RETRENCHMENT

Otago Daily Times, Issue 18464, 27 January 1922, Page 6

RETRENCHMENT

THE GOVERNMENTS PROPOSALS. DEBATE IN THE HOUSE. AN ALL-NIGHT SITTING. THIRTY DIVISIONS TAKEN. r f (Fbom Om Own Cobhespondent.) WELLINGTON, January 26. For the second time since it came before ‘the. Hons® of Representatives. thePubbo Expenditure Adjustment Bill has been to«xmsime, for members being keptup all aught., When the consideration of the roeac Blue in committee commenced last evening ■it ' w&9 soon obvious iijjftt the pafisugo of ‘ the various clauses was going to be a ! lengthy business. The amendments, of which notice had been given, were alone efficient to prolong the discussion far •reload the ordinary limits if they were to ■ha given the most elementary consideration. The first clause having been passed the proWious evening, the committee proceeded -o ■debate , the next, in which provision was 1 made for at least some deduction from all ■salaries. This wae natmaUy the for ■’ numbers of amendments. Mr a. ia MjQ (Baler) had given iwripe of severe . ->the object of winch was, first, to -that ail salaries should not be “ff®®*®®’ .■•and second, to set a limit below which the taut should not go. Such o proposalopened 'the'way,for a debate m very general terms. Hfry* discussion round the fast paint P*®" t-e ceded briskly until after imdmght. It was -W® before 1 o’clock when the dwwffl ifcflla first.rang. Individual votes were taken m, flib various aspects of the amendments ’ to thib danse. One of the most typical was a, motion by Mr J. that the reductions should not aRP*? to , ; salaries below £250. ' ***' rvj to ’ 33, Messrs Ohitha Mackenzie (Auckland Bast), R. A. Wright ■ T&jwSs), and J. A. Young (Waikato) voting against the Government. A similar SLTwaT taken by Dr A. K- Newimm (Wellington Bart) and Messrs J. MNI Dickon (Chdmers) and G. R. Sykes W**' ton), but it is not unusual to find these members ranged again** on a division in committee. From that time 1, forvvardno danse absorbed the same amount of time. The discussions were P ro^L n hilt there was Bttle about them of the MtetTof a stonewall. IXwmom fdlowed oao another with monotonous regularity, so ■\ that those members who deeired merely to -j be on hand without participating m the ' debate were not given, '« • sloen without interruption. Between the ' nnsawre of clause 2 and the adjournment at I tfdodc tins morning 30 divisions wore taken, .with no tod rave those proposed by the Government. Givmg roughly five minutes to eadi division, it will be Been that two and e-half hours were , - taken up by the recording of votes alone. . YtewS m a whole, the proceedings through the long night were largely featmelres! There was Bttle *Srt either cßsonanom or votes- At the gaDenee were crowded to capacity, as they nave been each time that this , has been down for consideration. Though there was not the complete clearance that rnLally occurs after the ropper adjourn- - ' mient,'the spectators gradually dnftedaway. , i IA. sprinkling remained until far into the !•} the morning, but apart from Lh ffeho personal interest of members ot the k lwffiTrervioe there was little to hold the ■attention of anyone m the galleries. By ■ the time the Prime NCmster to progress and adjourn until the afterHESot the first six clauses of the measure been disposed of- Plenty of Korn, matter remained, and word went prior to the re-assembly of the Hou-e the opposition of the Labour Party would be carried to the point of exhaustion. Proceedings oombriskly enoiih, thejsxof the night-before. The same as the day before was noticeable afternoon, progress being slow and eann being discussed to the. full. progress was made tins evening With committee stage of the Pubho ExAdjustment Ball and just before the House was divided on preby the Labour Party to the clause 7 regarding further reductions might be made m certain on 1, 1922 and January 1, 1925. On stroke of midnight the Bill was reported oommittee. the afternoon and evening for Hne time Mr Vernon H. Reid relieved Mr os chairman of the oommittee. the supper adjournment a most ■SamU, incident occurred. A division was ,; without the rmging of the bell, ■and not a single member .nor the artmg- ■ chairman,noticed the omission, which might ■ very well have put some non-voter who f‘happened to be in the library—w m BelI"; Jamy’s—in an awkward position with his V oonetituents through bis not having had ■the opportunity of recording bis vote. r, p (Pom United .Psrea SSOOIATION.) 5 , r‘■ , WELLINGTON, January 25. .. - On Mr P. Fraser’s motion that the Act . v da all not apply to salaries bdow £Zt> o, . which was lost by 37 votes to 35, the divi- , sion list was as follows: — ' For the Ambndment. Atmore. H. Ngsta, A^T • Bartram, F. N. Parry, W. E. Craigie, J. Poland, H. ' ’ Diokaon, J. ITC. Savage, M- J’’Bdie J. Seddon, T. E. Y. i -Forlife. G- "W- T. K. Fraedr. P. Smith, B. G. ■' Hafchn, J. A. Smite, S. G. Holland, H. & Statham, C. E. TTAm J. Sullivan, D. G. Krd, E. J. Syk®B G. E. Kellett, B. Combs, J. Gilford, T. M. Mackenzie, C. N. - „ . Maetere, R. Wright, R. A. Mitchell, G. Young, J. A. •. Newman, Dr. ,J ’‘ ' Against thb Amundment. ! ‘ Bitohener, J. Jo no a, D. , Bollard, B. F. Le«i E. P. - -Burnett. T. D. Bute, SirJ. P. , ’ Campbell. H. M. Lysnar, W. D. . Coates, J. G. \ D ‘ Dickson, J. S. 1 . A. S Dixon, Mander, F. Field, W. H. Maasoy, W. F. Glenn, W. S. Noah, J. A_^ ' ' Guthrie, D. H. Newman E Hamilton, J. R. Ncsworthy, W. Hamilton, A. Parr, C. J. ■ Harris, A. Pomaro, Dr M. ■Hawken,-0. J. ' TTettare Rhodes, T. W. Herries, Sir W. H. Rhodes, Sir R. H. , Hockley, F. F. W. D. / Hudeon, R. P. Williams, K. S. j . Hunter, Sir G. . ■ ■ After the telegraph office closed, Mr Massey’s amendment giving a chance <-f negotiations' in the railwaymen’s case was agreed to by 51 votes to 18. p Mr W. A, Veitch (Wanganui) made an ■ effort to suspend the operation of the new clause until it has been agreed to by a I majority of the organisations concerned, but this was lost by 42 to 26. ;■ jj£ r IVTCombs then returned to the question of exempting salaries below £2lO from ■ reduction, but this was defeated by 31 to 35. A' Vote was then taken on clause 2 as a whole, which was agreed to by 57 to 11. Mr Sullivan moved to report progress, bub the Prime Minister would not consider ; the suggestion, and on a division the motion was rejected by 54 to 15. In clause 3 Mr Fraser moved to strike out from the exemptions the GovernorGeneral. The Hon. E. P. Lee said that if this was carried it would bo necessary to reserve , ' the Act for Royal assent. The amendment , was lost by 51 to 9. Mr Holland moved to strike out from the exemptions judges of, the Supreme ’ Court. . , The Hon. E. P. Lee pointed out that this wae contrary to the Constitution Act, and could not be moved. The chairman upheld this objection, ano ruled the amendment out of order. This , , a l ao applied to the judge of the Arbitration Parry moved to bring ‘the High Com- ‘ missionor within the scope of the cut; but it was contended that "there was«a contract A 1 ip-, this loose, which could not be violated. 1,11 Mr Holland retorted that there was a ; ' contract with every man who entered the railway service, and that contract was now jyting torn up. The Prime Minister said that the High ■ Commissioner’s expenses were very heavy. ■ . His rent alone wae £7OO per annum, and ; '■ further, there was a contract for three years ' -with Sir James Allen, and that contract . ■ should be respected. ■> After lengthy discussion the amendment ■ ! was ’loat by 38 to 30. Ia '<Mr Fraser, on behalf of Mr Bartram, '■ * moved to reduce the fees and commissions by the Government to professional i'fmeo., - -

The Hoc. £. P. Lee contended that this could not be done. . Mr Holland replied that the Government must find a way of doing it if the House so directed it. In reply to the contention that these men paid thrdugh the income tax, he said it,was surprising how the Government applied that argument when it suited it; but when the Labour Party said that the whole of the money should be raised through income tax they said it could not be done The amendment was lost by 46 to 18. Clause 3, as a whole, was added to the Bill by 51 to 15 At 4.20 a.m. Mr Holland moved to report progress on the ground that the House was not physically fit to consider such important legislation at that hour. The Prime Minister said that the majority of the members desired to go on. They had passed only two clauses, and he asked the House to go on and finish. The motion was lost by 47 to 21. Mr Statham moved an amendment to clause 4 providing for a graduated but increasing reduction on all salaries above £SOO. Mr Massey was suspicious of the obiuse, and advised the House to reject it. Mr Wilford supported the amendment because it provided for graduation, and would produce more revenue than the Prime Minister’s proposal. . amendment was negatived by 37 to At 5 o'clock Mr Wilford moved to report progress, but this was negatived by 42 to 23. In clause 5 Mr Parry moved that in the case of teachers the Bill come into operation on April 1 instead of January 1. Mr Masaey said that they could not fix a different date for teachers .than had been fixed for other public servants. He pointed out that in 1918 £200,000 was provided for teachers, and in 1920 £300,000 was provided. He was not proposing to cut into the £200,000, but he did propose to take same of the £300,000. He was anxious to make the out as fair as possible, and that would take time for consideration. It wae a very difficult question. The Hon, C. J. Parr said that the average deduction from teachers would be about £1 per month out of £2O for women and £1 per month out of about £27 for men, so that the hardship was not very great?. \ Discussion on this amendment lasted till 6.20 a.m., when it was rejected by 33 to 28. Mr Savage moved to postpone the reduction for 12 months. This was not discussed, and oh the division woe lout by 39-25. Mr Sullivan moved that the reduction in teachers’ salaries be at the rate of 1 per cent, cm the annual rate of increases, not 30 per cent, as proposed in the Bill. This was negatived by 59 to 25. Clause 5 wao added to the Bill by 39-25. At 7 o’clock Mr Holland moved to report progress, and this was negatived by 43 to 22. In clause 6 Mr Howard moved to substitute April for January as the date from which reductions take place. He contended that there was a general understanding throughout the dominion, as the result of a pronouncement by the Arbitration Court, that wages were to be stabilised until April, 1922. This amendment aimed at giving effect to that understanding. Mr Massey declared that if such an understanding existed the Government was not responsible for it or a party to -it, and could not be bound by it. amendment was negatived by 39 to Mr Massey moved the new sub-clauses '• and 2 in clause 6, which governed the pro-' gressrve rates at which reductions are to be made. There were agreed to. Mr Fraser moved an amendment on the Prime Minister’s _ new clause, the effect ct which was non-interferenoe with salaries below £320. This was lost by 41 to 25. Mr_ Fraser moved -a similar amendment affecting wage-earners in the public service, which was also lost by 39 to 27. Mr Sullivan moved an amendment for the purpose of maintaining the 'present rate on overtime, which was lost by 39-27. Mr M’Comba moved that there be r o reduction in wages or bonuses until the cost of living computed on all groups had fallen 10 points below the 52 per cent, increase on prices ruling in 1914. .This was negatived by 29 to 26. Clause 6, as amended, was then challenged, but was agreed to by 40 to 26. Progress was then reported, and the House rose at 8 o’clock till 2.30 this after noon. Thirty divisions took place during the sitting. TEACHERS’ SALARIES. Discussion on the Public Expenditure Adjustment Bill was resumed in committee of the House of Representatives. Clause 7, providing for further reductions being made in certain cases in April and July next, was deleted on the Prime Minister’s motion, with a view to inserting a new clause. On clause 8, dealing with tile rates of reduction in teachers’ salaries, Mr B. J. Howard (Christchurch South) moved an amendment providing . that the regulations giving effect to suqh reductions should not apply until approved by Parliament Mr Howard that it was desirable to end the day oL government by regulation. The Minister said the proposals could not come before the House, as they could not bo prepared in time. _ Therefore application through the medium of regulations was necessary. The Prime Minister agreed that a review of the proposals by Parliament was desirable, but he pointed out that it Could not be done in this financial year, which was nearly at an end. Mr Holland said that the Minister of Education had already antagonised all branches of the teaching service, and to give him authority to make reductions in salaries by regulation was but a most dangerous power in his hands, as it Was likely to provoke a serious revolt throughout the teaching service. The Minister pointed out that the administration of the department could not be carried out in detail by Statute. ThOre were 26 different grades or ■ classes of teachers,- each of which required special consideration. Further, a start could not be made with the framing of regulations until the department knew what amount of money the House would allow for distribution. As soon as that was known the details of salary reductions would begin, and the teachers’ own representatives would be consulted so as to arrive at a method of distribution as equitable as it was possible to make it. Mr Veitch suggested that _ whatever arrangement was made on this occasion it should not be subject to further revision until placed before Parliament. The amendment was defeated by 43 to 24. ' Mr Fraser said the division had been taken on an amendment which was designed to make the best of a bad job. He now proposed to teat the feeling of the committee on the whole clause, which, he contended, would be vicious in its operation, and likely to lead to a grave injustice. The clause was retained by 42 to 26. Clause 9, providing that reductions shall not operate in such a manner as to bring any public servant’p remuneration below that received by a subordinate, was retained unchallenged. Clause 10, covering reduced grants to education boards and university _ authorities, was subjected to long criticism, but was retained by 48 to 26. EVENING SITTING. The debate in committee was resumed at 7.30 p.m SUPERANNUATION FUNDS. On clause 11 (rights of contributors to superannuation funds) Mr Veitch moved an amendment making the clause apply only to persons in receipt of less than £450 a year. He said that superannuation funds required careful conserving, and he thought that higher paid officials would receive a sufficient pension, oven in a scale in accordance with the proposed reductions in salaries, and they siiould not be allowed to become a burden on the fund to which they only contributed on a higher scale for a short time. The Hon. W. D. Stewart said that Mr Veitch’s amendment would work an injustice on the higher paid men in the service if they were deprived of the option to pay on the higher scale during the balance of their service in order to secure the full pension benefit to whiclj they had been contributing all along. The Prime Minister said the matter had not been finally dealt with, and the Government actually was being asked to go into it further. The amendment was lost on the voices. VARIOUS CLAUSES. Clause 11 was passed on the voices. On clause 12 the Prime Minister moved to add a sub-clause 2: “All rates of salaries ,and wages which by any scheme of classification are appropriate to any nosition or office shall be deemed to be reduced by the amount of any reduction effected by this act in the rate of remuneration of any person holding such position or office.” Mr Veitch urged that the Bill should not bo allowed to affect overtime rates paid to rail way men. The Minister of Railways, .Mr Guthrie, said they did not propose to interfere wtih overtime.

Tie sub-clause was carried by 55 votes to 13. On clause 13 (computation of rates of reduction of salary) Mr Howard moved an amendment that the regulations shall not have effect unless approved by Parliament. Mr Massey said this would hang the Bill up indefinitely. The amendment was defeated by 45 to 13. On clause 14, giving the Governor-general power to make regulations, Mr F. N. Bartram (Grey Lynn) moved to make the clause applicable only after approval by Parliament. This was lost on the voices. The Prime Minister moved a new sub-clause to clause 11 safeguarding the interests of those public servants who do not elect to contribute to the superannuation fund on the higher scale when their salaries a ir« reduced. This was adopted on the voices. The Prime . Minister moved a new clause 7 providing that further reductions may be made in certain cases on July 1, 1922, and January 1, 1923. Mr Veitch moved an amendment ore. scribing the method of arriving at the rate of reductions. He explained that the Prime Minister's clause provided that the Minister of Finance shall take the report of the statistician as to the cost of living into consideration.. Hia amendment provid'd that the Minister of Finance must, in calculating the fall in the cost of living, be governed by that report. The amendment was lost by 40 to 27. Mr W. B. Parry (Auckland Central) moved a new proviso to clause 7 providing that there shall bo no reduction in wages or bonuses until the cost of living (all groups) has fallen 10 points below 52 per cent, on the increase on prices ruling m 1914, the computation to be made on a sixmonthly moving average basis from the six months ended July, 1914, to the six months ended March and September in each year. Ho said there was no guarantee that prices had fallen to any material extent, and until that fall was assured there should be no reduction in salaries or wages. His amendment provided an equitable mbtho 1 of arriving at this information. On a division this proviso was rejected by 40 votes to 24. Mr M'Combs moved to add the following provisos to clause 7: “Provided that no reduction in wages or bonuses shall be recommended unless there is a fall in the cost of living (all groups) equivalent to, or greater than, 10 per cent.; provided further that if application is received by the judge of the Court of Arbitration to hear evidence from societies representing State employees, the judge shall hold a sitting of the Arbitration Court to hear such evidence as in the case .of an industrial dispute. After a' brief discussion the provisos were rejected by 41 votes to 21. The clause was then added to the Bill, which was reported with amendments. On the question that the amendments made in the Bill be agreed to Mr T. M. WILFOBD moved that the Bill be recommitted for the purpose of reconsidering aub-dauae Bof clause 6. He said he did this for the purpose of giving the House another opportunity of putting sortie limit to the lower salaries which should not be touched. The House by a narrow majority had defeated the amendment that salaries below £2lO should not be reduced. His personal opinion was that no salary below £320 should be touched, and he appealed to the Prime Minister to fix some limit below which the lower paid public servants should not suffer any loss. Mr Wilford’s amendment was briefly supported by Mr M‘Combs and Mr C. E. Statham, the latter stating that he voted for the second reading of the Bill because ho believed some reductions must take place, but the reductions as provided in Bill were so inequitable that ho could not possibly accept them. If this motion were not carried he must vote against the third reading. The amendment was defeated by 38 to 26. Following is the division list on Mr Wilford’s amendment: FOB THE AMENDMENT. Atmore Dr Newman •Bartram Parry Craigie Poland Bdie Savage Forbes Seddon Fraser. Sidey Hanan S. G. Smith Holland Statham Howard Sullivan Kellett Veitch M‘Combs Wijford Masters Witty. Mitchell Wright AGAINST THE AMENDMENT. Bitchener J ones Bollard Lee Burnett Luke Campbell M'Leod Coates M'Niool J. M. Dickson Mackenzie J. S. Dickson Mander E. Dixon Massey Field Nash Glenn E. Newman ' Guthrie , Noeworthy A. Hamilton Parr J. R. Hamilton Pomaro Harris Reed Hawken , ’ R. H. Rhodes Henare T. W. Rhodes Herries Stewart Hockly; Sykes Hudson Young . Ort the motion that the Bill be read a third lime, Mr Holland, on behalf of the Labour Party, entered a final protest against the Bill. Mr Statham further explained his attitude on the Bill, emphasising his desire to see the reductions mode on a graduated scale. Messrs Bartram, Atmore, M “Combs, and Parry also adversely criticised the Bill. Disoussion is proceeding. [Left sitting.] PUBLIC SERyiCE PROTESTS. (l Umrrn Prmh Association.' PALMERSTON N., January 26. A mass meeting of 160 representatives of all branches of the public service unanimously resolved—“ This, meeting of public servants enters a most emphatic protest against the Bill now before the House and the clauses contained in it. have held to our agreement as to a reconsideration of salaries based on the Government Statistician’s figures, and still do so. We expect these figures to be revised as from April 1, and assure our several executives of our utmost support of any action necessary to ensure the absolute fulfilment of the agreement; further, this meeting is of opinion that If the country must have more revenue, or must reduce expenditure, the sacrifice must be spread over the whole community, and the revenue could best be obtained by a universal tax on every wage earner, with no minimum whatever,” AUCKLAND. Januarv 25. Tile Railway Officers’ Institute resolved—‘That as the employees of the department had nothing to do with creating the financial difficulties of the Government thev fail to see why their salaries and wages should be commandeered for extricating the Government; that railways Were constructed for the most part for political and colonising purposes, and that many lines were laid, the construction of which a business concern would not have entertained for a moment. To expect the railways to pay an adequate return of the capital expended under such circumstances is unreasonable, and attempts to do so resulted in the charges to the nublic being unduly raised, to the detriment of the railway business. Whilst assuring the executive of their confidence and loyal support, the time has arrived when immediate negotiations should be opened with the other two railway societies and other civil service organisations with a view to combating unitedly on common grounds the Government’s unreasonable proposals.” DUNEDIN EAILWAYMEN, STRIKE BALLOT TO BE TAKEN. In view of the strong feeling among railway men with regard to the proposed reduction in wages, the executive of the A.S.R.S. has decided to hold a etriko ballot. At a mess meeting of employees .of Hillside Workshops to-day it was decided to cndorjo the action of the executive.