and mocked and ridiculed, and that las child will learn reading, writing, arithmetic, and grammar. TRIENNIAL PAHLIAMENTS. And now I come to deal with some other things that I believe must be our policy for the future. Gentlemen, there was a bill brought before Parliament this session that I fought for very strongly, and regret very much that it was not passed. It was called the Triennial Parliaments Bill.— (Cheers.) I believe that in this Colony, where our legislation is rapid, where public questions are _ changing, and new ones continually arising, that there should be frequent appeals to the people, and I therefore believe that three years is quite long enough for any of our Parliaments to last. I also believe that we in this Colony are placed in a different position from politicians in the United Kingdom. If you will read any book on constitutional law it will tell you that when the Government advises the Queen to grant a dissolution it is almost always granted. But in this Colony we find— as in the case of the Hon. E. W. Stafford for instancethat the Governor will sometimes refuse to grant a dissolution, but force the Government either to abandon measures or give up the reins of office. That bill ought to become law, so that the people can be consulted on matters affecting their interest frequently. ELECTORAL REFORM, ETC. I need not take up your time by referring to electoral reforms. I hope we shall yet be able to get an Electoral Reform Bill passed that will be practically baaed on manhood suffrage. I need hardly speak to you about the Redistribution of Seats Bill. That is a most difficult matter to deal with ; it can only be dealt with, in fact, very delicately and tenderly at first. If a bill of this description were passed we might get rid r>f some of the blots on our present system. We might give some of our districts that; are not sufficiently represented additional representation ; and in future there should be a commision which should allocate to the various districts new members according to population, and population alone. That is the only proper system, I believe.— (Applause.) Gentlemen, I am afraid it would take too long to touch upon all the subjects I have noted down here, and therefore I must skip over some of them altogether. LAW REFORM. I need not touch upon this question, because you will have seen from Hansard that the subject has not been neglected by the Government. I can only say that if we are able to retain office we intend to provide for reforms in both our local and other judicatures, and we hope so to make the law that it shall be within the reach of tho poorest in the community. — (Hear.) There is another matter I wish to refer to, and it is about THE CHINESE. — (Cheers.) On this matter I expressed the opinion in the House, and I now express it, that wo ought to pass an Act similar to that which is law in Queensland, restricting the arrival of Chinese to this Colony.— (Cheers.) I believe that the whole of our civilisation might be interfered with if they were to come in unrestricted numbers to our shores. I now wish to make one or two rematks in reference to THE LAND QUESTION. Gentlemen, I have had to do with the administration of our waste lands. I am, as you are perhaps aware, the Minister for Lands. Since 'I have takeu that office I have done everything I could to provide land for settlement, and I think it can be said that there bave been more lands proclaimed under the deferred-payment system during the time that this Government have lieen in office than was ever proclaimed before, aud that more < lands are being provided for settlement in the interior districts than have been provided before. How was I met when I proposed to give due attenti >n to the requirements of the interior districts in Otugo? What did I find? That there were many distiicts — I det-iro to observe that I did not and do not wish to Fee the pastoral tenants injured or ruined, but dealt with fairly and honourably— iv which the people were urgently requiiing land and there was none to give them. I also found this great difficulty: that tho surveys were so much in arrears that I had to send to Melbourne and > Sydney for surveyors. We are now getting the work over taken as fast a 9 we possibly can, and I intend to provide for settlement in the interior of Otago as quickly as the staff gets through its work. I cannot speak at any length on the matter, but I have no doubt that if Mr Macandrew's grand scheme of interior railways were earned out, we should soon see a different phase of thing 3in this Colony. _ I believe a mistake was committed in making our lines too near the coast. We should really have our lines penetrating the interior, and opening up the lands to be provided for settlement by the people. —(Applause.) In what I proposed I considered I gave fair, equitable, and due attention to tho requirements of settlement in this province, but how was I met in that ? There came telegrams up to Wellington, warning the members against me.— [The hon. gentleman here read the telegram signed by the Otago bank managers, stock and estate agents, and representatives of loan companies] —Gentlemen, I ask you when you remember the line I have taken up on educational matters, when you remember the line I have taken up on the various other matters I have mentined to-night, and when you remember the line I have taken upon tho laud question — are you surprised that you see me much abused in a section of the Press ? —(Applause.) It would take too long for mo 1 to read to you the reply I sent to that telegram, I but gentlemen, I told them firmly that so long as I was Minister for Lands I should open np what lands I considered to bo suitable for settlement, and that I did not care either for bfink managers or companies. — (Loud cheeiM.) Now I have told you what our i views are — that, so far as the finances of j the Colony will allow, we intend to provide i laud for setting apart on the deferred-payment system, so as to enable all classes of the community to obtain homes for themselves and their families. T tell you also that this laud question is one that is not got rid of when the land is all sold. Wo find after all that it is the question of questions in old countries ; and is even bo in America. I say that it is our duty ia a uew country 80 to

frame our laws, so to provide by our statutes, that we shall escape the evils of those old countries. What have we camo to this new country for, if we have not some aspirations that we shall be able here so to frame our laws that we shall get rid of the evils that have overtaken older communities. _ We ought, in framing our law.s, to so deal with the land that we shall not witness what has been witnessed in old countries - the rich getting rioh«r, and the poor poorer, which can only b9 avoided by seeing that our lands are properly kept, husbanded, and administered. I have told you that we have pa3sed a law in order to provide for the distribution of the land amongst the people. Ido mt believe that any country will ever be great that allows its lands to pass into the hands of a few people. If I had time I could read to you a mobt interesting extract from a paper by Proteasor Clifford Leslie's (Introduction to Lavaleye'a Primitive Property), wherein be she ms that the land question is after all the question of questions for tho people. I can only tell you, as I do not wish to read this long extract, that he shows that the English land system hns followed the system of feudalism, whi'e that of France has followed the system of the people. I bi-liuve that only two remedies can be provided in dealing with the land iv the future, There should not only be equality of political rights, but something like equal conditions amongst the people ; for, depend upon it, if you have a democracy which, instead of preserving tquality of conditions, but biiagd the few rich face to face with the many poor, the end will be anarchy, confusion, and despotism. There are, as I have said, only two ways to obtain this equality of conditions. There is the French system, Avhich says that a man hhall not be allowed by his will to dispose of his land as he pleases, but shall divide a certain proportion of it amongst the whole of his family. We see the re suit of this system. , After the recent great war the French nation were ablo to pay millions of money.— (A Voice : Ending witb the Commune.) I say that so far as the French nation are concerned there is not much Communism there. They were able to pay off the vast war debt, and now the people are prosperous and happy, simply through taeir subdivision of the laud. You must have a modification of the French system introduced into this Colony, or else you will have to adopt the other system, which has been proposed, of what is called a progressive land tax. This i.s a subject which, I think, the Government ought to take into sonaideration. On account of the lateness of the hour I shall have to pass over the question of railway construction, our local govern men. proposals, &c, and will only a few words in reference to THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. So far as the Council is concerned I have always bsen, and am now, in favour of what U called the system of nomination, I do not be lieve in an elective Council, because that woul I lead to the same deadlocks and crises that hava taken place in Victoria. Walter Bagehot, in his work ou the English Constitution, says we have under that constitution some comeatable thing to put an end to crises and deadlocks^ which can only be dene by dissolution of the Lower House, or the creation of members of the Upper House for the occasion. The Government of the day ought to have this power of creation in their hands ; if it had been the case in Victoria, there would n f >t have been so many deadlocks there. In this Colony we are met with this question : o>ir Liberal measures can hardly be carried thru ugh the present Upper House, where there is piaotically a majority of Conservatives. The consequence is that our measures are so emasculated that we scarcely know them again. I for one havo been blamed for being obstinato and not yielding. If I bring in a measure which I consider to be a good one, I would rather give it up altogether than have it emasculated, or made a fool of by everyone who chooses to make an amendment. Here we hava this great dead weight. It is said that there is no party Government in the Upper House, but that, is the greatest farce. Do you think a man loses his party opinions because he is dubbed M.L.C. ? We Iwe, as I have saiJ, a majority of Conservatives in tho Council. Now, wo consider it to be our duty to pass some liberal measures, to which end it is necessary that our opinions should be represented iv the Council as well as in the House of Representatives. The only waj' to do that is this : to provide that the tenure of tffice of the Legislative Councillors should not be for life.— (Cheers ) Life tenure i? altogether out of harmony with our institution.--, and it is time that such a thing should bo put an end to. Posbibly a tenure of offica lev seven years, or for ten years at the outside, might get rid of somo of the difficulties we aA present encounter. There is another question about which I have written, and have been a good deal pitched into for so writing. I allude to tho ELECTION 01' GOVERNOR. I say that we ought to look ahead. Surely we are ablo to elect our ruler without the aid of the Secretary for the Colonies ?—? — (Cries of '"yes," aud "no.") All I can say U that if the gentleman who cries "no" &n loudly is not yet fit, I hope he will so educate himself that when che time comes when my proposal shall be carried out he will be able to oust hifl vote properly. I repeat that we ought to look forward to that ; aud I believe the time will come when the colony as a, whole will say that wo are fit to govern ourselves. We will not lose anything in loyalty, or in any degree lessen our connection with Great Britain because we ele'.t our Govornor. We el?cted our Superintendents, who wore practically Governors, but we were none the less loyal because we do not allow some person in London to nominate them for us. — (Applause.) CONCLUSION. Well, gontlemen, I am se.iry I bave not been able t) touch up m many points that I had intended to do. Let mo now say a few words, in conclusion — some of them personal to myself. I have sketched out somo of the measures that I consider liberal. I tell youthat I remain in politics because I have some ideas I want canyiiig out, and not because of any emoluments that might accrue from my position an a politician. 1 tell you that Igo into politics for this purpose— l hope to see some of my ideas carried out. I have firm convictions on many subjects, and I am not going to surrender them for anybody.— (Cheers.) If you think, when the general election comes round, that I am all wrong, you havo it in your power to tell me so if you pleaso. But i shall I always give my fulhVt and freest expression of opinion.— (Cheers.) I have often had it said to me. "Ob, you should not d") this?," "You should not do that," "Youaro injuring yourself in bushier," "You havo < ffendod tho Presbyleriuu interebt, and all the cle»gynien." Gentlemen, am I to ba in this community to act the hypocrite, to cloak my opinions beforo the people?— (Cheers.) The opinions 1 hold I believe in.— (Loud cheers.) And 1 can assure you that no place— no, nothing tha 1 ; you could offer me— will make lue refrain from freely and fully expressing those opinions', *yd trying to cret tl'i'im cairicl into eiiVcc— (Loud chcip.) J ask you if you believe that _ tho present Government h trying to aim at liberal measur-js, that it i-3 trying to fraruo l.tw.s to get rid ct yariouo t-rnvka of injuatieo Uuit now e.xht,— i

I ask you, I say, to give us your sympathy and your aid.— (Enthusiasm.) Do you think I am, one of those who believe that people enjoy the idea that we leave our business and our homes for the purpose of having abu^e and evil motives attributed to us? Why, if I did not believe that there were many peop c m this Colony who, though they do not hold the views 1 do on many subjects, believe that we aw anxious and sincere for the advancement or this Colony, I would not remain longer in politics. -(Cheers.) Gentlemen, I thank you for the very patient hearing you have given me.— (Loud and prolonged cheers.) QUESTIONS. In answer to questions, Mr STOUT said that it had not been fixed in what part of Great Britain Mr G. M Heed was to devote his tnno —that point would be left for the Agent- , Geneial, who no doubt would place him in the part where In 3 service* would be best utilised. Immigration was nece-sary just now. Agricultural laborers could not be got in some A parts of the Colony to .reap the harvest. He was not in favor of altering the mode in which deferred rayment land, -was obtained from auction ,to ballot,' because the ballot system had caused a great deal of discontent We were offering a good deal of deferred payment land just now, and he did not think it would fetch such prices as for instance it did in Shag Valley. At ballot a man who applied for twenty sections might not get one, while at auction he gave what he thought to be a reasonable price for tho land. Peisonally he still thought, never having changed his opinions, that the abolition of the Provinces was a great loss to tho Colony. The present Government were not piepared to propose tho repeal of tho Aboliiion Act. He thought it an absolute necessity to establish asylums for inebriates, and hoped the Government would bo able to build several in the Colony. Ho believed it was a fact that some of the gentlemen, named by the questioner [\\v Henry Clarke, Mr , Hopkins Clarke, and Mr Wrigley) were Native officers, but to his knowledge Mr Henry Olarko 1 i had not since the present Government came - into, office bought any Native lands. Not only '* had the present Government passed a regulation visiting with instantaneous dismissal any officer who trafficed in Native lands, but none of themselves had ever attempted to purchase any. The be.'.t test of the Maoris being fit to record their votes wai the fact that they did reoord them. He was in favor of gi an ting free, railway passes to members of the Legislature, became the better acquainted with tha Colony they became the better legislation \va should have. So far as tha Pi ess was concerned, r he did not think there would be any harm iv granting one pass to pach np^svaper : t heyond that he would not io. The line, 1 owever, must be drawn some here, and he would not grant passes to &cioo in.sie.s. He had spent a week in inves gating Mr G. ■ B. Bai ton's charges rgai.S", the Judges. Colonel WhitTTnoreV r>]ly o them dby hiir self . Those ohv ges « e> c utterly withou foundaton.— (^pplaus'.j He -oas y u übt- ■ ful aboi t the ad/isarility of leasing th railways to contract ore, who n igh, »• o < o - powerful • for the Gjvercment to deal with. Be had . wished to resign on the !beer Isiu, but variou3 members of the B< use «aid it was not a Government ques^icn, atd asked them not to resign i upon it. He d;d not bslieve that the Land lax Bill had anything to do with the withdrawal of English capital ; if they w acted to know why < Engli&h capital was withdrawn, they had better ask the directois of the City of Glasgow .Bank. Mr J. P. Armstrong then came forward and iaid : I have very great pleasure in moving a vote of thanks to Mr Stout for his eloquent address. I believe that the hon. gentleman is part of the best Government that ever New Zealand had, so far as the great interests of the industrial classes are concerned.— (Loud cheers.) * ■ • Mr W. D. Sutherland seconded the motion, which was put in this form :— " That thn ' meeting thanks Mr Stout for his address, and 1 * places every confidence in him as our repre-' senta'uva." , The resolution was carried without a single dissentient, the result being received with rounds of cheers. The Attorney General, in returning thanks, said he did not think he ever addressed a larger, more orderly, or more harmonious meeting in' Dunedin than the present. He could assuro them that it was impossible to express the feelings he experienced — having met with such a favourable reception— a reception whic^ would act as an iucentive to him to go on doing his best for the good of the Colony, and expressing his opinions in the free&t manner. A vote of thanks to the Chairman brought the meeting to a close at 10 minule3 to 11 o'clock.