THAT VOUCHER.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXVII, Issue 5668, 16 August 1905, Page 5

THAT VOUCHER.

affidavits disclosed. PETITION FOR PUBLIC INQUIRY. CAPTAIN SED DON'S DENTAL. FURTHER DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT. In tho House of Representatives yesterday .afternoon Air Fisher asked for leave to present a petition from Alesstr J. Willis,' W. J. Larcombe, and T. W. West, of Christchurch, officers in the Civil Service. He tens proceeding u> read the contents of the petition, alien his action was called into question by tho Premier.

ilr Soddon said he understood ike mu nos signed to tho petition were tiioso of certain oilieers who Imd lakeu action in respect to a matter which had been before tho House. Tho House had ordered an inquiry to bo made, and lie therefore asked whether tins petition should proceed further. He did so under standing-order 315. He asked whether this petition, trenching as it did Hr Homes: You don’t now. Hr Soddon; 1 have a l ight to presume, and it is for Hr Speaker to say whether or not this objection is in conformity with tho standing-orders of the House. s Hr Taylor; Tho petition hasn’t been road yet. Why do you fear a petition that imsn't been read ? Hr Scddon thought members would recognise that tho course ho was taking was a proper one. Ho knew it would probably be said that the action ho was taking teas for tho purpose of preventing these petitioners obtaining tho right to have what they asked fur in their petition, but Parliament having directed tho Auditor-General to inquire and report, tho matter to which tic petition referred to was therefore sub .police, and should not bo dealt with in any way by Parliament until tho report of tho Auditor-General was received. The position was the same as though tho matter had been referred to a Parliamentary Committee. Hr Taylor rose to a. point of order. Tho Premier was discussing the character of the contents of the petition, which had not yet been read. Wan tho Premier justified in going into argument on a point of order t Tho Speaker said he was giving the Premier tho same latitude as lie would allow to other members.

Air Sedclon maintained that tho petition could not bo received, as it was contrary to tho standing-orders. Mr Fisher: You dou’t know what’s in it yet. Mr Seddon: I know sufficient from tho names given of officers of the department who have made tho declaration. I am giving reasons for intercepting tho petition. As leader of the House, I have a right to prevent an innovation which would bo dangerous in the extreme. I shall object to tho affidavits going to the Auditor-General. Air Fisher: I would like to ask whether the House is discussing the affidavits or the petition P Mr Seddon said that in a Court of law tho action of the hon. member that day would have been regarded as contempt of Court. Air Taylor pointed out that the Premicr had now made a statement that this petition contained affidavits. The petition contained no affidavits, and was the Premier, therefore, conforming to the orders of the House? The Speaker: As soon as the Premier sits down, I will give a ruling on tho point. Air Seddon considered that as the matter was sub judico, the same rule would apply in this case as though tho question had been referred to a Parliamentary Committee.

Mr Taylor pointed out that members of the Ministry had askod that these men should come out into the open, and immediately they did so, tho Premier tried to suppress them by every device in his power. The Premier rose to a point of order. Tho lion, member's statement was not supported by fact. It was a pure supposition. Mr Taylor said the meanest citizen in tho colony had a rid it to ask for protection, and yet the Premier would not hear the reasons why the petitioners desired to bo heard. The public would put their own construction on the Premier's attitude. This matter was not sub. judice, It was purely a departmental inquiry, and if it were held that because a matter had been referred to a departmental officer it should not he discussed, then the House would become absolutely pnraIrsecl, Ho a-sked whether members would he prepared to thus have their powers reduced. A great principle was at stake. If the Parliament was tho final Court of Appeal in New Zealand, then it must preserve its power intact. The Speaker, having read the petition, ruled that it was in perfect order. It simply asked that an inquiry which had been ordered by the House should be extended. Having ruled that the petition was in order, it was lor tho House to say whether it would proceed further with it or not. TUB PETITION. Mr Fisher then presented the following petition:— To the Hon the Speaker and Members of tho House of liepresentativos,— The humble petition of the undersigned Joseph Willis, William John Larcombe. and Thomas Walter West, of tho City of Christchurch, showeth: 1. That your petitioners are on the stall of the Civil Service of New Zealand, and are employed in the General Post Office in the City of Christchurch.

2. That your petitioners arc informed that your’ honourable House has appointed tho Auditor-General to hold an inquiry with reference to an alleged pavmont to Captain R. J. S. Seddon of a, 'sum of £7O or thereabouts for reorganising the defence stores at AVellington.

3. That your petitioners have reason to believe that they are likely to bo called as witnesses at such inquiry. > 4. That your petitioners believe that in the interests of all parties concerned such inquiry should be open to f l e press, and that the witnesses thereat should bo cross-examined bv or on behalf of Captain F. M. B. Fisher, a member of your honourable House. Tour petitioners, therefore, humbly prav that vour honourable House will be direct that the said inquiry shall be open to the preys, and t.iat all 'witnesses thereat may be ciofs-ox-nmined either by Captain i:. M. B. Fisher or by some other person on his behalf. ‘ . , , And your petitioners «> m duty bound will ever fray. (Signed) J. WILLIS. W J. LABCOMBE. T. W. WEST.

COI’XTKK PETITION. Mr Section juesenU’d Ok* following; petition from Captain Sothlon :

To the* tno Homo of Roprosensitives of ilie* Colony of Now /calami in Parliament atv-cmblod.— Tim poi of Richard John Spotswood ScTUm. of Wellington, Captain. liUmbix siiowelh:

That annexed hereto is a statutory do(.‘h:i;uion by mo denying the accuracy <*l the tipitcmont made by Mr F. M. IT Fisher, M.H.IT. that I had received a payment of between ~C7h and .IS'*, or any other -nm for rcorjcaiiwinj? the defence otOIVtS.

Your petitioner humbly prays tint, your honourably House will be pleased lo cuus> the said declaration to be considered in the conr.-e of any inquiry relating to the aliened payment. (Signed) IT J. S. SEDDON.

The Premier ;i«koil leave to ntlaeb to tho petition an aH'ulavii from Captain Scddon.

.Mr Hornes raised a point of order that- no documents could be attached to a petition. Mr Soddon explained that he desired the* affidavit to go to the Audit or-(Jeno-ral, Air Fisher had admitted that the aflklavks in Ids cave had gone to the Auditor-General, and bo (Mr Soddon) asked that the same course should be adopted in connection with the present affidavit from Captain Scddon. An hon member: "Why doesn’t lie send it himself? Mr Speaker upheld the contention of Mr Jlorrios. Air Scddon: Surely there can lx> no objection to tho course I propose to take. He then commenced to read tho document, hut hardly had 1m got two words out before bosh Mr Fisher and Air Taylor were on their foot with points of order to prevent continuance of tlie reading of the document. In the lull that followed the Speaker's ruling, Mr Soddon made another effort to read the affidavit, and Air Taylor again sprang to a point of order. He wanted to know if the Premier was the only privileged individual in the House.

The Speaker stated that the Premier was asking the House to give him leave to move the suspension of tho standing orders, so that the document could be attached to the petition. Hr Secldon explained that that was so.

Mr Wilford objected to documents being attached to petitions. He could see tlie opening it would give to certain members.

Mr Taylor: Yes: we would got our three affidavits in right away. Air Fisher: If tho Premier can road his affidavit, can 1 read my throe? Air Seddon then formally asked that the standing order, should ho suspended in order that tho petition might ho received with the declaration attached. Air Alassoy rose to make, a remark, hut, on being interrupted by Air AViiford, sat down, and said he objected to the permission asked for being granted. As one dissent is sufficient to prevent a standing order being suspended, the petition was put in without the declaration. THE DECLARATION. The following is tho declaration:— I, Richard John Spotswood Seddon, of Wellington, captain, do hereby solemnly and sincerely deelaro as follows: (1) During tho whole period of my employment in tho Public Service of New Zealand, I have never received from tho Imperial or New Zealand Government any payment whatever in Christchurch. (2) I have never performed any services in or about reorganising defence stores. (3) I have never received in Christchurch or elsewhere any payment of between £7O anil J6Bt), or any other sum for reorganising defence stores, either from the Imperial or New Zealand Government. (4) 1 have read the statement made by Air Fisher, M.H.R., with respect to a voucher for a payment to me of between £7O and .£BO, and 1 say that I never saw- or received or signed any such voucher or received any such, payment. (5) I have never at any time or at any place received any sum or sums of money whatever from tho Now Zealand or Imperial Governments to which I was not legally and properly entitled under the' terms of my engagement as a servant or officer of either of the said Governments. (Signed) K. J, S. SEDDON, Sworn before D. SI. Findlay, Solicitor. THE THREE AFFIDAVITS. Following are the affidavits contained in tlie sealed package already referred to:— ; I. I, William John Lareombo, bf the City of Christchurch, in New Zealand, a clerk in the General Post Office at Christchurch, make oath and say as follows: (1) That I am a dork employed in the General Post Office nt Christchurch. (2) That at, some date in the year ISO! there passed through my hands a vouchor made out in favour of K. J. S. Seddon for the xcorguu fixation of defence stores at Wellington. (3) Tiiat such voucher is for an amount exceeding .£7O. (4) That 1 showed the said voucher to Joseph Willis, a clerk in Hie Chief Clerk’s room at the Christchurch Post Office. (5) The amount of such vouchor was charged against the Defence vote, but I cannot remember which part of such vote, (G) That at the time I sh owed the said voucher to the said Joseph Willis we both, remarked on the fact of such voucher being made payable at Christchurch. (Signed) IV. J. LARGO AIRE. 'Sworn at Christchurch this 4th day of August, 1905 C. E. SALTER, A Solicitor of the Supreme Court. 11. I, Joseph Willis, of (bo City of Christchurch, Now Zealand, clerk in the General Port Office, make oath and say as follow-: (1) That I am a clerk employed in the Chief Clerk's office in " the General Post Office, Christchurch. (2) 'That some time during tho year 1904 I saw a voucher made out iu favour of R. J. S. Seddon for the reorganisation of defence stores at Wellington. (3) That sncdi voucher was for an amount exceeding £7O. (4) That the said voucher was shown to rue by William .1. Larcoinbe, a clerk employed in the Ciiief Clerk's room in the Post Office at Christchurch. (5) I distinctly remember that the amount of such voucher was charged against Defence vote, but which part of such vote I cannot remember. (6) That at the time the voucher was shown to me by the said William James Larcomnc we both remarked on the fact of such voucher being made payable in Christchurch. (Signed) J. AVI LETS. Sworn at Christchurch this 4th day of August, 1935 — C. E. SALTER, A Solicitor of the .Supremo Court of New Zealand.

nx. 1. Thomas Walter West, of the City of Christehureh. New Zealand, a elork in the tieneral Pnst OUiec, make oath anct ray as follows: (E That 1 am a clerk employed in the office of the Chief Postmaster at Christehureh. tl!) That some time during tho year UMI- i saw a vouchor made out in favour nf R. .1. S. Soddon lor reorganisation of defence stores. at That such voucher was for an amount exceeding .1170. (Signed) T. W, WEST. Sworn at Christchurch this •Ith day of August, 1905. C. E. Sailer, etc. ritKSS ASSOCIATION. CJ fit 1 S'lX’llt’RCH, .August. 15. lu explanation of the conflict ot testimony between tho Treasury' ofii■ vials and tho Christchurch Post "office clerks as to the alleged ‘'Soddon vouchor.’' it is suggested locally that, the voucher might have been made outhero, but payment refused by tho Audit Department, in which caso both side? would bo in tho right.