THE TRAMWAY INQUIRY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLV, Issue 13798, 10 July 1908, Page 6

THE TRAMWAY INQUIRY.

CONCILIATION BOARD.

FURTHER EVIDENCE CALLED

STORIES OF "SENTRY DUTY."

The special Board of Conciliation *et up to determine the points at issue between the Auckland Electric Tramways Company and the Tramways Union continued its sittings, in the Arbitration Court yesterday. Dr. Mc Arthur,' S.M., presided, and associated with him on the Bench were Messrs. P. M. Hansen and K. H. Morris (representing the company) and Messrs. H. Carter and G. Sherry (representing the employees). Mr. J. J. Walklatc, associated with .Messrs. C. Grosvenor and W. D. Lysaght, conducted the case for the company, and Mr. A. Rosser, with Messrs. C. W. Smith and P. C. Buckley, appeared for the employees. Horace Edward Beait, formerly employed as a conductor and motorman in the Tramways Company, stated that in March last he was driving a car round tire corner of Pitt-street, when he bumped into another car. The impact was a slight one, and the buffer of his car was bent in. The brakes were working badly. On the next trip Inspector Johnston said he would report him, and a test of the brakes was made several days later, witness being the driver. The brakes then were in good working order, and had. in witness' opinion, been adjusted in the barn in the interval. After the test witness was told that, his presence was required at the head office, and on attending was notified by Mr. Lysaght that he was to be put back on the "bag" for two months. Witness felt sou: at being found at fault when he was really not to blame, and the test, in his opinion, was not really a fair one. He left the service on the following week.

In reply to Mr. Walklatc, witness admitted that on the day in question he had been warned by an inspector about the manner in which he rounded the curves. The reason given for disrating him was his bad judgment in rounding a curve when another car was stationary in front. \. "GIVEN A SHOCK. - ' Herbert Montague Herdsou stated that he worked as a conductor for the company up till the first week before the last strike, he having only been put on the permanent list a, fortnight before. He was put on the Heme Bay rim. On the Friday before the strike he was told by Mi. Morris to go down to the company's office next morning, and see Mr. Lysaght. He saw Mr. Lysaght accordingly. Mr. Rosser: What did he tell you?

Witness: He gave me a.shock. He told me that I was dismissed, and that my services were no longer required. Continuing, witness stated that he asked for a reason, but Mr. Lysaght would not give any, stating that he was acting under the instructions of Mr. Walklate. Witness then demanded to see Mr. Walklate,-but Mr. Lysaght said-lie was too busy. Witness then 6aid he would make it a union matter. Mr. Lysaght said. "I" don't blame you, Herdson. I think you are quite justified in seeking a reason. With that witness went away and saw Mr. Rosser, who advised him to see Mr. Hansen, which he did. Mr. Hansen said he-would, endeavour to ascertain the reason. Witness met Mr. Walklate coming out of the office, and accosting him respectfully, asked for a reason for his dismissal. Mr. WaL;late turned round, and said in a very condescending manner, "You are dismissed, and that is all about With v that Mr. Walklate turned round on his heel and walked away. Mr. Rower: What happened then? Witness: I saw a dog on the other side of the road, and compared myself to that.

Witness went on to say that he again saw Mr. Rosser, and in company with him interviewed Mr. Walklate. Mr. Hansen was also present, and asked whether there was any reason tor witness' dismissal. Mr. Walklate, in ♦epiy, said he could rive none, except that witness got a week's wages in lieu of notice. Witness, however, said he had not got this week's wages, whereupon Mr. Walklate said, "At any rate, you will get. it.". Mr. Rosier: Were you told afterwards the reason for your dismissal''' Witness: Yes. During one of the strike meetings Mr. Walklate Kvid I was dismissed for insolence to a superior officer. The only instance which he could recollect in which this might have occurred was on May 15, wiieu Inspector McEhvain boarded hie car at Cox's Bridge, near the Home Bay terminus, and when he went through witness' car he came across two ladies who had thrown away their ticket* — thing which very often happened when passengers were* nearing the terminus. . The ladies explained what-they had done,,but the inspector would not accept this, and called witness, before whom he made the implication that he had not taken the farw. One of the ladies was very indignant, and holding out a sixpence, said, "Conductor, I will pay you again." Witness,- however, refused to accept payment a second time. At the same time, ho resented the implication made by the inspector, and said as much to him, and they had "a-wordy discussion." He had been reported; on three or four previous occasions for trivial offences.

To Mr. Walklate: Ho could not say whether,, in the interview with Mr. Lysaght, the latter told him be was to get a,, week's wages in lieu of notice. ,■ He denied having called inspector ■ MeElwain in front of the ladies "a dirty, crawling SHERLOCK HOLMES. ..-"-. Walter Henry Ha slam, a motorman for five years in the service of the company, stated that he was a member of the deputation which had waited on .Mr. Hansen to complain of Inspector Morris having hidden for upwards of an hour at the Heme Bay terminus. Mr. \ Hansen replied that he did not order such things, ana the question was still unanswered as to who did.. If the company enforced its regulations it was practically impossible for the em-, ployees to work for a whole day without committing breaches. . He knew of other occasions on which inspector »had hidden. This applied especially to Inspector Tickle, who had a habit of hiding in a,particular doorway. Dr. McArthur: He is not very successful at the disappearing trick, then. (Laughter.) Witness: No, not very; but he pounces out of this door on conductors like a leopard on its prey. Mr. Roeser: He is known by a particular name, isn't he? Witness: Yes, Sherlock Holmes. To Mr. Walklate: He was not aware that when some inspectors appeared in sight motor men put on a little extra speed. Thomas Alexander Steen, conductor, stated that he had seen Inspector Tickle at. night time standing at the junction of Cook and Hobson Streets with the buttons of his coat turned in and his cap off under his arm. . , Walter Leslie Brecn, motormau, also gave evidence in regard to this incident, but said he failed to recognise the man standing there as Inspector Tickle. OTHER UNION EVIDENCE. Thomas Glass, formerly a conductor in the company's service, stated that after working through the spare list, and having been for about a month on the regular run, he s was told to report himself at the head office. Witness went there, and was informed by Mr. Lysaght that he was dismissed. This occasioned him a good deal of surprise, as he knew of nothing he had done which warranted such a course. On asking for a reason he. was told that he was not satisfactory. He did not receive a week's pay in lieu ot notice, and received no reference. .Several of the references which he had banded in on joining the service were returned, but three were missing. To Mr. Walklate: He did not apply to the company for the return of the three

missing references, thinking that he could got others. He did not demand a week's notice, being taken by surprise. He had had trouble with two mo tor men, one on account of his religious convictions and another on account of ringing the bell too close to a stopping place. He had also had trouble with a conductor. He was not aware of his own knowledge that one motorman had refused to go out with him. William Rockland, motorman in the company's service for four years and a-half, stated that two false reports were sent in against him, by Inspector McElwain, but he was able to disprove them. He had had trouble with Inspector Morris. He had also seen several'inspectors hiding, including Inspector Morris. On one occasion Inspector Tickle tried to force more passengers on the car than it was obliged to carry. Roy Hodgson, a conductor on the spare list, 'stated that he followed Inspector Tickle on one occasion, and saw him hide behind an hotel corner and spy motormen and conductors.

To Mr. Walklatc: He did not care for this system of being watched closely. Mr." Walklate: You don't mind! then, doing to others what vou complain of yourself? " '

Dr. McArthur: Oh, perhaps he thought that one good turn deserves another. (Laughter.) James Harvey Maunsell, conductor, said that Inspector Johnston, on the day prior to a. union meeting, asked him what they were going to do with Holden's case. Witness replied that it had nothing to do with him. Next day Inspector Johnston complained that eight" passengers got on witness' car at the penny section, and that onlv seven of them got tickets. Witness said he had given tickets to every passenger who pot on. Witness afterwards sent in a complaint, but got little satisfaction. , EX-INSPECTOR'S STATEMENT. William S. Campbell, formerly an inspector in the company's employ, stated that he took his orders from MY. Lysaght. After he had been an inspector for about four months, Mr. Lysaght instructed him to go'out by train to Onehunga in plain clothes on sentry' duty. Mr. Lysaght told him that the men were in the habit of delaying the cars there, and that if he hid behind the trucks or some such shelter lie would catch them. Witness, while agreeing to go out to Onehunga in plain clothes and to report the men for any breaches, refused to hide, behind trucks, stating that he had never done anything in that line bofors, and did not intend to do it then. Mr. Lysaght told him that in that case his • services would not be satisfactory to the company as an inspector, and subsequently threatened him with dismissal. Witness went out to. Onehunga in plain clothes by train, and while walking to the terminus" saw a motorman smoking a cigarette. Next day Mr. Lysaght asked him if he had got anything. Witness replied. ''Yes; I caught a motorman smoking." At Mr. Lysagnt's request, witness wrote- out a report, and the man got 30 demerit marks.

"NONE OF THE CONDUCTORS . HONEST." Mr. Rosser: Has Mr. Lysaght ever expressed his opinion to you as regards the men ir the service? Witness: Yes; he told me that none of the conductors were honest, that they could not bo honest, having the amount of money they did in the car. Did he evei give you any instructions about ex-Conductor Beaston?—Ye-s; : he told me to report every breach committed by Beaston, no matter how trivial, as he wus too much of a labour agitator, and he wanted him dismissed. Did you join the union? Yes. And how long did you reign after that?— Oh, not long. Mr. Lysaght told me that my services were not required. Witness went on to say that after being out of the company's employ for a few weeks he applied for reinstatement as a motorola!), and was successful. His experience as such, however, was not a happy one, as Mr. Lysaght seemed to have him set. He was dismissed about two months later for committing a breach of the- regulations. This breach consisted of taking a car back to the kirn, and requesting to be placed with .another conductor, as he was unable to work on amicable terms with the one he was with.

The inquiry was adjourned until 10 o'clock this morning.