SECOND DIVISION

New Zealand Times, Volume XLII, Issue 9718, 21 July 1917, Page 11

SECOND DIVISION

AN INSTRUCTIVE INTERVIEW MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT MUCH OBLIGED.

1 What was described by Mr T. M. Wilford. M.P., as one of the most eatisfacf tori' and effective deputations that has over visited Parliament House was that i from the Second Division League which interviewed about fifty members of Par- ; Lament yesterday morning. The dele- | gates from the Dominion Conference, which has now been sitting for three days, wore well chosen for the presenta- ; tion of the Second Division case to members of Parliament. The suggestions which have been made as a result of the conference were mbst cogently put by speakers who interested greatly and never wearied, and as Mr Wilford said at the end he was simply echoing, he was sure, the sentiments of his brother members when ho said that much had been learnt from the deputation, a new light having been thrown on the whole situation. "I have attended many deputations and listened to many speakers," said Mr Wilford. "but I think it can bo unanimously agreed that wo have never had a deputation which has put its views forward in a clearer way than this one which has so lucidly disclosed the vital problems affecting the members of the Second Division. Although we can give no expression of oninion as to what form of legislation will bo the outcome of vour conference, I must say that this has been an exceptional deputation—effective and instructive in the utmost degree. I and mv fellow-members are exceedingly grateful to the delegation from the conference for the instruction which has been given us.” This interview to which so much importance was attached meant the presentation of the principal remits passed hr the Second Division Dominion Conference, which has been sitting jn Wellington, to members of Parliament. When delegates from the conference and members of both Houses met together in a committee room in Parliament House yesterday morning, Mr Wilford was at, once voted to the chair, and the conference delegates proceeded to deal with the subjects that had been allotted to them. In opening the proceedings Mr Wilford mentioned that there were 65 delegates at the conference. There were 93 Second Division Leagues already formed in the Dominion, aful additional leagues were being constituted, representing altogether about 120,000''men of the division. Mr T. C. List (Taranaki) in submitting the remit passed by the conference in relation to separation allowances and pensions, explained that the principles of the British scheme had been unanimously approved of on account of their iustice and humanitarianism. The British scheme took into account prewar earnings and social conditions, and also assisted disabled -soldiers not only with money, but in other ways, so that they could bo restored back to health and . made useful members of the community. Moreover the British Act laid down provisions which wore absolute, and a man knew exactly bow he stood. In New Zealand at present that was not , the - case. ' The amount of a pension - to be given was left to the discretion of a board. In New Zealand the full allow-ance-for incapacity was 35s a week, with a 10s allowance when - an attendant was reauired. In England a totally incapacitated man could get (£3 15s per week with dll extra allowance for an attendant. The injuries were scheduled in the British scheme, and a flat i-ato for stated ininries was provided for with a minimum of 27s 6d for total disablement up to £3 15s. In tb© case of n man who lost the use of two fingers there was a minimum of 5s Gd. In. the , case of a man whose pension did not come up to pre-war earnings ho could claim an alternative pension up to the £3 15s. This financial scheme had been opposed in, some quarters in New Zealand as undemocratic but it was the work of Mr Barnes, Minister for Munitions—-tho great Labour member. If it was undemocratic it was scarcely likely to receive his support. It had been unanimously agreed tp by tho conference because it met tho needs more fairly and did more justice than, any other scheme. It aimed at putting men in as nearly as possible tho same position as they were before the war. The British plan included helping a. man to learn a new trade and a bonus being given to him at the end of his training. School fees were paid and free medical attention given to the incapacitated soldier and his wife and family. If the soldier . went to a sanatorium, for treatment tho State paid his expenses and saw that his wife and family did not suffer by , his absence. In New Zealand the pension couki be reduced or withdrawn. , altogether at the discretion of a board. , In England the Minister for Munitions, ; speaking in the House of Commons, said ho would rather increase than de- ' crease pensions. In ■ England there , was no difference whatever made between a single and a married man. In course pf time the single man might . get married and he should not be ] penalised because bo had injuries caused i by his service at the front. In respect ] of "unmarried wives" the British Government took a very broad view and . assumed responsibiity for their care up ] to a certain, point—also their children, j It considered that they should not be i thrown absolutely adrift upon the world. The conference wanted to leave as little as possible to the discretion of the Pensions Board. (Hear, hear.) The board was composed of men who were for. the most part really good men, but in time they became officialised, indifferent and callous and tho men of the Second Divi- 1 sion knew of instances of injustice done to tho men of the First Division. The ( conference stood for the principle of > pensions by right and by schedule —(hear, hear) —"fit to fight, fit to pension"—(hear, hear.) The Second Division men were making big sacrifices even t if they got tho maximum pension under 1 the British scheme. They were largely 3 men controlling businesses and in posi- s tions of considerable responsibility. They r wanted to feel that if they were- in- t capacitated their wives and children J would have justice as a matter of right a and not at the caprice of any particular, board. (Hear, bear-) It was there- v fore urged that the principles of the t British Act should be adopted with such f alterations as would be proportionate to fc the difference in the wages earned in )j England as against those earned in- New h Zealand. _ , _ . . .si Mr H. F. Toogood (Wairarapa) ad- n dressed himself to the question, of a w separation allowance to wife and sole A dependent of 6s per day. They did not w waht their wives to suffer the pinch c: of poverty or accent charity while b they were away. They could only do h their duty if their minds were content- sc cd. As to pensions on death for a w widow with children it was asked that bi ,23 3s should be allowed, and for a si widow without children £2 12s fid. oi There should be no reduction in ' the es schedule in relation to the number of tl children included in a family. So m much a head should be allowed. _ Ac- tr cording to the Government Statistician be the value of the sovereign since the be war had been reduced to less than 15s, St and it should be recollected that money th did not go so far as it used to. The of cost of living question was one that of must engage attention, and men on ed leaving camp should get not less than pa .£5 for an outfit. At present'only 30s tic was allowed. si< Dr W. F. Paterson (South Canter- hr bury' urged that the Government should ge provide the necessary machinery for ed

completing the medical examination of each class of the Second Division at least a month before the ballot ana two months before calling up- It was .further suggested that where a re-ex-amination took place and -a man was then found fit he should have three months to adjust his affairs. The New Zealand branch of the British Medical Association had intimated that its members were prepared to assist towards this end. It was further proposed that a maternity allowance of £6 should bo granted in cases where tho combined income of a husband and wife did not exceed -£506 a year. . Mr T. B. Slipper (Wanganui) made a great impression on the gathering by his arguments regarding equality of sacrifice—a phrase which he said had been much juggled with recently. Real equality of sacrifice, he urged, meant that the richer men should be first v£ all taxed until all were brought clown to something like a common level. He gave a very apt illustration by means of a diagram which especially appealed to Mr J. Vigor Brown, the member for Napier, who pleaded to be allowed the use of it to bring the logic home in the House. Unless the man with the most was first exclusively taxed, Mr Slipper urged, with much eloquence, his quota to taxation would be as nothing while the small man would have ail taken from him. “This is a question of life and death,” said Mr Slipper. "We stand here to-day looking through tho gates of death to Eternity. If we are not, then the Government lias no warrant for calling upon the men of this country to be divorced from their wives and children perhaps for ever. But we believe • there is such a warrant. AVe believe the emergency does exist. It is a very serious position. Tho dependents will make a great sacrifice. Sacrifice is not a mere question of giving, but giving more than you can afford. It can be judged only by what you have left after you have given. The time has arrived for the Government to reach out a bold hand in these matters- I believe the moneyed classes who have incomes to burn will gladly burn them if they n,re asked in a proper way. The men with money are simply waiting for a lead. If the Government does the proper thing it will find a ready response to the call for. the last man and the last shilling.” (Applause.) Mr B. J. Dolan iHawko’s Bay) spoke in favour p f more allowances for children and the provision of legal, assistance at the Appeal Boards where it was required ; also that provision should be made for soldiers exercising the suffrage while at the front.

Hr B. A. Armstrong, the president of the league conference, having addressed himself generally to the matters brought forward. Mr Wilford, on behalf of tho members of Parliament present; gave an assurance that full attention would be given to the various matters brought forward.

On the suggestion of. Mr Malcolm, M.P., it was arranged that Mr Wilford should act permanently as a chairman and Messrs Guthrie and Forbes (the House whips) as secretaries at any future conferences with representatives of tie Second Division League.