NEW ZEALAND LIFE INSURANCE ASSOCIATION.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 746, 18 June 1886, Page 23

NEW ZEALAND LIFE INSURANCE ASSOCIATION.

ANNUAL MEETING OF POLICYHOLDERS. The annual meeting of policy-holders in the above Association took place in the Athenaaum Hall on .Monday night. The Board of Directors occupied the platform, and Sir Julius Yogel presided. About 309 persons were present, including a large number of members of the House of Representatives.

Mr I). M. Luckie (general manager) read j the advertisement calling the meeting, also the ■ minutes of last annual meeting, and the ( supplementary meeting held in June last. ' The Chairman announced that Mr Nicholas Reid would retire as a nominated member or ; the Board, but would retain office until his .successor' was: appomted-, He then wad' the result of the election consequent- o«r fffce retirement of Mr G. S. Graham, who offered himself for re-election. The reported as follows Mr G. V. Shannon, 3071 votes; Mr G. S. Graham, 1428. He (the Chairman) therefore declared Mr Shannon duly elected. (Applause.) In moving the report and balance-sheet, Sir Julius said they would find that during the year 4079 policies had been completed, as against 3599 during the year 1884. The sum assured was J. 859,709, as against LBOO.OOO during the previous year. The accumulative fund showed an increase of Ll29,2*>S. ne thought that no similar institution at such a stage of its existence could show such results. There had been an increase of working expenses during the year, but that was partly due to expense incidental to the quinquennial mvestication, and to the alteration in the constitution from a Government Department to its present ; form. He thought it scarcely possible that the Association could be worked so cheaply as it was when solely in the hands of the, Governmeat. The.expenditure during the Lost} ear had been L 25.000, as compared with G2OJJOO per annum foi the . two previous years. The Board were lending a considerable amount of J money 'on mortgage on freehold security. They obtained larger interest on such loans, but the loans were only for short periods, and therefore they ought not to be thought j ve>'v profitable investments, considering that there was every reason to believe that rates would fall during the next few ! years. He was of opinion that Governnient investments would be found to pay - better, taking into consideration the expenses of negotiating these small loans. Lhe Industrial Branch of the Association had been dis- - continued as far as new business was concerned. No person had been asked to give up his policy, as had been reported in some of the newspapers. These reports had arisen in consequence of mistakes having been made by one or two agents, which had since been rectified by offers having been made to rein- ] state in their position those who had suffered • by the mistake. He desired to utterly disclaim • that the institution had been put to any political use. He stated that m reply to the Accusation which had been bandied about the country. Members of the Board would tell > them that the accusation was an utterly false : one. The institution had had to contend - against a large number of similar institutions pushing business. The Board had also pushed business, but not to an extent that was likely to hurt the Association. There had been many references made during the year to Mr Driver s ■ appointment, and he thought it desirable that he should explain how that appointment was • made. It was felt that some radical change ■ was required, for the business in the district had fallen off lamentably as compared with smaller districts. The Board came to the conclusion that if they could secure the services ot a well-known and able man of business it would be most desirable to do so, the qualification principallv desired being that the person appointed should be able to speak with authority as to the position and purposes of the institution as compared with others. I he great difficulty they had to contend with was rebutting the statements of a derogatory arid felonious nature that were being constantly made about the institution by agents for other institutions. Mr Reid and himself were appointed a committee to inquire into the matter, and they came to the conclusion that an able man of business was wanted, and after soma consultation they agreed that if Mr Driver would accept the appointment upon anythin" like terms, they would be justified in recommending him as a. most desirable. person to appoint. After some weeks Mr Driver accepted on the terms of a saiary of LSOO a year with a commission which would give him. during the first year L2OO, leaving it to luo efforts afterward:! whether he could get a larger salary. This recommendation was agreed to hir ft committee of himself, Messrs Graham, Shannon, and Keid, brought before the Boa.'-d and endorsed. The manager stated ghat the over-riding commission ot halt-a-c-own per cent, on net new business would give a salary of L2OO per annum,. He might say that this over-riding commission was paid in all the districts, and in some places it went up to ten per cent. The appointment was accordingly made.. It transpired nevt day, however, that a mistake had been a-tf.de and that the 2s 6d commission was only 3?Tculated to yield L4O or L. 50 a year. I he question then arose. whether, to carry out the conditions made with Mr Driver, they should increase the over-riding commission, or simply give a guarantee for the one year. The Board consideration, decided to guarantee that it would yield L2OO a year. These were the conditions under which Mr Driver was appointed, and he might say the appointment was proving eminently. satisfactory as far as concerned the manner, in which the business had been overtaken. Sir Julius went on to disclaim any political or friendly purposes in making the appointment. He was convinced, he said, that the appointment would be a good one. Mr Driver was an exoaedingly able man, whose services m such a s?strict were very desirable. With regard to the purchase of buildings, about which a great deal had been said, that was discussed at the last annual meeting, and he had nothing lo add to what he said on that occasion, that if the business was to be carried on in the present corporate character, it was necessary to have fine buildings in the cmet centres so as i.o bs in a position to contend wiWi oilier similar institutions. It was a well-known fact that in large institutions, whether banking, insurance, or commercial, it did pajto . hhi'e large buildings, Now, as regarded other matters, he did not know that it was necessary for him to refer to them at that stage. The question of altering the constitution of the Board would arise later in the evening, ana he mi'dit be permitted to make some remarks then upon that subject. He had to. announce that the vacancy caused by the retirement of Mr Shannon would be filled —the formalities had not yet been gone through—by Mr JohnDuthie, of Wellington, who would be recommended to his Excellency the Governor. . He might also mention that it was not likely. that the actuarial returns for the last quinquennial period could be obtained from the actuaries before the end of the present session. I he Board had therefore asked the Government to allow the division to be made on the recommendation of the actuaries without prior reference to the Asst-mbly, so that a year im D ht be saved in making the division. Ho w ouici be happy to answer ary questions ; and he moved the adoption of the report and balance-sheet. Mr H D. Bell seconded the motion. Mr George Fisher said that some few remarks on the Chairman’s speech were necessary. He pointed out that many people objected to a member of the Board discussii g fully the business of the Board. To do »° held to be an unheard-of thing—the member of a directorate explaining the operations of the Board to the shareholders. He remamea that

at a recent meeting of the Australian Mutual Provident Society the whole transactions were discussed in the fullest manner possible, and Sir Archibald Campbell had argued that everything the Board had done should be explained in the light of day. In this Association they had to guard against the danger of .persons interested in the welfare of other institutions who would attempt to force an adverse decision on The ■ meeting. Mr Fisher said in regard to the purchase of sites, that granting the necessity for fine buildings, certainly we had spent enough money to buy them, but where were they ? In Dunedin they ha spent L 35,500 for a site, which was paying per cent. Was that profitable? Then the property was not in such a position that it could be dealt with. It was encumbered byleases for five and seven years. Where was the fine building in Auckland ? Mr Bell said last year that he believed that the purchase was a good one and the price reasonable, and that thev could get more than they paid for it. Well, there it was—it cost L 19.000, and they had lost LIOOO on it in interest during the year. The Wellington purchase was an admirable one, for they could always get the money back. But what about Christchurch. He was partly responsible for that purchase, he admitted; but the property had been leased back to the vendors on terms that would yield for five years 41 P« cent., and for twenty years s'l per cent. Y\ hat was the use of the outlay, then ? It was said that the institution had not been used for political purposes. Well, let that be put a. . Then it was said, “ let us consider it as a business matter.” Well, these weie either political . undertakings, or they were bad. business transactions. As to Mr.Dnver s distnc . : business had fallen off since that gentleman tookoffice(AVoice: Oh!) Well he would ; give the figures. The new business done bj Mr Clapcott in his first three months uas L 39,012; and by Mr Driver m bis first quarter, L 36.150. The lapses werej-Mr Clapcott’s quarter, L 52.805 ; Mr Driver s Hl7-084. Following on the Driver appointment there i was a net decrease in the first quarter s .Cam j terbury business of L 2850. Then he pointed out that they were retaining Mr Clapcott as well as Mr Driver, and an increase of DIDO per annum was what it cost them, to do less business in the first quarter. He gave ; these figures at Dunedin, and on the next flay a letter appeared in the papers, from Mr Bell . saying that he had given Mr Fisher an oppor- * tunity, in the most chivalrous manner, of cor recting his statements by explaining that he (Mr Fisher) had not taken into account the 1*61,000 net, proposals taicen by Mr * Driver in the first quarter. Well, as to ■ Mr Bell’s letter, they knew what Dogberry said. Mr Bell was writing about what he clicl not understand. He proceeded to quote figures to show that Mr Clapcott's business mproposals had been very much larger than Mr Driver s. Now would thev believe after that, with thee figures at the disposal of any member of the Board, that they could .be told that the business was lamentably falling oft in Mr Drivers district when that gentleman was appointed . He did not ask them to believe any statement ot his : what he said was based on figures regularly received from officers of the. Association. He had gone to a great deal of pains to explain the operations of the Board throughout the Colony, and he went to Dunedin because he received a very influential requisition to do so. It was possible to place a view before those people which, he thought, would prevent the management going back to the Government. The Wellington surrenders had gone up from LSOOOto I*lo,ooo, and the Canterbury surrenders had also gone up. But be pointed out that it was not at all to follow that a Board, differently constituted, would show the same results. (Applause.) ~ Mr H. D. Bell did not propose fcci fodow Mr Fisher into personal matters, nor did he agree that it was right to enter into a detailed account of votes, etc., of the Board, althou 0 h he agreed that the business should be explained. With regard to the purchase of sites and Mr Driver’s appointment, he was no party to either of them, but he accepted the responsibility of what the Board did, and he wai there to defend it. The present Board had nothing to do with the Wellington or Dunedin purchases. They were purchased by the Government before the institution was taken over. Then what was the use of crying stinking fiffi in this way? He had objected to Mr lishers remark about the Dunedin property, and he remarked that the people who had leases would not surrender them—-they were so satisfied with them. As to the Christchurch property Mr Fisher had been inaccurate in saying that L 11,500 was paid for it. The Association bought two properties—one for 1*10,250 and one for L 1500.. The first was the one leased back, and Mr Fisher assisted in the negotiation. (Mr Fisher denied this.) Well he withdrew that. As to the second property, it had 20ft frontage on which they would build, and get two rooms from the other property thrown in. As to the Auckland building, he repeated what be had said. It was m the best position in Auckland, and from plans laid before them they would make a large income from it. As to why it had not been built upon, he referred the meeting-to the Chairman of the Building Committee (Mr * isher). With regard to the Driver appointment Mr Fislier had only included completed policies in his figures. ( Mr Fisher said the Canterbury business had depreciated some L 29.000, and as Mr Drivers business fell off less, it was clear that the balance was with Mr Driver. He had explained at Dunedin that the Board had not appointed a general manager to canvass tor new business—no manager could do tnat —but to save the lapses, see that premiums were collected and surrenders avoided. Further, they got in Mr Driver a man acquainted with the district. He ventured „o say that the members would have to congratulate themselves on the appointment, and would thank the Board for it. . ... Mr N. Reid said when he was on a visit to Dunedin, Mr Clapcott, with tears in his eyes, 1 asked to be relieved —he was physically unfit fc °Mr r Fisher : It is only fair to Mr Calpcott to sav that he denies all this. . 'Mr Reid said there was a letter in the office containing Mr Clapcott’s resignation, he considered Mr Driver’s appointment was a good one. Although he (Mr Reicl) accepted responsibility on the matter, he condemned t.ie Auckland and Christchurch purchases. He alluded to another member of the Board, who had said he voted for the appointment, and was sorry for it. (Applause.) Mr G V. Shannon said he had not intended to speak, but Mr Reid had drawn him out. He did not forget that he was addressing a very large constituency whose just demands no Parliament could refuse. He thanked them for electing him. He had said that he was sorry he had voted for the Driver appointment. He explained the circumstances in connection with the commission proposed and the subsequent guarantee proposal. To the latter he had objected—he resisted it to the utmost. . : Mr Dargaville, M.H.K., said it did not , I appear in the report what the total amount : J assured was—that was, the total for which the • I Colony was responsible. * I Sir Julius Vogel said it was stated as ; 1 LO, 400,000.

Mr Hursthouse asked whether Mr Driver gave his whole services to the Association ; and did the Association sit rent free in the I unedin building ? He did not think Mr Fisher had been just in comparing a quarcer ot Mr Driver’s to a whole year of Mr Clapcott s. It was quite possible that the business done byMr Driver iq the first quarter would be less. He believed there would have been not half as much calumny against Mr Driver had he not been connected with the. Chairman. Sir Julius Vogel said Mr Driver’s whole services were given, but he took three months to dissolving his business. He would speak on the Dunedin building later on. . There was no association whatever between himself and Mr Driver. They had always been good friends, but when he came to the Colony- Mr Driver was closely allied to the leader of the Opposition—(“ No.”)—and strongly opposed his (bir Julius Vogel’s) entrance into politics. tie wanted to promote an alliance between Major Atkinson and Mr Ormond. The Chairman again spoke in defence of the appointment. Mr Fisher denied that he had compared the whole year with Mr Driver’s first quarter he compared the two quarters. Mr Shrimski, M.L.C., said there were no scares profc up in 1885 as there had been lately. Mr Fisher said there were no purchases in 1885. , , . Mr Bell said all the purchases were made in Travers thought the state of things they had seen, that night showed the evils of the present management; and it appeared to him to indicate necessity for change either by reverting to the Government or by the policyholders taking it in their own hands. He was one of those who believed there was sufficient business ability in the policyholders to manage their own affairs, as was done in other societies. The business would be better done, the policy--holders would have more confidence m an institution they managed themselves. He aid not care whether or not the Driver appointmerit was a good one. He heard Mr Driver had not been successful in his own business, but such a man might make a good servant.- Mr ■ Travers deprecated, however, the discussion in this way of the appointment, at any rate . until they knew by more than three months j : trial whether or not the appointment ; would be a good one. He could not see whylarge sums should be spent in magnificent ■ offices, where no doubt a few rooms would be as useful. He knew- something of the history of these purchases, and one of them, he thought, if it was investigated, would look a little fishy. However, as the Board was at present, they could not go into these matters. Before they entered on these discussions, it behoved members to consider how the Association should be managed. He was in favor of the policyholders having the management. As to the argument in favor of the control reverting to the Government, he said a guarantee was nothing to substantial accumulated funds. If he was asked whether the Association had been used for a political purpose, he should say yes, it had. It had been used for such purposes by successive Governments. Why, on that platform was the proof of that,- in a gentleman being there who knew nothing whatever of insurance. The Governments had used the institution for political purposes, and—small blame to them for it—Governments must use patronage. He again repeated his argument in favor of an accumulated fund and to deal with the question of management at once. A Mr Thstin asked how LIOOO had been spent in postage. He understood the Association had free postage. Sir Julius Vogel said that was the computation made for the year. , In answer to Mr Pearson, Sir Juluis V ogel said a large building w-ould be erected in place of the present one in Wellington-, and arrangements were now being made in that direcIvlajor Atkinson : Is the Board committed to that ? , , Sir Julius Vogel : N o, the tenders have not been called. . , . ... Major Atkinson : Then, sir, I shall put it to the meeting at the proper time that the present building he not pulled down. Sir Julius Vogel did not think it would be competent so to move, but he would accept a motion tacked on to the report. Major Atkinson said he would do that, then. It appeared to him that the question of buildin"s was a most important one. He considered the Wellington building would suit them for the next twenty years, - except perhaps for a strong room. But if they put their beautiful building up, they would find that they had made nice calculations on • paper, but that the dividends did not come out He objected to Mr Travers’ morality ; and he denied that in his management the Association had ever been used for political purposes. He had refrained from appointing a manager for many years because he could not get a suitable man. , ]yj[r Travers said lie had said that it was used occasionally for political purposes. Major Atkinson said that was a different stand. As to the guarantee, he considered it was the essence of the concern that the naoion was at its back. If they gave up that guarantee, thev would indeed be selling- their birtnri"ht for a mess of pottage. His reasons for assisting to transfer the management to the Board, were that the . officers should be placed on a different footing, and that a Board could be appointed for the investment of the money. He pointed- out the difficulties of the Government making those investments. There was a great deal to be said in support of reverting to the Government management. The Dunedin and Christchurch purchases, for instance, would never have been made if Parliament had had to consent. On the other hand, a Board was needed for investments. He was in favor of three nominated and three elected members, only the elected members to be allowed to be members ot Parliament. He did not agree that the Government should nominate the Chairman ; the interests of the Government were already well-protected by the Act. With regard- to the “riot” and “wrangle” that had been going on, it had led to a great many surrenders in his dist-ict. He himself meant to keep m the Association, and would be glad to increase his risks. But what had done the damage was the purchases and appointments. As to Mr Driver it was impossible to say now whether that was a reasonable appointment. The purchase of sites was another thing—it showed the direction in which the business was to be conducted—their business was to be conducted by flaring advertisements and fine buildings. He objected to the purchases, not necessanly because thev were improper, or there was anythin" wrong, but because they were not needed. He would point out that no other Association had a better record than this one. The Mutual Lite Association of Australia, for 16 years, had an accumulated - fund of L 405 000; National Mutual Association, for 16 years, L 388,000 ; The Mutual Victorian Association, 15 years, 1*257,000 ; the Colonial i Mutual, 11 years, L 470,000; and the New ; Zealand Government Association, L1,102,UW. , These were figures it was impossible to get over. They had a nice snug reserve funa, and ; at the back of that the Government guarantee. He moved an addition to the motion as foi-

lows That, in the opinion of this meeting, it is inadvisable to proceed with the erection of a new building at the present time at Wellington. , , Mr Shrimski seconded the motion. Mr Hatch, M.H.R., asked whether that was a fair amendment. , , , Sir Julius Vogel said the policyholders wished to discuss the matter, and he thought this was the best way of discussing it. It was a bad precedent, he granted, but he should be guided by the meeting. Notice should certainly have been given of the motion. Mr J. E. Nathan objected to any such addition. He was opposed to a substantial resolution being brought forward in such a manner. This was springing a mine on them, and he had never in his experience known a chairman to allow such a motion to be put. Sir Julius Vogel said he had consulted the solicitor, and he now ruled that the resolution could not be put. (Oh ! and applause.) Major Atkinson was quite satisfied with the ruling. Had he known that the building was to be proceeded with he should ha\ e given notice. He would take steps to have the matter brought up. Mr Gillon asked why Wellington was specially picked out in this manner. Major Atkinson said the words “or elsewhere ” were in the resolution, but the chairman had not read them out. Sir Julius Vogel said that was so. Mr G. S. Graham said he approached them as a defeated candidate, but he felt satisfied that he had done his best to represent them. He regretted that the disapproval of appointments and purchases had been so marked. If he had to go through the year again he should support them. The purchases were wise ones. He contended that the Christchurch and Auckland properties were good ones, and the purchases proper. He asked members to carefully read the address he had had distributed. (Applause.) Sir Julius Vogel, iu replying, alluded first to Mr Fisher’s remarks. He defended the purchases of property, and said that he had consented reluctantly to make the Dunedin purchase before the Board met, on the understanding that immediate action was necessary. It was one of the best properties ever bought for the Association, and was now worth LSO 000. He was told that they could have received LSOOO on the bargain when they bought it. It was one of the very bestsites_ in Dunedin, and was yielding 5 per cent., with one tenement unoccupied. In reply to Mr Hursthouse’s question, he might say the Board was not occupying the building just noiv. All the other purchases were made bv the Board; tie had no more to do with them than any other newmembet. He understood Mr Travers referred to the Christchurch purchase as * fishy.. Mr Fisher had ingeniously used figures to his own purpose in connection with this purenase, and had forgotten the portions unlet. As to the Auckland purchase, he was not present when it was concluded. He believed it was a good purchase. Major Atkinson’s were peculiar as regarded buildings. They must have fine large buildings and conform to regular customs of similar institutions. Major Atkinson’s views appeared to be in favour of reverting to Government control, and having the institution managed as a quasi-private one. Sir Julius said- the figures given to him as to Mr Driver s business were these : The first three months of lbbo, surrenders exceeded the value of the new business bv L 5000; and during the first three months of 1886, new husine-s exceeded surrenders by LIO.OOO, which meant an improvement of 1*15,000. He asked business men it any business in the world could be carnea on well when one Director went up and down the Colony complaining of the management? Only the soundness of institution saved it. They would have been LIOO,OOO better off if Mr Fisher had not been on the Board. Mr Fisher had accusea him of using the Association for political purposes ; but he retorted that remark on Mr Fisher who would certainly be known through the Colony as the patriotic Director of the Board, who told the people so many things. There were gentlemen on the Board quite equal even to Mr Fisher. Sir Julius alluded to Mr Fishers pugnacious disposition, and said if all tne members of the Board were the same as that gentleman, professional pugilists would have to be employed. It was his misfortune that Mr Fisher was opposed to him and he believed that sometimes as Mr Fisher went through the streets, he clapped Ins hands and said joyfully, “I have him!” (Laughter.) With' respect to Mr Travers remarks Sir Julius said if there was one subject under the sun that gentleman did not understand it must be this one. He lidiculed the idea of estimating at a low value the guarantee. He (Sir Julius Vogel) started this institution, and he must give credit to Major Atkinson for the manner in which he had conducted it. Ine effect of taking away the guarantee, _he believed, would be to wind up the Association. (Applause). . , . The motion for adoption of the report was then put and carried without dissent.

CONSTITUTION" OF THE BOARD. Mr Bell moved—That it is desirable the business of the Government Life Insurance Association should be returned to the charge of the Government. He was quite aw'are, he said, that this was an unpopular motion. (A voice : Not so sure about that.) Coming from mm, an elected member, at any rate it was unselfish. The resolutions were due, m tne first instance, to Mr Reid, who had asked him to move them. It was generally agreed that some change should be made. He md not admit that anything had been done of which the policyholders would not approve. I he difficulty was this, that they had the Colonial Treasurer in the chair, and political gentlemen on" the Board, and it was difficult to prevent dissension. He put these motions on the ground of expense, the ten per cent deduction by the Government, the absence of true representation, and the impossibility of obviating public discussion of private affairs. The expenses in 1882 were an average of about L 20.000 per year, and for 1883 and 1884 about the same. In 1880 no more business or work was done, and the expenses under the Board were over including L9OO for actuarial expenditure tor IS *6 they estimated expenditure at L32,UUU. One reason for the increase was that it was absolutely impossible fer a Board to_ resist the force of the appeals of under-salaried officers with families. If they went back to the Government it would be brought down to L 20.000. As to representation, they hacl *,o,UUU policyholders, of whom only a small portion lived in the Wellington district. Vv as it not ce ctain that member of the Board would have connection with politics ? What hadbeen the result of the experiment so far? Mr Fisher and himself had been elected, for instance, and two people more unlike could not be chosen. And the matter was the ten percent question. The Government had provided that ten per cent, should be deducted from profits to act as guarantee to the Government, up to a million. Going back to the Government would mean that the policyholders would have that ten pei’ cent. He would point out that the fc\ - liament of the Colony represented the whole Colony, and fairly represented the policyholders in the Association. Parliament " a,

inquiring into the conduct of the Association. Parliament might come to conclusions, hut he, as a Director, would not accept any direction of Parliament unless it was contained in an Act. Now, they could see the divided management—Parliament was interfering. He had seen the kind of management likely to come from such a Board as would be proposed by another gentleman presently, and he should be very much disappointed if his proposal was rejected. He admitted the force of Major Atkinson’s argument with regard to investments, but he was unable to see why the Public Trustee, who lent out so much of the public money, should not lend this. He remarked that they had reason to be thankful to to Major Atkinson for the investments he had handed over to them ; the railway debentures, of which so much had been made, were the best investments they had. Mr Bell explained that he had an alternative proposal to make if this motion was negatived. It would provide for six members, three elected and three nominated, the latter to be Government officers; and he asked whether the officials named were not gentlemen of capacity, and gentlemen whose high positions prevented any possibility of their being ruled by the Treasurer. As to the Chairmanship, he held that it was only right that the office should be filled by the Government. (Applause.) Mr N. Reid seconded the motion, expressing a hope that the political element would be eliminated from the Board. Mr W. C. Smith said the guaranteee of the Colony and the cheapness of working the institution had been the inducement for people to join, and if they took away the guarantee the people would go to rival Associations, and they might wind the Government Association up at once. There had been very good and cheap administration through the pc>3t office in the country in the past, and now it was proposed to erect great buildings, although many people thought it was managed just as well under the old system. He was amongst those who thought so, and that was why he now supported the proposal that the Government should take the management back. They remembered the expense which had been incurred through G. Thorne, jun., who had received three times as much as Mr Driver. All the noise had been caused by the newspapers, who had called the appointment of Mr Driver a political one. He could say that Mr Driver had been a consistent supporter of Major Atkinson, and he (the speaker) was very much surprised when he saw that the newspapers called the appointment a political one. It was the political element that had got into the Board which had caused dissatisfaction. If a Board continued to conduct the business there ought not to be a member of the Legislature on it. As long as they allowed members of either House "to creep in they would have political feeling. Therefore he should propose that if the Association go back to the Government no member of either House be appointed. If the guarantee were withdrawn, he believed the Government would have to step in and take over the concern after it had been ruined. Mr T. K. Macdonald suggested that as it was impossible to fully consider the question that evening, the meeting adjourn until tomorrow evening. Mr Rolleston suggested Saturday night as the representatives of the Colony would then be able to attend. Sir Julius Vogel pointed out that gas, &c. cost money; and they might save money by going on. - The motion for the adjournment was put ana carried on a show of hands. Mr Shannon thereupon handed a paper to the Chairman. Sir Julius Vogel: Wehave our masters here, gentlemen ; Mr Fisher ani Mr Shannon have 160 and 48 proxies which they put m against the adjournment. _ . . . Mr H. D. Bell : I have 57 which I put in m favor of it. Mr Shrimski : And I’ve got fifteen. Mr Donald Reid, M.H.R., objected to proxies being used for an adjournment. Sir Julius Vogel said it was not usual, he believed, to use them for this purpose. However thev had been put in. Mr Fisher objected to that remark. He had not put hi* proxies in. If it was the wish of the policyholders to adjourn, lie should say Major Atkinson pointed out the importance of the matters to be discussed. Mr Shannon suggested an adjournment till Saturday night. , , n *. Sir Julius Vogel repeated that he could nou attend on Saturday night.. He reminded members of Parliament that in the House tnej sat very much later. . Mr Hursthouse remarked that m the House thev had a supper adjournment. . It was eventually decided to aajourn till Monday night, and the proceedings terminated.

The motions to come before the meeting in addition to that moved by Mr Bell, are as foiFailing Mr Bell’s resolution being approved, he will move the following resolutions, approved by the Board as an alternative «> i That the Board should be reduced to six members, of whom three should be elected, and the other three should be the SolicitorGeneral, the Secretary to the Treasury,, and either the Public Trustee or the Commissioner of Property Tax. Three to be a quorum.if the Chairman be present, or four if the Chairman be not present. 2. That the Government appoint one of the members of the Board to be chairman. 3. That each official member of the Board should receive an honorarium of fifty guineas, and each elected member should receive 100 guineas per annum, and the Chairman such sum in addition as the Board may fiv not exceeding L2OO. 4. That the nominated members shall cease to be members of the Board on the day the Act comes into operation, and shall not be re-appointed. 5. I hat power should be given to the Board, at it* option, to grant compensation to officers on retirement, and to make compassionate allowances to the widows and young chdoren of officers who die whilst m the.seruce. 6. lhat in case < f any fresh appointments of tne General Manager and the Actuary, the Board s power shall be exercised, subject to the appreval of tii6 Governor. . * P Mr Fisher will move the following resoluHons as an amendment to both the above : “1 That the Central Board be reconstituted, onri t-Vmi !t consist of seven members, tour to be elected by the policyholders, and three to be nominated "by the Government—the three nominated members not to be officers of the Government. 2. That the Board so reconstituted shall elect its own chairman o. That the honoraria be fixed at LIOO for each member of the Board, except the Chairman of Directors, who shall receive L3OQ per annum.” ~