PRICES FOR LAND

New Zealand Herald, Volume LXXI, Issue 21845, 6 July 1934, Page 14

PRICES FOR LAND

NATIVE TRANSACTIONS /, MINISTER QUESTIONED PURCHASES AT ROTORUA EVIDENCE AT INQUIRY COMMENTS BY CHAIRMAN [BY 'TELEGRAPH —PRESS ASSOCIATION] WELLINGTON, Thursday In further evidence before the Native Affairs Commission the Native Minister, Sir Apirana Ngata, complained that in 1932, when the Public Service Commissioner had conferred with him suggesting changes in the administration of tho Native 'Department, tho reasons for the changes were not specifically statrd. ITe considered it was due to him that a full hand should be shown, as he was being asked to agree to a very serious thing. At that time irregularities on the East Coast had been known, but had been kept from him. The Chairman, Mr. Justice Smith: You had valuations in the Rotorua district made in March, 1928. Purchases were made in 1930 and 1931, Land had been falling in value between 1928 and 1931, yet we find that tho prices at which you bought, even in 1931, were higher considerably than those valuations. I think there was only one instance in which this was'not so? " Methods Seem Inconsistent " Sir Apirana: Yes, it is true the vendors were opening their mouths pretty wide—all of them. We had to bargain hard to /beat them down. "What strikes me about these purchases," said Mr. Justice Smith, "is tjiat the files show you only asked for a .-Government valuation in four cases and those were cases in which you did not want to buy. In all others there is nothing to show what was done until after a, bargain was struck. The methods seem inconsistent. There is nothing to show that you had the material with which to make the estimates."

Sir Apirana: Probably that is right in some cases, but we had the reports

of supervisors. The Minister was questioned at length on his knowledge of the department's property purchases in furtherance of development schemes. Commenting on the lies property purchase, Mr. Quilliam, who is "appearing, to assist the commission, remarked

that with a Government valuation of

£2OOO and a purchase price of £SOOO. "it represented something good for Mr. lies." "Ib it a fact that the possibility of the purchase being made was known to you in March, 1932, by letter from Mr. Wright, the Te Kuiti supervisor?"" he asked. Arts and Crafts Property

On an affirmative reply being given Mr. Justice Smith remarked that an earlier statement by Sir Apirana, in which he had said his first information aboutxthe purchase was some time Jater, would have to be altered. Mr. Quilliam thereupon read the let-

ter mentioned.-/In it Mr. Wright stated that tho Government valuation was too

high and he thought. Mr. lies would reduce tho price he was asking because he wanted to clean up his property. . Sir Apirana: Mr. Wright wrote to us about all sorts of things. In the office he was considered a pest in writing so much.

Mr. Quilliam asked for information about the land on which the arts and crafts building stood at RotOrua.

The Minister replied that it belonged to Mr. Tai Mitchell, who was a personal friend. The buildings had been erected out .of the. .Maori .Purposes Fund and he would not go ahead with the negotiations, to purchase the land because of the possible element of public opinion. , Mr. G. P, : Finlay (representing the Maori race).; You ,don't need to proceed, on this point; .as the land will probably be made a gift. Mr. Quilliam: Perhaps you can 6X.plain this mortgage given last year over the property? Mr. Justice Smith: This is a serious matter and if you are not sufficiently certain of your information to allow, it to go forth into the public press, I will ask that 'it be not published. "It Is News To Me" Mr. Quilliam: I can state with certainty that Mr. Mitchell gave to Mr. E. Vaile a,mortgage over the land even While the buildings were being erected 011 it from Government funds. My information is that this was done on May, 7 of last year. Inquiries have been made into the transaction, and my instructions are that it is definitely the same piece of land. . Sir Apirana: It is nevrs to me. < \ Following a further question by His Honor, Mr. Quilliam said he was preSared to accept the information given iiri. Referring to stock sales made by Mr. D. D. Wilson, of Hamilton, Mr. Quilliam said he could not understand why a system of getting a man to buy stock for himself and then selling it to the department was adopted. "You preterred to trust to one man instead of a reputable firm?" he asked. "I formed the impression he was a fair judgo of stock," replied tho Minister. ,"My men seemed quite satisfied with tho quality of the stock." Mr. Quilliam: And the result/ of this nrrangemeht is that Mr. Wilson made £1556 at least which he should not have made ? The Minister: That is what tho Audit investigations show. Party's Travelling Expenses Questioned about purchases 'made by the Native Department not through tho Stores Control Board, Sir Apirana Ngata said they bought their grass seed, or most of it, outside the board, and also wire. They were satisfied they were buying more cheaply than they could buy through tho board. Mr. Quilliam referred to £785 shown as expenditure in connection with travelling in regard to development schemes, most of tho expenditure being incurred by natives and Europeans on the East Coast. The Minister said there wore .'3O in tho party, which was tho largest that had been taken round, and the visit took nearly a fprtnight. The East Coast really meant tho electorate represented by tho Native Minister in Parliament. Mr. Quilliam: No, 1. was not thinking of that. The Minister: Hut And it was.

Reference was made by Mr. Quilliam to thistle cutting by boys, and Sir Apirana said a party of 14 Te Auto boys Carried out the work of preparing tho Inarao and approaches to a tribal meet-ing-house for tho Governor-General's visit. 1 .

Mr. Quilliam: They were schoolboys on holiday?

The Mini'ster: I suppose some of them Would be needy boys. further questions Mr. Quilliam said: "Do you attempt to justify tho expenditure ■ out --of unemployment moneys?" ' Tho Minister: Not looking back on it How.

The Minister was questioned in regard to certain expenses paid for from the Maori Purposes Fund. Mr. D. G. Johnston, a member of the commission, said tho capital of the fund when it was established in 1924 was £90,000 and it was now down to £59,000. "Do you realise," he asked tho Minister, "that if you go on like this your fund will have gone in another, say, 15 years?"

The Minister replied that it was contemplated when the fund was established that it would be reinforced from tho same source, b3 T contributions from the Maori Land Boards, and power was given under the Native Land Act, 1924, to the Native Minister to requisition up to £7500 a year.

His Honor: The Maori Land Boards seem to bo somewhat annoyed that as much as £90,000 was collected from them. Were they consulted?

The Minister: I think there was correspondence, btit none of them liked it. It was not their money. It was tho money of tho Maori people, which under tho statute they were obliged to give. If we had left it alone the surest thing is that the Treasury would have got hold of it, I think the Native Trustee wants it now. . Letter in "Private" Drawer

Mr. Quilliam produced a letter dated May, 1931, from Sir Apirana to Mr. Tai Mitchell and after, reading an extract, said, "You seem to have realised Audit's curiosity, way back in 1931."

Sir Apirana: You want to put a sinister meaning in that? It was just a precaution. The Treasury was bound to watch us and tho Lands Department also would be taking an interest in us and in how our schemes progressed. Mr. Finlay: Tho letter was found in Mr. Mitchell's offico in a drawer marked "private." That was what Mr. Mitchell complained about previously. That tho drawer, as he expressed it, had been broken into and his private correspondence used by the commission. His Honor: So far as wo were concerned it was in the office furniture and we were entitled to examine it. Mr'. Quilliam mentioned a letter from Sir Apirana to Tupere Kingi, another officer of the department, of which part of tho context was in Maori. "Russia has nothing on this inquiry," Mr. Finlay interjected at this stage. Rotorua Office. Files • "That is a most unfair comment," said Mr. Justice Smith. "I should like to hear what you have to say in justification of that." Mr. Finlay explained that he was protesting against letters being taken from private cabinets. "I may say that the impression left on the commission's mind as a result of Mr. Mitchell's action in taking away other files from the Rotorua office to his own house when Audit was investigating, was that the matter required further inquiry," Mr. Justice Smith said. "The commission therefore asked for them to be sent down. Accordingly, the files have been sent down, or some cf them. From the inspection which members of the commission have made *they refer entirely to public affairs.

"It follows from that that Mr. Mitchell should not have removed, those files as he did, and the impression left with us is that they must have been concealed for some indirect purpose. The suggestion that it is wrong for Mr. Quilliam or the commission to read these files of Mr. Mitchell's, I do not hesitate to say, has no foundation." Mr. Finlay: I am referring to that correspondence which was faken by Mr. Petro from Mr. Mitchell's desk in .his office. These letters are part of that. ' -

Mr. Justice Smith (to Mr. Finlay): Your attitude at the opening of this commission was that you had nothing to conceal. NBw you aro protesting when obviously publicf documents are produced to the commission. Mr. Finlay: What I am complaining of is the use that is being made of them. I suggest this inquiry should be made in a spirit of inquiry, and not with sinister suggestions made in a lefthand way. Position of a Company

"Tho correspondence dealt exclusively with departmental business and in some respects there is no record whatever on Sir Apirana's files," Mr. Justice Smith stated. "These aro among the letters Mr. Mitchell complained about, and their production shows they are office letters. The explanation he made, as far as I can see, is nvt correct."

Reverting to the matter of the Waiapu: Farmers' Company, Mr. Quilliam asked if. Sir Apirana agreed that the operations of Goldsmith had given a distinct advantage to the company over similar firms.

Sir Apirana agreed in part, but said he was unaware that more than £IB,OOO of unemploj'ment funds had passed through tho books of tho Waiapu Farmers' Company. He had been chairman of tho 'company from 1912 to October, 1932. Ho had resigned because of tho inconsistency of his position as chairman and Minister at tho samo time. At tho conclusion of his -cross-ox-amination by Mr. Quilliam, Sir Apirana was questioned by Mr. Justice Smith on tho broad aspects of development work. This completed tho Minister's evidence.

"The Government's policy in dealing with the Maori race during the period from 1921 to 1928, when tho lit. Hon J. G. Coates was Minister of Native Affairs, is outlined in a statement prepared by Mr. Goates and handed in at to-day's sitting of the commission; Mr. Coates summarises conditions existing when hp assumed office, and traces legislative enactments necessitated by the growing urgency of tho native problem. Ho details steps leading to tho establishment of tho various .boards which control funds available for tho Maori population, and deals with the complicated state of native land titles and his efforts to consolidate them.

Tho commission adjourned until tomorrow.