PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 849, 8 June 1888, Page 29

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

THURSDAY. MAY 31. The Council met at the usual hour, NOTICES OF MOTION.

Mr 0 DIVER gave notice to move next Tuesday, “That, in the opinion of this Council, in the present financial Btate of the Colony, it is advisable td effect eddnomy in the Education Department, and that, thorefofe the school ago should be raised to six years • and that the Education Boards should be abolished.” Mr HArt gave notice to rhovC on the following ddy; “ That, in the present depressed Condition of the finances, it is, in the opinion 'of tlii3 Council, advisable that a tax should be ilbposed upon all iotalisatots used on racecourses. RAILWAY RETURNS. Mr Waterhouse moved, “That the Railway Return No. 44, laid upon the table of the Council on the 29th May, be printed.” Agieed to. Mr Lahmann- moved, “ That copies of all letters, documents, and papers relating to the removal of the late members of the Greymouth Harbor Board bo laid upon the table.” Agreed to. EDUCATIONAL’ FRANCHISE BILL. This Bill was received by message from the House of Representatives, and on the motion of Mr Barnicoat was read a first time, the second reading being fixed for next Friday, the Bth instant. PAPER. The Attorney-General laid on the table a paper relating to the Midland Railway. CHINESE IMMIGRATION BILL. This Bill was considered in committee. Mr McLean moved an amendment in clause 5 to the effect that all Chinese shall be exempt from the Act who have left China before the 10th June next.—Mr Shrimski moved that the time be fixed at the Ist July. This further amendment was lost by the casting vote of the Chairman, the voting being 12 on either side. The clause, as amended, was parsed. Sir G. Whitmore moved the excision of clause 10, which deprived Chinese from . voting at anv election. The amendment was agreed to.’—On the motion of Mr Richmond a new clause was inserted, limiting tlie force of the Act only until the end of next session.—The amendment was carried on the voices, and the Bill was reported with amendments, the third reading being made an order for tho following day. CORONERS AMENDMENT BILL. This Bid was read a third time, and passed all final stages. The Council, at 4.45, adjourned to the next day. FRIDAY, JUNE 1. The Council mot at 2.30. ‘ MIDLAND BAILWAY. The Attorney-General laid correspondence on the table which had passed between the Agent-General and the Company on the subject of the new contract with the Midland Railway Company. SUSPENSION OP RAILWAY WORK. Mr Waterhouse gave notice to move on Tuesday :—“ That in the prosenfc state of tho finances of the Colony, the Council deem it inexpedient that the North Island Trunk Railway should be proceeded with, with the exception of that part of it lying between Woodville and Palmerston.”

TUBLIC RESERVES SALES BILL. Mr Buckley, on the motion being called on for the third reading of this Bill, moved that the Bill be recommitted, with a view to strike out that portion of the schedule referring to the Tinakori Ministerial Residence, He objected to the reserve being sold, but beyond this he objected to power being placed in the hands of the Government of the day enabling them to sacrifice a valuable property at a nominal figure. Mr Hart objected to the disposal of auy public land in Wellington, inasmuch as property was increasing year by year, and it would be difficult to repurchase the land in a little while should its resumption be deemed necessary by the Crown. After further discussion the Council divided on the question that tho words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, with the following result:—Ayes, 16 ; noes, 13. The motion for recommittal was lost.

The following is the division list:— Ayes, 16. —Captain Baillie, Messrs Barnicoat, Brett, Dignan, Holmes, Johnson, Mantell, McLean, Morris, Peters, Pbarazyn, Scotland, Stevens, Swanson, Waterhouse, Sir F. Whitaker.

Noes, 13. —Messrs Buckley, Fraser, Hart, Lahmann, Martin, Oliver, Poileu, Richmond, Shephard. Shrimski,Wahawaha, Wilson, Sir G. Whitmore. The motion for tho second reading was agreed to, and the Bill passed all final stages. CODLIN MOTH BILL. Mr Stevens moved the second reading of this Bill. Mr Shrimski opposed the motion, as the Bill if passed would merely provide billets for clerl s. Mr Richmond ridiculed the provisions of the Bill. Dr Pollen moved as an amendment that the Bill be read that day six months. The dobate on the motion of Mr McLean was adjourned for a fortnight. THE CHINESE BILL. The Bill was recommitted for the purpose of inserting certain words in clause 7, exempting the crews from Chinese warships from the operations of the Bill. Mr Waterhouse intimated hii intention of proposing a further amendment as embodied m anew clause, to the effect that ttio 1-ill, if it becomes law, should exempt all Chinese naturalised in New Zealaud. Mr Swanson intimated that when the Bill was recommitted ho should move a now clause, the effect of which conferred the same privileges upon the officers and orew of Chinese warships as were enjoyed by the navies of other nations. The Bill was committed and the amendments were agreed to. The Bill as reamended was reported and passed all final stages. INTERPRETATION bill. This Bill was further considered in com. mittee. The Bill was reported with amend* mentßj reas » third time, and passed.

The Council at £A3 adjoufned td Tuesday next;

TUESDAY, JUNE 8. The Couucil met at the usual hour; THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM. Mr Oliver moved that, iu the opinion of this Council, the financial condition of the Colony calls for strict economy, and that a considerable saving may be effected in the cost of primary education, without reducing its efficiency, by adopting six years as the minimum school age, and by _ abolishing the Education Boards. In bringing his motion forward, tho hon gentleman remarned that,\frhile he wassecOndtono one in his desire to see that a good, sound education should be imparted to the children of the Colony, he considered that it should be with the provisd that the coUntfy could afford it. Apart from the mere financial aspect of the question; he mentioned—and in this view he was borne Oiifc by the late Mr Matthew Arnold —that the age of six yeafs was quite early euotigh at which to commence scholastic instruction. Referring to the latter clause of his motion relative to the abolition of Education Boards, he was of opinion that it was unwise to entrust State funds to local bodies, as such bodies were not directly responsible to Parliament, and in addition to thi3, which he thought a valid objection, many of the Education Boards had recklessly abused their trusts by thoughtlessly spending money. The Attorney-General remarked that he had no objection to the motion, as it supported the view held by the Government. Mr Shrimski opposed the motion, principally on the ground that the .children whom it was proposed to deprive of the advantages of the Act were those whe contributed most of the money. He objected to the clause relating to the abolition of the boards, as principally the effect would be to centralise the working of the Act in Wellington. Mr Pharazyn supported the motion, chiefly on the ground that by the abolition of the boards a great saving would be effected, while the children would in no degree suffer by raising the school age. Mr McLean agreed with the motion so far as it. related to the abolition of the boards, as the effect would be to confer greater powers upon school committees, which would have tho beneficial effect of bringing parents in touch with the teachers. Dr Pollen acquiesced in the proposition that the school age should be raised, but lie entirely disagreed with Mr Oliver as to his proposition that the Education Boards should be done away with. He coincided with the statement that the boards had wasted their funds in certain instanoes, bub this was the fault of the administration of the Act rather than of the Education Boards. . Sir George Whitmore expressed his concurrence with that portion ot the motion having reference to raising the school age, but he was averse to any proposition for the sweeping away of the Education Boards. If the motion was divided he would cheerfully support the first clause. Mr G. R. Johnson disagreed with the motion entirely. He considered that parents should be compelled to send their children to school at even an earlier period than the Act made it imperative, and therefore he should like to see kindergarten schools for infants established by the State. Mistakes, he admitted, had been made in administering funds, but he did not attribute all the blame to these boards. He should like the Act to be reviewed with a view to creating scholarships iu the primary schools after the fourth standard, so as to enable successful competitor's to go up to the secondary schools, which should • be made in a greater measuro than they were dependent on the fees for their support. By these means a saving could be effected, as fewer masters would be required for the primary schools. Mr Barnicoat objected to the motion, as he failed to see how auy saving could be effected even supposing the school age were raised, and even supposing the boards were abolished. The dobato on the motion of the hon member was adjourned to the following day. administration act amendment bill. This Bill was read a first time, its second reading being made an order for Thursday next. naval and military forces discipline BILL. The amendments in this Bill, as agreed to by the House of Representatives, were concurred in. CHINESE IMMIGRANTS BILL. The Aitorney-Genebal moved the third reading of this Bill. Colonel Brett, believing that the Bill would embarrass the Imperial Government if it were passed, moved as au amendment that it bo read a third time that day nix months. After debate, and oa the motion of Mr Shepherd, the debate was adjourned to Thursday next. LAND TRANSFER ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

This Biil was, on the motion of tho Attor-ney-General, read a first time. Tho Council, at 4.40, adjourned to the following day. 110 USE ~OF IiEPELSENTATIVES. THURSDAY, MAY 31. The House met at 2.30. RUMORS. Mr Seddon wished to ask a question of the Premier, without notice, namely, whether there was any truth iu the rumor that the Minister for Public Works had resigned. The Premier said thero was no truth at all in the rumor. The Miuister for Public Works was absent from the House because he was busy with departmental work. (Cheers.) He might add that all the rumors going about referring to dissensions iu tho Cabinet w<-.rc moonshine. THE FIRST FINANCIAL STATEMENT. Mr Seddon directed the attention of the Premier to the forecast of the Financial Statement in the Christchurch Press of the 2Sth instant, and asked whether Ministers had communicated the particulars to persons outside ? j The Premier replied facetiously that it was the habit of the press to make guesses. He suggested that every newspaper in the Colony should be read in the House every morniDg. QUESTIONS. The Ministers, in answer to'quefetions, said

they had not yet decided as to a Recond shipment of Scotch Balmon ova.—The negotiations with the Midland Railway Company Were HoW, he thought, practically concluded. The Company had asked permission to take the line over hills in Some cases instead of through tunnels, Tho Government had aeofeded to this, stipulating that mineral rights should not bo affeoted. The Premier laid on the table correspondence m connection with the matter, together with a proviso to the contract embodying the coueession mentioned. CHINESE CONFERENCE. The Premier, in answer to Mr Seddon, said the Government would not bo able to send a member of the Executive to the Chinese Conference to be held in Australia on the 12th June, and were now in commanication with the South Australian Government on the matter.

BILLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :-Mr R. Thompson, the Whangarei Volunteer Drilishea iiill; the Premier, » Bill to repeal the Crown and iNatlve Lands Rating Act ; Mr McGregor, the Corse and Stteetbriar Eradication Bill. WAXWEI RIVER Yt’ORK3 BlL.tr. This Bill Was read a second time on the motion of Mr Kerr. OP AW A. EDUCATION RESERVE BILL.. This Bill was read a second timo on tile motion of Major Steward. INVERCARGILL CORPORATION EMPOWERING BILL. This Bill was read a second time oa the motion of Mr Feldwiok. There was a long discussion upon the motion, in the course of which Dr Newman moved that it be read a second time that day six months. NEW PLYMOUTH HOSPITAL BlnL. _ Mr Samuel moved the second reading of this Bill. The motion was opposed, and a debate ensued, in the course of which Mr Barron moved that tho Bill be read a second time that day six months. The discussion was still proceeding when the 5.30 adjournment was taken.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. ENDOWMENT RESERVES ADMINISTRATION BILL. Major Steward moved the second reading of this Bill. He pointed out that there were large areas of land in the Colony suitable for settlement which were practically locked up as endowment reserves, and the object of the Bill was to throw those lands open to settlement without inflicting any injury. The Bill provided for memorial from persons desirous of leasing any part of a reserve, and it the trustees of such reserve failed to grant a lease the application would be referred to the Governor, who, after proper inquiry had been made, could give the lease, and fix the area by proclamation. Mr Downie Stewart and Mr Bruce opposed the Bill on the grouud that it would deprive trustees of such reserves of all control of them. Mr W. P. Reeves was opposed to any proposal to have eduoation reserves administered by Ministers of the Crown. Mr Duncan supported the Bill, and did not think it would injure education reserves. Mr Fulton opposed the Bill on the ground that it would involve reverting to centralism. He also objected to the Bill for other reasons, considering that abuses were possible under it. A long discussion ensued, dealing panespally with the administration of reserves in Otago and Canterbury. On a division, the motion for the second reading was carried by 33 to 29. The Bill was referred to the Waste Lands Committee. CONTAGIOUS DISEASES ACT REPEAL BILL. Sir George Grey moved the second reading of this Bill. Dr Hodgkinson supported the Bill, and expressed regret at the levity with which the subject was treated by members, who had laughed while he was speaking. He was, he said, ashamed to be a member of the Houso, looking at the way in which such a serious subject was approached. Mr . Taylor wished to have the gallerios cleared, but could not get a seconder. Mr Levestam opposed the Bill, and combated Dr Hodgkinson’s arguments. Mr Pyke oppoied the Bill, and pointed out that the Act had been declared to be a boon to Auckland. The opposition to tho Act, ho said, was prompted bv a number of women who thought they could keep their husbands virtuous if it was repealed. He submitted that it was not tho poorer classes who patronised abandoned women. Messrs Fulton- Buxton, Hobbs, and Goldie supported the Bill. Mr Jones and Mr Taylor opposed the Bill. Dr Fitchf.tt, speaking against tho Bill, vigorously denounced the sentimentalism whichprompted the supporters of the Bill, and suggested that the gentlemen who protested so loudly against tho Act, as well a* against tho totalizator, knew very little of what they talked about. LTe ridiculed the idea that legislation could not restrict vice without encouraging it. Mr Moss supported the Bill. After further discussion the motion for second reading was lost, on division, by 37 to 20. Me Scdbie Mackes zie explained that he had voted with the ayes because ho had paired with Sir Harry Atkinson, but had forgotten to leave the Chamber. Mr B.4RRON wished to move that the debate be not reported in Hansard, hut, Dr Hodgkinson objecting, notice had to be i given of the mot>n. j The House rose at 1.5 a.m. j

FRIDAY, JUNE 1. Tl.c House met at 2.30. CUSTOMS DUTIES. Mr Samuel asked tho Government whether it was true that the Customs Department were that day refusing to issue goods on payment of the present duties unless the person receiving them agreed to sign a bond that he would pay any further duties that might be imposed. Thfe, he was informed, was being done, and he submitted that it would paralyse trade. The Premier said that under the Customs Duties Act of IBSS it was provided that whenever the Houso passed resolutions changing the tariff a bond might be required

of any meTShant taking goods out of bond that he would pay any additional duty which the House might impose after passing the Act giving effect to the resolutions. Itwas for the officers of tbs' Customs to enforce the law, and tho Government did notgive any instructions for it to foo done, in the present case, as soon »s tho Government; had tbe matter brought under their notice, orders were given to take no such bonds. (Hoar, hear.)

QUESTIONS. Ministers, in answer to questions, said they would do all they could to reduce the numbor -of text books used in schools Tho Government were putting surface-men. platelayers, and skilled workmen employed on the Greymouth-Brunner railway on the same footing as similar employ ds in other parts of the Colony ; and reductions in their wages had been made accordingly. —A Bdi was being prepared dealing with tbe leases which would fall in in 1593.—-They -would consider the advisableness of applying to colonial banks and other institutions whem borrowing money 7 , but would not give apledge to do it.—lt was nob proposed to abolish either of the ocean mail services, though it would be a question for consideration next year whether subsidies to both, services should not be discontinued.- If the San Francisco service was abolished, and the Direct Service paid for tbe extra mail on the present terms, there would be a saving of about £IOOO. —The Premier had said, in the course of an interview with Mr Graham, that he feared the Colony would have to take over harbor loans, but that for his part he would oppose it. He had refused to give any guarantee of a harbor loan. At present only infected fruit was prohibited, and every effort would be made to prevent any fruit which was infected from coming in. The Government would introduce this session a Bill to amend the Auctioneers Act.—No general order had been given for reduction of wages of men employed in railway workshops by Is a day, though a reduction had been made in some cases. A uniform rate of 9s a day was being fixed for carpenters, coach builders, and painters.

THE NEW LOAN. The Premier, in answer to _Mr Seddon, said the Government had advices from the loan agents that the minimum of the loan hid been fixed at £96 10s—(OJi !) —and tenders would be opened on the 7th June. The loan agents said further that the figures of the Financial Statement would no doubt have a good effect on the loan.

the discussion on the financial PROPOSALS. Mr Ormond said he had, upon consideration, come to the conclusion that it would be well, before proceeding to consider the tariff, to obtain an expression of opinion from the House as to the general features of the policy laid down in the Financial Statement, and with a view to doing that he proposed to move, at any stage which would suit the Government, a series of resolutions, the effect of which would be that the House should at once consider—(l) Whether the school age should be raised to six years, and £20,000 saved ; (2) whether it was necessary to continue subsidies ; and (3) whether the deficit should not be funded, as in previous years, instead of taxation being levied to deal with it. He asked whether the Premier would not facilitate a discussion on these questions first. The Premier said tho suggestion was a very good one, and would undoubtedly clear tho way for consideration of the tariff ; for if they went into the tariff before deciding what money they were going to raise, difficulties would undoubtedly ensue. Ha should bo very glad to facilitate the resolutions being moved, and suggested that they bo considered that evening. Mr Walker objected to the discussion being started until all papers were before tho Houso as to the retrenchment of tho Government, and so on. Until this data was before tho House, it would bo unfair to begin a discussion. He hoped that under the circumstances the Government would nob precipitate a discussion which would not save time or prepare tho way for the financial debate. Dr FITCHETT asked whether Mr Ormond’s motion was inspired by the Government. (Oh !) The Premier, who rose amidst deprecating cries of “No!” said it was not, but h» had had it under consideration whether ho should not move a similar motion so as to clear the way for the Hou3e. Mr Ormond theu gave noticq of motion as follows:—That with the view of reducing the taxation shown by the Financial Statement to be necessary if certain services are coutinued, this House is of opinion (1) that the school age be fixed at six years, so that the saving named by the Colonial Treasurer, namely, £25,0C0, may be thereby secured ; (2) that the payment of subsidies to local, bodies be abandoned iu order that a saving of the duty proposed to be raised on tea may be secured ; (3i that in the present circumstances of the Colony the raising of additional revenue to the extent of £55,000 by the imposition of a primage duty is inexpedient, and the deficit for last year should bo added to the funded debt. Mr Seddon (who moved the adjournment of the House) said the motion given notice of was a no-confidence motion. The Government’s action in accepting this motion was; unconstitutional. (Laughter.) Mr Scobiis Mackenzie asked the Premier to agree that the debate on the resolutions should be adjourned till Tuesday next. Mr Ballance did not think there was any inclination on the part of the Opposition to compel the Government prematurely to declare its policy as since the delivery of the Statement; but.they wished to know clearly' what that policy was. If the resolution were proposed by 7 a member of the Opposition it would be taken as a no-conlidsnco motion. Undoubtedly it aimed at the root of the financial policy of the Government—a motion which would probably change the impression which the Premier had told them was created in the London money market by the figures in the Financial Statement. They should have at once an intimation of what tho Government were going to do in the matter.

Sir GeCKige Grey asked whether there hr. A been auy communication between the Premier and Mr Ormond.

Mr Ormond said that after carefully considering the Financial Statement he came to the convlusica that he would give notice of

the motion ho had mentioned if he could do so without embarrassing the Government which lie would not do, he might say—hud had that morning told tho Premier ox his intention, and the Premier offered no objection whatever.

Mr Fish was not going to be led into a trap in any Way. He considered the tariff proposals oi the Government would meet with the approval of the country, and hoped the Government were going to deal fairly with them.

Mr Down'ieStewart said the Government "were prepared to abaudon all its polioy if the House wished it—anything so that thej could remain in office. He urged Miuisters to rise above a mercenary view of the question and maintain their polioy. The Premier twitted Mr Stewart with having been continually trotting from side to side ever since he had beeu in the Houso. But ha (the Premiei') was not going to be drawn ; he could take care of bis character and that of the members of the Government. Tae Opposition, he said, were intensely disappointed because the Government had risen above party in this matter. (No !) All this talk meant nothing but party of tho lowest style—(cheers)—but the Government would follow their own course, and would not be turned aaide by the taunts of Mr Stewart and Mr Seddou. Nor would they accept Mr Seddou as a constitutional authority. The Government would have these questions settled as early as possiblo—not in tho interests of party, of Protection, or tariff, but in the interests of the country. (Cheers.) He was willing to postpone the Tariff Bill if he was asked by the Opposition to do so, but in the absence of any- request from a leader, from tho mauy-headed monster the Opposition, he had placed the Bill on the Order Paper for that day. With reference to tho discussion on the tariff he was of opinion that the House should first consider what services they thought should be done without. He would be glad to postpone the discussion to suit the Opposition at any time ; all he wanted was that the House should in this matter rise above party. (Hear, heal.) Mr Smith gave notice that on the motion for the second rcadiug of the Tariff Bill he would move that tho Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr Lance said be was requested to ask the Government to postpone the financial debate till next week. He assured the Premier that there was no wish whatever on the part of the Opposition to hamper tho Government. Mr Beetham intimated that he should move, with a view to economy, that the San Francisco mail subsidy be discontinued on the termination of the present contract. The Pki aiier said he would agree to postponing the Bill till Tuesday. Mr Seddon having replied, the motion for adjournment was put and negatived ou the voices. The Premier’s motion, That the Customs Duties Bill, after its second l'eading. shall take precedence of all the business until disposed of, was postponed till Tuesday. CUSTOMS DU TIES BILL. This Bill was introduced by the Premier and read a first time, the second reading being set down for Tuesday. The usual adjournment was taken at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. CONTAGIOUS DISEASES ACT REPEAL BILL. Major Steward brought up a report from the Printing and Debates Committee to the effect that the debate on this Bill be not published in Hansard. The report reeommeudedthat ths House deal with the matter forthwith. Mr Barron moved that a direction be given in accordauce with the report. Sir .John Hall moved that strangers be excluded from the galleries. On division this was carried by 42 to 29, and the galleries were cleared.

The galleries were opened again, two hours later, the Houso having decided in the meantime that tho debate on Thursday night should not be .reported in Hansard. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. Tho Premier said he had had this order called on in order that it might be ascertained what the feeling of the Opposition was. One section appeared to be in favor of an adjournment and another was against it; and ho would move that the House go into Committee of Supply, leaving the Opposition to light it out among themselves what was to be done.

Mr Lance said he was again, requested that the debate should be adjourned. The Premier : Now we 11 see what the other section says. Mr Seddon, who on rising was greeted with ironical cheers, moved ati amendment on the motion to go into committee, to the effect that it was inadvisable to make alterations in the education system of the Colony except by Act. He complained that the On)) /sitiou as a party had not decided to ask for an adjournment. Mr Fish supported Mr Lance's suggestion, and said the lion member in making it represented the voice of,the Opposition,with the exception of perhaps three or four. Mr W. P. Reeves appealed to the Premier whether he did not' know tho member for Cheviot (Mr Lance) well enough to take him at bio word.

Mr Turnbull took exception to tho Premier's taunt 3 at the Opposition, and suggested that before the debate was over the hon I entleman might be glad of their assistance. The Premier considered the request for an adjournment n very reasonable one, and would accept it. He only wished ic to be understood that tho Government were not asking for delay. Mr Seddon explained that he hadinformed Mr Lance that ho dissented from tho pro-po-f.! to Dostpoue the debate. Mr J. McKenzie questioned whether the Government svas ready to go on, and pointed out that the details of the Government’s retrenchment were not yet before the House. It V7as then decided to adjourn the debate till Tuesday. administration bill. Tho amendments made in committee to this Bill wore agreed to, and the Bill was read a third time and passed. THIS CHINESE CONFERENCE. The Premier moved, That, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that a delegate should, on behalf of New Zealand, attend tlio

proposed Conference in Sydney on tho subject of ObinSseimmigration to Australia. 1 lliat it is also tho opinion of this House that the action taken by the several colonies ahould, as far as possible, bo uniform ; and that tho best solution of this embarrassing question would be a treaty between Great Britain and China, upon the basis of the treaty lately entered into between the United States of America and China. He explained that the motion was made in fulfilment of the promise he had given to tho House when ho brought down the Oldness Immigrants Aot Amendment Bill. . Mr Seddon - moved as &Q addition thaw m the event of the Conference deciding on taking tentative action pending the decision of the Imperial Government, the New Zealand representative should bring under notice tho desirableness of regulating the munbar of Chinese on goldfields. The Premier accepted this addition, which was agreed to. Mr Hutchison suggested that the word £t Australia ” should bo struck out, and the words " the Australasian Colonies ” substitutud. He also suggested that the provisions of the American treaty, which it was desired to adopt, should lie specified; and that in the event of legislation being considered necessary in tho opinion of the House, it was advisable that tho poll-tax should be increased to £3O. The Premier thought the resolution, as originally proposed, with the aineudmeub of Mr~Seddou, was sufficient, and he hoped Mr Hutchison would not press tho addition., tie thought it inadvisable to start with a threat. He was quite prepared' to instruct the Colony’s representative that, in toe opinion of tho Government, if it came to a question f)ho poll-tax might be increased to £3O. Mr Hutchison then withdrew Ins amendment. The resolution, as amended, was carried, and the House rose at 10.30.

TUESDAY, JUNE 5. The House met at 2.30. ESTIMATES._ The Estimates were received by message, and referred to the Committee of Supply. QUESTIONS. Miuister3 said, in answer to questions, that the potition of tobacconists for measures against the smuggling of tobacco, and for a tobacco license, was still under consideration, aud if possible the wishes of the petitioners would bo met by the Government. Ihey could not see their way to give free railway passes to persons summoned a 3 Supremo Court jurors. The Government were of opinion that the Judges v. ere not overpaid, and did not propose to make any reduction in salaries. The Judges/only received about half ns much in New Zealand as was paid in other colonies. - Steps would be taken to protect the salmon fry in the Aparima Ri ver —There were no blocks of land available in the Tauranga district for the formation of fishing settlements. —They did not their way to legislate in she directiou of making the person who lets a contract for the erection of buildings or other work responsible for the payment of wages of those workmen employed on buildings, &c., erected for him.—lt was not the intention of the Government to use the Hannalora light.—They could not allow officers administering departments the same privileges with respect to delayed telegrams as were given to members of Parliament. BILL INTRODUCED. The Waipawa Reserve Bill (Mr Tanner) was introduced and read a first time. CHINESE IMMIGRATION. Mr R. Reeves asked whether the Government had any information as to 60 Chinese having left Sydney for New Zealand ? The Premier said he had not. As the hon gentleman was aware, tho Bill dealing with Chinese immigration was now before Parliament, and the Government did not promise to act unfairly toward any Chinese who could prove tboy had left in good faith, unaware of the measure referred to. Mr Buchanan asked what would be done with respect to Chinese who bad left China for Australia under the same cireuraThe Premier said in that case they would not be allowed to land in New Zealand.

CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL. The Premiei/s motioD, that precedence be given to the Customs Duties Bill until it is passed, was postponed till next day. committee of supply.

Mr Lance, resuming the debate, urged the House to go as speedily as possiblo to the dir.cussion of financial questions which were of paramount importance. He moved that it was undesirable to anticipate the debate on the Customs Duties Bill by any amendment on the motion to go into committee of supply. The Premier regretted that the motion had been made, for be did not think it would at all facilitate the Customs Duties Bill. He suggested that the motion be withdrawn, in order that Mr Ormond’s motion might be discussed. Ho might also take this opportunity of stating what the Government intended to do. (Cheers.) With respect to thefirstoi Mr Ormond’s proposals, the Government made a proposal somewhat similar last session, though they did not think so much could be saved as was stated. They would aceopt that with some slight modification. The second' and third proposals, however, they would resist, especially the third—(cheers) —holding as they did that it was time the Colony made a beginning to pay off the deficit. The motion of which Mr Ormond had given notice should be discussed, he maintained ; the country wanted the points decided, which were those referred to. Mr Fish said the House objected to an ordinary member interfering ia this way (referring to Mr Ormond). Mr Ormond pointed out that whether Mr Lance’s motion was carried or not, the hon gentleman could not interfere to prevent his (Mr Ormond’s) right of taking the opinion of the House on any question. The hon gentlemen was now absolutely preventing any member trying to reduce the taxation of the people. That was tho proud position of the hon gentleman, as leader of tlio Opposition a position which would be condemned from one end of the Colony to tho other. Mr Saddon contended that what the pcoplo desired was to have the tariff settled as scon as-possible.

Major Jackson said tho intireilses In the tariff were made for revenue purposes alone, and if they could bo reduced at all, it was the duty of the House to reduce them.

Mr Tanner remarked that thero was no connivance on that side of the House with Mr Ormond (as had been suggested by Mr Seddon.) Mr Barron held that there should be the fullest and freest discussion possible ou the financial proposals of the Government. (Mr Stewart : At the proper time.)' Mr-Barron said this was the proper time. _ (Cheers.) He maintained that every facility should be given for discussion. Mr Samuel said be was reaily to give every support to the financial proposals, because he considered the Budget truthfully disclosed the condition of the country, and suggested Well-cOU?idoi-<.d remedies j add he deprecated any attempt, to lead the House off tho scout by such a motion a 3 that of Mr Ormond.

Dr FITCHETT said Mr Ormond caused surprise by appearing as the champion of the poor people—a uVe bo had never played before. He (tlio speaker), however, regarded the hon gentleman’s motion'as au iusidious attack on tile financial proposals. Recognising that there were times when party questions should give way to principles, he was willing to accept the whole proposals of the Government, though thero wete some he did not auprove, rather than see tho new tariff mutilated or lost.

Mr Turnbull spoke at some length on general financial questions, contending that private indebtedness was the real cause of the depression. A proposal that would have mot with tho support of tfio people would have been an increase of the property-tax, so that mortgagees ghoul i pay one-half per cent., which would give £175,000 a year. But instead of that, additional burdens were being plaeed < on the people whose lands were mortgaged. The House divided on the motion that the words “ Mr Speaker do now leave the chair in order that the Houso may go into Committee of Supply ” stand part of the question.

Ayes, 42—Messrs Allen, Anderson, Atkinson, Barron, Beetham, Brace, Buchanan, Carroll, Cowan, Dodson, Fergus, Fisher, Eultou, Goldie, Graham, Hall, Hamlin, Hislop, Hobb% Izard, Jackson, Lawry, T. Mackenzie, McGregor, Mills, Mitoheison, Moat, Monk, Newman, O'Conor, Ormond, Pearson, Rhodes, G. F. • Richardson, Ross, Seymour, Talwhanga, Tanner, R. Thompson, T. Thompson, Whyte, Withy, Noes, 35. —Messrs Ballance, Blake, Buxton, Cadman, Duncan, Feldwick, Fhh, Fitchett, Fitzherbert, Fraser, Grey, Grimmomi, Guinness, Hutchison, Joues, Kelly, Lance, Levestam, Lougbrey, Marobant, J. McKenzie, Moss, O’Callaghan, Parata, Perceval, R. H. J. Reeves, W. P. Reeves, E. Richardson, Samuel, Seddon, W. J. Steward, W. D. Stewart, Taylor, Turnbull, Walker.

Pairs : For—Russell, Valentine, Peacock, Pyko, Hodgkiasoa.. Against—Vogel, Kerr, Ward, J. C. Brown, Joyce. Amendment lost. In committee, the Premier said he did not know whether the Opposition wished to go on wish the Estimates. Mr Lance : Tos. Tho Premier moved that progress be reported.' (Opposition cheers.) Mr Seddon taunted the Government with weakness iu the attitude 'hey were assuming toward Mr Ormond’s motion. Ho moved to add to the motion for reporting progress the words “for tho purpose of considering the second reading of the Customs Duties Bill. ’ The Premier assured the lion member that the Government were going to stand by their proposal?, and that they would conduct their own business. Ho maintained that tho whole policy of the Government could bo discussed on Mr Ormond’s motion better than in any other way. —in answer to a question from Mr Turnbull, Sir Harry said ho did not take the motion as a no-coufidenco motion, because he had cloaily stated that if tho House wanted certain services tboy must* have taxation, leaving it to tho Houso to decide whether or not they ahould have those services.

Mr W. P. Reeves said the spectacle of a Government ashamed of its own oolicy was not an edifying one, aud accused the Premier of being a master in the art of using side-shows, and also of using “the hobnaiied boot.” Ho urged the Govern, meat to come to thtf main question whether or not the financial proposals of the Government (were satisfactory or not. He denied that the Opposition wished to deny Mr Ormond tho right to make a motion ; they wished to waste ho time. Mr Bkbtham held that it was most important that Mr Ormond’s motion should bo discussed at onco, as giving opportunity of discussing taxation and economy. Before any tariff of such a heavy nature as that now proposed was carried, he held that they should make all possible economy. For himself, bo should not be found supporting the tariff as now proposed, for-to do so would bo contrary to the views be had always advocated. Mr Downie Stewart raised a point of order whether progress could be reported, seeing th.at do business had been done, but tho Chairman ruled against this. The discussion was still proceeding when the adjournment was taken at 5.30. EVENING SITTING. , The Ilouso resumed at 7.30. COMMI rTEE OK SUPPLY. The discussion on the motion to report progress was resumed by Mr Seddon, who spoke at length, and then received an assurance from tho Premier, in answer to a question, that Mr Ormond’s motions should be dealt with as quickly as possible. Sir George Grey then arose, and after remarking that I he Premier had given thorn an opportunity of speaking on any subject they liked, be went on to deal with the Chinese question, alluding to tho Bill recently passed by the House as a piece of consummate folly, lie thou proceeded todiscuss tlje laud question and education, when Mr Scobie M ackenzie rose to a point of order, submitting that the hon member was not in order in speaking over a wide range of subjects. The Chairman ruled that Sir George Grey could proceed, but asked hon members to keep more strictly to the question of reporting progress. After’ somo further discussion, ' In the

course of which a motion by Mr Seddon that the Chairman leave the chair was lost, progress was reported. The Premier moved that the House go into Committee of Supply again immediately. Mr Seddon moved that the House go into Committee of Supply after the second reading of the Customs Duties Bill.

The Premier said he was not going to discuss the question with tho hon gentleman. Ho had told him that almost within an hour the House might go on to the Customs Duties Bill, and already they might have been two hours nearer it if ic hod not been for Mr Seddon's obstruction.

Mr Samuel hoped Mr Seddon would withdraw his amendment, seeing that the Government were decided on the question, m order that the House might go at once to tho discussion of the tariff. Mr Seddon agreed to take a decision on the voices, and his motion was lost. Tho motion that the House immediately go into Committee of Supply was carried. mr ormond's motion. - Mr Ormond, rising on the motion to. go into Committee of Supply, moved the motion of which he had given notice. He prefaced his remarks by expressing regret that certain hon gentlemen were going to oppose the motion simply because ho moved it. He proceeded to refer to the call for retrenchmoutlaat session, and he considered the Government deserved the greatest consideration for the manner in which they had carried out that wish ; and while he regretted to find himself called upon to move a motion part of which the Government would not accept, he did not consider himself in any way debarred irom moving such a motion. He wa3 encouraged to move this motion by what was practically the invitation for the House to express its opinion on various subjects in the Financial Statement, He might say that he did not agree with the Government upon the question of the abolition of education boards, and would himself only propose to raise the school age to six years. Dealiug first with this part of his motion, Mr Ormond said that as it had been fully argued last session t e should not go into it so thoroughly then. He claimed, ,however, that the force of argument was on the side of those who claimed that the school age could be raised without injury to education. He affirmed that £23,000 could be Baved by increasing the age, and pointed out, further, that if the ago was increased there would be a great saving iu school buildings. Numbers of children would than be able to get into sohools who oould not at present do so. For he did not agree with a paper lately issued by the Department stating that there were sufficient school buildings in the Colony ; if there were they were very unevenly distributed. (Hear, hear.) Ho strongly disapproved the abolition of boards, and contended that all objections to them could be met by classifying teachers for salaries, and regulating boards’ expenditure. What, he asked, was to replace the boards? He felt satisfied that a proposal to abolish the boards would not be carried if it was made. With reference to the second proposal, be wa3 of opinion that loeal bodies had pretty well made up their minds that they would not got subsidies this year; and if they had - not, he thought the time had ccme when subsidies should he stopped. That would be the best thing that could be done for local government. Once let it bo fairly understood that the money that appeared to be obtained so easily only came from the people’s own pouketa, aud there would speedily be a reform of local government. He deemed that it was a justifiable course to charge subsidies to local bodies to the Customs revenue of the Colony, and said that if it were deoirabie to continue subsidies it would be far better to do away with some of the useless works in tho Loan Bill and take them (the subsidies) out of borrowed money. He did not say that should be done ; but of the two alternatives that was the belter one. They rea 1 of seventeen miles of railway being finished lately, and two trains a week were to run ou it. What did that mean ? Why, that money had been wasted. (Cheers.) Now he came to a proposal which he knew would not meet with the same favor, and that was in reference to the proposed primage duty of I per cent. He held that ic was not advisable to levy a duty of this kind out of “ mawkish sentimentality.” In conclusion, Mr Ormond said that in the present condition of the Colony he strongly disapproved giving the Treasurir a re'C engino of taxation—an engine, he warned the House, which would become cumbersome aud troublesome (referring to the primage duty). He contended that persons who claimod to be Protectionists could not support thi3 tax on account of their principles : this was a special tax for a special principle. As regarded Protection and Free trade, ho belonged to noitker party, and he was surprised to find gentlemen calling themselves B'roet-raders in a Colony situate as New Zealand was. (Cheers.) On the other side, gentlemen who arrogated to themselvss the exclusive right of representing the people, plainly said that they would even support what they did not believe in, in order to gratify their belief in protection. Mr Ormond concluded by moving—That, with tho view of reducing the taxation shown by tho Financial Statement to bo necessary if certain services are continued, thi3 House is of opiniou—l. That the school age be fixed at six years, so that the saving natnod by the Colonial Treasurer, viz., £25,000, may bo thereby secured. 2, That the payment of subsidies to local bodies be abandoned, in order that a saving of the duty proposed to bo raised on tea may be secured. 3. That, in the present circumstances of the Colony, the raising of additional revenue to the extent of £58,000 for two years, by the imposition of a primage duty, io inexpedient, and the deficit for last year should be added to the funded debt. Mr Cowan seconded Mr Ormond’s amendment.

Sir John Hall asked whether opportunity would be given of voting separately on the three parts of the motion. The Speaker said the first motion wofild ho that he leave tho chair, which, if carried, disposed of Mr Ormond’s motion. If it was lost it would then be competent for any member to move that these several resolutions be taken separately. Tho Premier thanked the hon member for his moderation, and expressed regret that

the proposal to take fais proposals a» * substantive motion had not been accepted. (Hear, bear.) With respect to the first part of the motion, he explained tbaft the Government had not taken action on the education question ia view of tho opinion fch® House expressed last session. He ridiculed Mr Ormond’s suggestion that local bodies should raise their own rates for local works, maintaining that all people were concerned in roads and other works, and t-hat they could only get at all people through the Customs. No local body, he protested, could be set up which would able to raise all rates for its own works. As to paying subsidies out of loan, why that would be doing exactly what the han gentleman objected to. Coming to tho chird part of the motion, lie denied that the Government were influenced by mavrkißh sentmentality. They considered that a beginning should be made to pay our debt*, and the sooner the better, and he boggtcl tho Houso to take that view also.-'"'He asked them also to consider earnestly the best step to be takeD, and to recognise that they must in future contrive to meet their liabilities and leave a margin for expenditure, (Cheers.) Mr Ballance denied that the Opposition had tried to burke the motion, and said that they wished these questions - fairly decided, but the motiou did not meet them fairlyHe pointed out that the tea duty was aot intended to meet the whole of the local subsidies, and only amounted to j£38,000, whereas the subsidies were £64,000. ’ (Mr Ormond interrupted that the -increased tea duty was £57,000.) With, respect to education, Mr Ballance contended itfiat the House had practically given the boards an assurance of permanency last year, and would bo breaking faith now if it, abolished, them. Ho contended that country-schools would bo injured if the school age was increased, and asked how it would act for those'Tschbols to have to depend on the Government in Wellington for consideration Hi? maintained that the opinion of the- House was that before boards were abolished some other bodies should be -appointed to take their places ; for be claimed that the boards had well education* He warned bon' members that if they supported centralisation of primary education they would set a precedent for centralising secondary education. He maintained that Mr Ormond had not made out a case for any of his proposals. People were leaving the Colony every day for want of employment — because ' industries which would flourish were not encouraged ; and he-maintained that the Government- were to be commended for the boldness with which they had brought down a Protectionist polioy. He did not say their proposals could not be amended, but that they were acceptable to Protectionists—the bone and sinew, after all, of the Colony. Mr Grimmond briefly expressed his intention of opposing the motion moved by Mr Ormond.

Mr Marchant was in favor of raising the < school age, and to the second part of Mr Ormond’s motion, but disapproved the third.

At this juncture an adjournment of half an hour was taken for supper. On resuming, . Mr Beetham saiil that, as he was pre-

vented from moving the previous' question, he should, on behAlf of a large:,.Bectipn of the House who were dissatisfied with the position taken up by Mr Ormond, move that the House adjourn.

The Speaker said that if the adjournment was carried Mr Ormond's motion and that for Committee of Supply would disappear from the Order Paper. On division ithe motion for adjournment was lost by 48 to 42. Mr Seddon opposed Mr Ormond’s motion. , Mr Fulton intimated bis intention of voting against the motion for Committee of Supply, in order that Mr Ormond’s proposals might be considered seriatim. The House divided on the motion that Mr Speaker leave tho chair in order that the House might go into Committee of Supply. Ayes, 53.—Messrs Atkins cn, Ballance, Blake, Buxton, Cadman, Duncan, Feldwick, Fergus, Fisher, Fish, Fitchett, Fitzherbert, Fraser, Goldie, Graham, Grey. Grimmond, Guinness, Hamlin, Hislop, Hutchison, Jones, Joyce, Kelly, Kerr, Lance, . Levestam, Loughrey, McGregor, J. McKenzie, Mitchelson, Moat, Monk, Moss, O’Callaghan, O’Conor, Pearson, Perceval, R. H. J. Reeves, W. P. Reeves, E. Richardson, G. F. Richardson, Ross, Seymour, Smith, W. J. Steward, W. D. Stewart, Taiwhanga, Taylor, T. Thompson, Turnbull, Walker. Noes, 22.—Messrs Allen, Barron, Beetham, Brace, Buchanan, Carroll, Cowan, Dodson, Fulton, Hall, Hobbs, Jackson, Macarthur, Marchant, Mills, Ormond, Rhodes, Seddon, Tanner, R. Thomson, Whyte, Wilson. The amendment of Mr Ormond was therefore negatived. _ The House went into Committee of Supply and'immediately reported progress ’ r CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL. The Premier said he wished to get the opinion of the House on this Bill, and moved that the second reading be made an order for next day at 2.3o.—Carried. The House adjourned at 11.45.