PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 11780, 9 October 1901, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

[BY teikgkaph.— ASSOCIATION-.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday. The Council met at half-past two p.m. LABOUR DAY. It was resolved, by 20 to 6, that the Council on rising, should adjourn till tomorrow night, to-morrow being Labour Day. MORTGAGES OF LAND BILL. The Mortgages of Land Bill passed its final stages. CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION BILL. The Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill was read a second time pro forma, and referred to the Labour Bills Committee. MONEY LENDERS BILL. The Hon. R. Reeves continued the adjourned debate on the second reading of the Money Lenders Bill, which, he maintained, would be ineffective, as borrowers would still be made to pay large percentages for endorsement. The Hon. C. C. Bowen was doubtful as to the effect of the Bill. The only way he could see would be to make interest unrecoverable above a certain rate, and there were still difficulties. The Hon. F. Arkwrigkt said that the Bill, with the exception of one clause, was practically the same as the English Act, and was an experiment for which we had a very good example. The Hon. J. Twomey said that even if endorsers were not reached, there would be some people who were reached by the Bill.

The Hon. G. Jones quoted from the evidence by money lenders given before the Parliamentary committee set up at Home. One money" lender stated that "if the Court had power to review transactions, the business would not be worth following." Provision giving the Courts equitable jurisdiction in all money lending cases was the widest clause in the Bill, and even if it contained nothing else, it would be an excellent measure.

The Hon. T. Kelly supported the Bill. The Hon. W. C. Walker, in replying, said though extortion was not practised in New Zealand to the same extent as at Home, abuses existed.

The Bill was then read a second time on he voices.

The Hon. R. Reeves moved to set up a Select Committee to consider the Bill.

The Hon. G. Jones held that the reference of the Bill to a committee, and taking of evidence, meant putting the Bill aside for the session, and Mr. Reeves, who favoured this, knew what he was doing. The Hon. R. Reeves' amendment was lost on the voices.

The Council rose at a quarter-past four p.m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tttesdat, The House met at half-past two p.m. LAND AND LIVE STOCK AUCTIONS BILL. The joint Agricultural, Pastoral, and Stock Committee recommended that the Land and Live Stock Auctions Bill be not further proceeded with this session, and that the Bill be forwarded to all the agricultural societies, and their opinions asked thereon. It was resolved that copies of the Bill be also forwarded to the various farmers' unions, and that the recommendations of the committee be agreed to.

THE LIBRARY.

Mr. Fisher reported that the Joint Library Committee had passed the following resolution :—" That the Premier be asked to secure the sanction of Parliament to the payment of the £500 Watson fine to the library fund." He moved, "That the report lie on the table, and be referred to the Government for consideration."

Mr. Jas. Allen said the Watson fine had been paid into the Consolidated Fund, but according to the Standing Orders it should have been paid into the Library Fund. This was a legitimate sum to go to the Library Fund, and the library wanted the money very badlv. Mr. Seddon said the' Library Fund had received a special vote of £500 from the Consolidated Fund last year for books. In reply to an inquiry he said that was the Watson fine. He contended it was only for special cases that the amount of a fine was to go to the Library Fund. The recommended that the Watson fine be paid into the Consolidated Fund.

Mr. Massey urged that the Standing Orders made it clear that this £500 should go to the library. Mr. Fisher said that the Premier having made up his mind it was only beating the air to further discuss the matter. Mr. Fisher's motion was agreed to on the voices. THE ESTIMATES. At three p.m. the House went into Committee of Supply for the further consideration of the Estimates. CUSTOMS AND MARINE DEPARTMENTS. The first vote considered was that for class 6. Customs and Marine Departments, total £39,071. Some discussion took place with regard to he salary paid to the Collector of Customs, at Auckland. Mr. Fowlds moved that the item Customs officers and services, £35,176, bajeduced by £1, as an instruction to the Government that all officers over the stipulated term of service and age should be retired. Mr. Fisher expressed approval of the idea. He understood the Government had in view the separating of the Customs and Marine Departments. The work of both these Departments had grown largely of late years, and their separation would be a step in the right direction. Mr. Hogg protested against the increases being granted to highly-salaried officials. He considered an officer should be retired when he was unable to do his work, but not because he had arrived at a certain age. Mr. Fisher thought it quite right to apply the retiring rule to all. Some men, he said, were kept out of their promotion because officers in higher positions were kept on above the age limit. Mr. G. W. Russell objected to the proposal that an officer should be retired when lie came to v, certain age. Such an officer might be as clear-headed and active as a man of 20.

Mr. Hutclieson said the Customs Department was the most economically managed Department in the whole service. In the course of further discussion Mr. Mills said the retirement regulation bad never been rigidly observed by any Government. Members should recollect that by getting rid of senior officers they would lose the ripened experience of these officers, and at the same time involve the country in an extra burden for pensions. Mr. Laurenson thought promotion should not be by seniority of service, but by fitness for (he position. Mr. Seddon said he recognised that there Mas a large number of officers who were getting old, and who, he himself thought, ought to be retired. Of course, discretion should be exercised, and the interests of the country considered; but he admitted that it was disheartening in the extreme to see a lot of these old men kept in positions, whilst there was no hope whatever for the junior officers. Moreover, economy could be practised by retiring highly-paid officers and promoting some of the juniors. Mr. Buddo moved as a prior motion to that of Mr. Fowlds, that the salary of the Auckland Collector of Customs be "reduced by £25 (the amount of the increase). 'This was lost by 33 to 21. Mr. Fowlds' motion was lost on the voices, and the item passed unaltered. The House rose at half-past five p.m. The House resumed at half-past seven p.m. In the course of discussion on the vote for marine and harbours, Mr. Hall-Jones, ill reply to Mr. Millar, said the Department was inquiring of the Imperial Board of Trade as to the best kind of rocket signal to adopt. Mr. Millar asked what steps the Minister was taking with regard to the dredging industry', so as to put it on a more permanent footing. It was almost impossible to comply with the requirements of the engineer in chief in regard to dredges, and it was seriously handicapping that important industry.

Mr. -Jones said he was bringing in a Bill to deal with the question of engineers on dredges. Replying to Mr. Jas. Allen Mr. HallJones "said the result of experimental trawling had been very satisfactory, and in some cases would justify private individuals in going in for trawling as a business venture. Mr. Monk said the only thing that bad been discovered was that we had not any quantity of fish in deep water off our shores. Inquiry should be held as to the breeding grounds of our fish, so that our present supplies should not be destroyed. The vote for marine and harbours was passed unaltered. At the vote of £13,600, for Government steamers, some discussion took place with regard to the working expenses and functions of the Hinemoa and Tutanekai. Several members complained of increased expenditure on these steamers. Mr. Hall-Jones pointed out that the functions of these vessels had very largely increased of late vears. Mr. Pirani moved that the vote be reduced by £5 as an indication that the cost of running these steamers be curtailed. Mr. Pirani's motion was lost on the voices, and the vote agreed to. The total vote for the Customs and Marine Departments was then passed without alteration.

STAMP AND DEEDS DEPARTMENT.

Stamp and Deeds Department was next taken, the total vote being £26.879,. which was agreed to without amendment. EDUCATION. The Education Department, the total vote being £512.519, was next considered. Mr. G. W. Russell complained that all through this Department there were increases, the vote" being raised more than £900 over the sum expended last year. The number of officers was also increasing. Mr. Buddo said the increase was all the more noticeable, seeing that they were all deploring that the number ot school children was gradually decreasing. Mr. Ell urged that the Minister for Education should be a Minister having a sear, in the House. He moved to reduce the vote by £1, as an indication in that direction. Mr. Tanner moved as a prior amendment to reduce the item assistant secretary, £425, bv £25, the amount of the proposed increase." He spoke strongly against large salaries being heaped up year by year. Mr. Hall-Jones urged that tne work of the Department had greatly increased, owing to the separation of _ industrial schools and reformatories, technical education, and so on, and . that increased work meant increased expenditure. Mr. G. W. Russell said there was no desire to detract from the usefulness of the Department, but they wanted to know why the head office had attained such unwieldy and disproportionate dimensions. Mr" Hornsby entered an emphatic protest against the manner in which the expenditure in several of the public departments was being piled up. Mr. Collins objected that while the officers in this Department had had increases, teachers salaries had been decreasing.

Mr. Pirani objected to the encroachments by this Department on the functions of education boards. The whole Department required overhauling and putting on a systematic basis. After considerable discussion, Mr. Tanner's motion was lost on the voices.

Mr. Meredith moved, ''That the vote for head office, £49-32, be reduced by £500, as a protest against the increased expenditure in this office. This was lost by 27 to 17, and the total vote for the head office was agreed to without alteration. [Left sitting.]