BIBLE IN SCHOOLS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLVIII, Issue 14819, 24 October 1911, Page 8

BIBLE IN SCHOOLS.

NEW SOUTH WALES SYSTEM.

AN ANGLICAN ENDORSEMENT.

DEBATE IN THE SYNOD.

The debate on the Bible in schools question was resumed at last evening's sitting of the Auckland Anglican Synod. The motion which was moved on Friday last by the Rev. F. G. Harvie was as follows :— " That this Synod, being convinced that no system of education can be effectual in which religious instruction is deliberately omitted, strongly supports the resolution passed at the last General Synod, in favour of the introduction of the New South Wales system of religious instruction into the primary State schools of New Zealand and, with a view to arousing the national conscience on this subject, commends to the churchpeople of the diocese the pamphlet recently published by Archdeacon Willis."

Mr. W. W. Hill (Thames) said he was strongly in favour of Bible-reading in schools under proper conditions, but he objected to the instruction being given by ministers of any denominations, as it would tend to introduce sectarianism. Moveover, the syllabus was already so crowded that it would be impossible to provide time for any additional instruction without lowering the standard of education. Mr. A. H. Mason (Whangarei) supported the motion The Rev. Mr. Harkness (Ellerslie), who supported the motion, said if New South Wales could carry on its system successfully there was no reason why it should not be a success in New Zealand. Archdeacon Willis, in supporting the motion, said he did not agree with the Bishop's opinion (as expressed in his address to the Synod) that a conscience clause for teachers was necessary. It was not asked that the teachers or the State should teach religion, but only that reasonable facilities be provided for having religion taught by the churches. It was not desired to impose on teachers a task they would find uncongenial. No teacher in any of the Australian States had ever objected to teach the Scripture lessons.

Has the Church a Conscience? Mr. W. J. Speight said that during the past quarter of a century numerous resolutions on this subject had been passed by the Synod, but nothing had been done. This showed an evident lack of sincerity on the part of those passing such resolutions. He did not believe that the laity as a body was in favour of such a change. (Expressions of dissent.) He did not think that the country was ripe for the proposed change. A Voice: More's the pity. Mr. Speight said that he was "not a Roman"(loud laughter)—but he could not but contrast the activity of that Church in endeavouring to secure what it believed to be right in this matter with the inactivity of the Church of England. Romanism looked upon religious education as the prerogative of the Church, and it .was seeking to dominate the schools. "The Roman Church," he continued, "believes that the Church is the proper educator. You believed it at one time, but you gave it up, | and when you gave it up you gave it up for i ever."

Voices : No! No! Mr. Speight: Yes you did. The Soman Catholic Church ha* a conscience it. this matter. Has the Church of England a. conscience in the matter? (A voice: Yes.) Had it such a conscience as would ii ad it to act as the Romar Catholic Church was acting? (Voices: No! no!) No! It would I cost you something; it would mean a sacrifice. You are satisfied that the State should go on doing what it does rather than that you should do it. (Expressions of dissent.) Mi-. Speight, continuing, said that by merely passing resolution*- the Synod was putting its head -agsinst a stone wall and making itself contemptible. in the eves of the public. The new proposal in any case would not satisfy the Roman Catholics. Years ago ho had urged that a guild of teachers should be trained for the purpose of giving religious instruction outside of school hours' as allowed by the Act, but his proposal was not given effect to. He spoke as a churchman and as one anxious for the Church's welfare.

Not Too Late to Mead. Mr. F. G. Ewingfcon said that Mr. Speight was too sweeping in his condemnation Mr. Speight: We must be judged by our works. Mr. Ewington said that even if all that Mr. Speight said was correct it was still not too late to make amends. The addition of religious culture to the intellectual culture that the children were now receiving was absolutely necessary..-; In this, country crime was increasing, whilst in New South Wales, where the system of religious teaching was in force, it was decreasing. There was a work for the public schools in this matter which the Church could not possibly undertake. If religious education were not given in the schools there were thousands of boys and girls who would not get any such instruction at -all.

State Schools and Agnosticism. The Rev. M. Fussell (Morrinsville), in supporting the motion, referred to Mr Speight's statement that the Roman Catholics desired to dominate the education system. What was the present state of things? Simply that the State schools of JNew Zealand were controlled by agnosticism. J

. Mr. Speight: A gross,libel! It is a gross libel, I say, on our State system of education.

Mr. Fussell reiterated his statement, and said that it could be proved. What was agnosticism but "no religion?" The principle of agnosticism was upheld in the State schools, and supported by the public money. The agnostic, who did not want any religious teaching at all, was the only one who was favoured. (Applause.) It was not merely agnosticism, but it was absolutely unfair, as all the rest had no eay at all. There was a tremendous need for a system of religious instruction, in the schools to counteract the evil influences which were at work there. He had three children attending a State school, but although he was very far from being a Romanist he would feel it his duty to send his children to a Roman Catholic convent if there was one within their reach. The Rev. W. G. Monckton deplored the absence of,religious instruction in the present system of education. The result was reflected in many ways. In the English written by those who had been taught in our State schools there was a most conspicuous lack of spiritual force. There was also a great lack of reverence among the rising generation for their parents j and elders. (Hear, hear.)

The Democratic Aspect. The Rev. A. Fowler said that the motion was a democratic one, as it proposed to give the poor man's children the opportunity of receiving what the rich man's children now received for payment at the secondary schools. The Church of England, as the largest church numerically, had a right to be considered in this matter. Mr. Speight should give them a lead. Mr. Speight : I did so once, but you would not follow me. Mr. Fowler : Well, then, start again. (Applause.) Mr. Harvie, in replying, said that Sun-day-school teachers at present were to spend five-sixths of their time in imparting elementary knowledge which the childj ren would have already possessed under a system of religious instruction in the day I schools. Bishop Crossley congratulated the Synod i upon the high standard of the debate. ;He was quite certain that Mr. Speight I spoke from honest conviction, and as a Churchman. (Hear, hear.) I' Churchman. (Hear, hear.) there being The motion was carried, there being two dissentients.