PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLIII, Issue 13286, 19 September 1906, Page 8

PARLIAMENT.

[BT TELEGRAPH. ASSOCIATION.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. TUESDAY. The Council met at half-past two p.m. BILLS PASSED. The. Juvenile Offenders Bill and the Sale of Explosives Bill were read a third time and passed. NATIVE LAND QUESTION. Mr. MACDONALD resumed the debate upon Mr. Ormond's motion for an extended return of native waste lands. He criticised the apathy of the Native Land Department and the apathy of the people, especially in the. South Island, respecting the question of dealing with native* lands. It was not the fault of the Maoris, who represented live per cent, of the population-, but of the Europeans*, representing 95 per cent., that millions of acres were lying unutilised, and returning nothing, to the revenue. Every Maori child had a right to a share in this land! and he asked, had not the European children a right to share in it also? The present position could not possibly continue. To overcome the difficulty the first process was to sweep away the multitudinous Acts relating to native lands. Then every acre of land the titles to which had not been individualised should be taken over by the Crown. A commission should then report upon the- value of the whole of the lands, and as to which should be reserved for residential purposes. Twenty acres would be sufficient for each native, and one million acres would give this area to every Maori. That would leave between three and four million acres which were suitable for settlement, and which would give, a fair return to those who took up the hind. When the value was estimated the Government should issue bonds through the Public Trust Office for the amount, which should remain in trust until the Maori titles were settled, and interest, should be given to the holders of the land. He contended that, the policy of dealing with the Maori lands by the Maori boards had proved a complete failure, and it was necessary to adopt a policy such as ho had suggested to enable Europeans to settle upon the available lands of the colony. He doubted, however, if the present. Native. Minister would be able, owing to the peculiarities of his position, to give effect to such a policv. MAHUTA entirely agreed with Mr. Maedonald in his proposal for sweeping away old native land laws, and establishing new laws to enable lands to be thrown open. Mr. RIGG drew attention to the apparent ignorance of the previous speakers of the fact that a definite native land policy had been outlined in the Budget—a better policy than that outlined by either the j mover or Mr. Maedonald. It would, ho said, be impossible to deal with the whole question in one measure. The ATTORNEY GENERAL declined to refer to Mr. Ormond's reference to the general land policy, on the ground that it was contrary to the Speaker's ruling to do so, but on the native land question ho stated that Mr. Ormond bad expressed'approval of many points in the Land Act of last Parliament, and had approved of the policy enunciated' by. Mr. Scdrlon. and ho defended the Native Minister from the accusation of apathy, and quoted statistics to show that a great deal had recently been done towards acquiring native lands and individualising titles. He had no objection to the motion, but it must be understood that in voting for it he in no way subscribed to the views of the mover. , Mr. ORMOND having replied, the motion was carried on the voices. The Council adjourned at five p.m. HOUSE OF KEPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday. v The House met at half-past two p.m. , "... PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Church Property Trust Amendment Bill and the Roman Catholic Bishop of Auckland Empowering Bill were read a .second time. ■ ■";.}. . ■ ',' \. " ' .•■;.; FIRST READINGS. Otago Presbyterian Church Board Property . Consolidation Bill, • Onslow Borough Drainage Empowering Bill, and the Petone Borough Streets Bill were read a first time. .. . ; i.'..'.'. SUPPER ADJOURNMENT. The PREMIER moved. "That the usual supper adjournment at half-past nine be discontinued for the remainder of the session." He held that the experience of the last few weeks amply justified. the new departure, adding that there was no mention of rising at eleven, because he felt sure if due diligence were*observed all business in future would be over by eleven o'clock. • If by any mischance, business were ever obstructed, they would, of course, have to sit beyond that hour. Mr. HERRIES was sorry that the motion had been brought forward in the absence of so many members on both sides. There never would be obstruction from his side of the House. The motion was agreed to on the voices. THIRD READINGS. The Fire Brigades Bill, Payment of Jurors Bill, Habitual Criminals Bill, and the Horowhenua Block Amendment Bill were read a third time.- ~ MAORI LAND CLAIMS BILL. The Maori Land Claims Adjustment and Lands Amendment Bill was considered in committee and passed through with amendment made, by the Native Affairs Committee. ADVANCES TO SETTLERS BILL. The adjourned debate on the second reading of the Government Advances to Settlers Act Amendment Bill was then proceeded with. • > . . • Mr. JENNINGS condemned the poor fees provided lor valuators in large districts. Mr. LAURENSON said he would like to see the total abolition of the go-between lawyer. Mr. WILFORD could not conceive of such a possibility. SIR JOSEPH WARD replied, promising to consider if the provisions of the measure could not be extended to the Maori people. The Bill was read a second time on the voices. •

TOURIST AND HEALTH RESORTS. Sir J. I&ARD, in moving the second reading of tbovou'rist and Health Resorts Control Bill, explained that the Bill was chiefly a machinery Bill for the better and more uniform- control of the whole tourist system.

Mr. HERRIES while far from opposing the Bill, thought it was a pity it did not go further, and get a chance of doing useful work. He tlrougbt the head of the Department, whom he admitted to be an excellent tourist agent, was too much away from the colony. He considered that the want of organisation and discipline inquired a radical change in the management of the whole Department. The chief want was concentration and unification of authority. He criticised the management of Rotorua. He sadd that it would be much better if the place were made a municipality, and could not be worse than it was now. Mr. LAURENSON warned the House against too much encouragement of a demoralising traffic. Mr. HOGG urged more protection for " beauty spots," and thought that the tourists who think >f nothing but sport and pastime ought not to be encouraged to the detriment of the producing interests, which deserved .first consideration. He thought more ought to be done at Rotorua and other sanatoria for the 'jld ind the infirm people of the colony. Mr. ALISON was surprised at the sentiments just, expressed about the tourists. He asserted the tourist traffic was very valuable to the country. Ho denied it was in any way demoralising. He hoped the House would not he asked to hear any more such criticisms. Mr. ELL protested against the indiscriminate introduction of wild animals for the attraction of tourists and advocated the protection of the nativf birdlife of the country. He. admitted, i*. answer to an inter-'

jection of the Premier, that New - Zealand had done more than any other place in, the world in this matter, but while congratulating the Minister on that, he thought tlhe protective measures should go very much further.

Mr. STALLWORTHY would like to seeprovision made for bringing' more mineral waters, Helensville springs, to wit, under the control of the Department. , , - Mr. RUTHERFORD", while not- asking for anything like the scale of the Rotorua expenditure, thought" something •more should be done for Hanmer than is now done. ' ".. *

Mr. HALL suggested more free beds at Rotorua.

Mr. WILFORD urged the Government to buy' the spa at Taupo and the Wairakei district, because tourists are now prevented by local jealousies from seeing both these places., which 'are the most interesting in 1 the whole -thermal'district., Ho also urged; the Government to take over the launches on the lakes, ''and'bring'down the charges, which are at present prohibitive. He criticised the discrepancies.in the salaries of officers of the Tourist Department. Mr. MANDER suggested -the acquisition of the Kamo springs, and defended the tourists. , .

Mr. GREENSLADE wanted better roads; ty the Waitomo Caves.

Mr.. POLAND considered Te Aroha the best sanatorium and the finest beauty spot in the colony, and suggested its treatment accordingly. Mr. FLATMAN feared the introduction of noxious animals, such as the brown bear.

The PREMIER pointed out that there seemed to be much misapprehension about the Tourist Deportment. The Department was not responsible for tho introduction of deer, and it had nothing whatever to do with foreshores, or with annexing springs and other things. Much nonsense was talked about stalking as the exclusive amusement of the globe-trotter, but the Department knew of its own knowledge that for every outside stalker there arc 50 New Zealandcrs. There was an idea of gross extravagance, but the cost of the, Department was £1000. It earned £16,000, and tho lowest estimate of the annual tourist expenditure set-it down at £550.000. As to animals— hears, blue-bears, yellow bears, or any other wild animalstho Tourist Department had never asked for tho introduction' of a single wild animal.'. As for free beds the Government had as much sympathy for tho poor .as any,,member of' the House, and had done- a good deal for them in this big matter, and members might have said so while '; they wero about it. Tho - Premier re*-' ferred .what had been said about Rotorua. He said that when the Tourist Department took Hip. Rotorua the place' was actually valueless. Since then much money had been spent on • tho water supply, lighting, drainage, grounds, improvements to various springs, streets, roads, and bathing establishments. The Rotorua. people had the benefit of all these things,-and had never had to pay a rate. For his part, he thought they were very lucky people indeed. His hon. friend who represented the place wanted the whole of the benefits to 1)0 handed to the citizens, without their paying or being rated, or pledging anything themselves in any way. He did not. blame the hon. gentleman. On the contrary, lip commended him for playing a game understood by both sides, but the House must not take it for a criticism of Rotorua, which was a very up-to-date place indeed. Referring to* Mr. Donne, who had. ho told the House, done, so much for the Department, organising, etc.. and bringing it up to date, he defended that gentleman from the insinuations in the debate, and told the House that he had received several offers from Australia and America of better salary, in one case amounting to £1200 a year," to secure his services. JUVENILE OFFENDERS BILL. The Juvenile Offenders Bill was received from the Legislative Council with amendment, consideration of which was deferred to next sitting day. SALE OF EXPLOSIVES BILL. The Sale of Explosives Bill was received from the Council and read a first time. TOWN DISTRICTS BILL. The PREMIER moved the second reading of the Town-Districts Bill. He said it was greatly needed. - Mr. THOMSON supported the Bill as putting an end to dual authority, and thus ensuring the maintenance of the main roads passing through these town districts. Mr. ERASER and Mr. R. McKENZIE denounced the Bill as I'kely-to enable small hamlets to create comity rates, and prevent the maintenance of county roads. Mr. FIELD contended that there would be hardship, but tho Bill would, on the whole be very beneficial. He pointed out that the provision making 50 householders necessary to the formation of a town district was quite good enough a safeguard against the evils .feared-'by- the previous speakers. Mr. ELL suggested giving these districts the municipal franchise. Mr. HERRIES opposed the Bill He pointed out the conflict of by-laws sure to follow the unlimited formation of town districts.

The PREMIER, in reply, said that if there were anything in the arguments employed no municipality would ever be evolved from a county, whereas as a matter of fact there were"a great many. One non. gentleman who opposed the "Bill had a Counties Bill in his pocket. Others had asked for a Local Government Bill, and they always opposed such a measure. He told the House that the Local Government Bill would be down this session, but could not be expected to go through. He appealed to members to say whether this Districts. Bill, which was asked for far and wide, ought to be kept back for the others. The Bill was read a second time on the voices.

LOCAL AUTHORITIES' SUBSIDIES BILL.

The PREMIER moved the second reading of the Local Authorities' Subsidies Bill. He explained that the Bill limits the subsidies to be paid annually to local bodies to £100,000, to be allocated on the principle of the higher the rate (all the rates together) the higher the subsidy. Mr. J. ALLEN feared the Bill would not produce the desired, effect, and urged its reference to a committee. He agreed thai the old practice was very unfair. Mr. BARBER objected to the maximum limit for boroughs of £350 as too low, and pointed out that the aggregate limit might make the individual limit much lower iu practice. Wellington would lose £100 a year at least. .

Mr. SYMES said other local bodies would suffer similarly.

Mr. REMINGTON calculated that in the [tangitikei County there would be a loss of 5350.

The PREMIER, interjecting, said Mr. Remington was wrong, as the old subsidies were much less than he placed them.

Mr. MASSEY thought the county councils all got less under the Bill. He thought that the subsidy' began too soon (at the farthing rate), and ended too soon (at 16 farthings). He urged the reference of the Bill to a committee.

The TiiEMIER, in reply, showed from a return that local body had ever received more than £2000 in the past, and that therefore there could be no reduction. The large cities would certainly suffer, but to declare that all round there would be a reduction in the face of the £100,000 limit was Fo beat the wind. He saw no ambiguities or difficulties, but he would be quite prepared to submit the measure to a commitee in view of its importance, and he would give notice of the committee the next day or the day after. . The second reading passed on the voices, and the Premier gave formal 'notice of the committee. THE TRAINING SHIPS BILL. The PREMIER moved the second reading of the Training Ships Bill, brought down from the Legislative Council. He explained the provisions briefly. " There was a brief discussion, and the second reading was earned on the voices. COAL MINES BILL. The Coal Mines Act Amendment Bill was read a, second time pro forma, and referred to the Goldfields and Mines Committee.

The House adjourned at twenty minutes past ten p.m. s