PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXI, Issue 9580, 3 August 1894, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

♦ ■ • v {by tpcaaaup h.— .ASSOCIATION.] HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday. i The House met) at 2.30 p.m. ' PERSONAL EXPLANATION. Sir R. Stout rose to make a personal explanation.; He said that since the House rose last night he had seen the Minister io r Education, who had informed him that no railway men had spoken to him as to the dismissal of certain railway officers, and he therefore accepted that assurance from the hon. gentleman. He might say Mr. Reeves had nob asked him to make this explanation. Mr. Reeves said he, of 'course, accepted this explanation in the spirit in which it was made. He wished to state that he had met a member of the railway unions in - Christchurch, and the meeting was con ducted like other public meetings. - There* was not a full muster of unions, but about 102 men were present. He had there stated that he was against the Commissioners, and he had expressed the opinion that the Commissioners, or a majority of them, would hare to go. As a matter of fact, his own feeling was that if any of the old Commissioners were retained ib should be Mr. Haonay, bat the Cabinet decided otherwise. There was no suggestion from the railway men as to the dismissal of railway officers. Mr. Seddon also explained that he had nob attended any meetings of railway men, nor had he discussed the question of the appointment of Railway Commissioners with these men. There had been no prearrangement of any kind with the railway men as to the appointment of Commissioners. Sir R. Stout said he also accepted the Premier's assurance on the matter. THE FINANCIAL DERATE. Mr. Smith (New Plymouth) resumed the debate on the Financial Statement. He considered the Budget the best ever delivered in New Zealand, and strongly supported the proposals contained in it. Mr. Button congratulated the Treasurer for bringing down a bold policy, a policy so bold that he might say that the hon. member had rushed in where angels might fear to tread. v Mr. Ward had presented . the Budget with the skill of an artist, and asked them to look at a picture of a rosy character. Borrowing all round seemed, however, to be the groundwork of this picture. Ho wished be could believe that the colour of this picture was not ephemeral, but as he gazed at the picture its beauty disappeared, and nothing practical ■ was left at all. He should only refer to a few of the proposals because their number was so large be could not deal with all. As to the borrowing proposals of the Budget, they would involve the violation of the electioneering pledges made at the last election. This was impressed on him most strongly during the late election, and he could nob possibly support those borrowing proposals without violating the pledges he mad?) to his constituents. They were told, of course, that thfs was not borrowing, but that was simply begging the question, and his opinion was that ib was most certainly borrowing. He held that when the colony had so clearly pronounced against borrowing, they were entitled to be heard before borrowing proposals were given effect to. He did not understand Mr. Ward when he said only £250,000 was proposed to be borrowed, when by the Statement itself at least £750,000 was to be borrowed, to say nothing of the money to be raised for land purchases, or for giving cheap money to farmers. They were all agreed that the Land for Settlement Bill was good in principle, but he held that a great difficulty would be found in administering the Act, and persons might from time to time bring irresistible influence to bear on the Board to either purchase land or to distribute it amongst the friends of the Government. He held that if the lease in perpetuity were agreed to there should be a re - valuation of rente from time to time, which he thought only fair and reasonable. He asked the Treasurer whether he considered it wise to compel foreign companies to deposit large sums by way of investing in New Zealand securities, and he wished to know whether that would not lead to retaliation on the part of other companies His opinion was that it would probably result in about £480,000 being transferred to other colonies from New Zealand as a result of this proposal in the Budget. He also opposed the cheap money scheme, and asked how ib would affect institutions like the Government Insurance Department. They would have that department competing with the new department to be opened up by the cheap money scheme, unless the Government Insurance Department reduced its rake of interest. The result of that would be that profits to be divided amongst shareholders would be considerably reduced, and thab would act very prejudicially. He asked also why those who were settling on the land should alone be entitled to this cheap money. As had already been pointed out there were numerous factories and other establishments which could be greatly benefited by this scheme being extended to them. He was aware it would be easier to give land as security, but he failed to see why one class of the community should be singled out for assistance in this way when the whole colony had to bear the burden. If they were to increase indefinitely the amount of loan money to be borrowed in this way there was no doubt whatever a time of difficulty would arise for the colony, and they might anticipate in the future a very large number of properties falling into the hands of the Government which would nob be worth half the money that had been advanced on them. Pressure would be brought on the House to relieve those people from their liabilities, and so the general debt of the colony would be increased. The (government would, therefore, be involved in the meshes of inextricable confusion.

Mr. McGowan did not think those members who regarded the Government policy as borrowing were fair in their estimate of the Government proposals. He admitted that the Government were becoming security for this money, bub they did nob propose to spend the money on public works, and as they were obtaining security in return for any advance they might make it could scarcely be called borrowing in the usual sense. As to the proposals for land settlement, he thought the Government were entitled to encouragement from both sides of the House for bringing in a Bill to deal with this important matter.. He did nob agree with the question of local government being postponed, and he thought it was time the- members of those "bodies should be reduced, so reducing the cost. It was also a matter for regret that more encouragement was not to be given bo the mining industry of the colony. He agreed with the proposal to give assistance to fruitgrowers, and that was another reason why he thought the railways should be in the hands of the Government. He was very doubtful about the * success of financial aid to settlers, because the tendency was to encourage the worst class of men in making those advances. It may, in some cases, be tho best class of settlers who required this assistance, bub he did not think this would be the case. Many of the best settlers in this colony started without assistance, and succeeded solely by-their own exertions. They were the kind of settlers they wanted in the colony * and if they had been bolstered up they would probably not have done so well. That being his opinion of this scheme, he held that very great care would have to be exercise in Tending this money to a proper class of settlers. He approved of the consols scheme, and thought it would bend to make the colony rich and prosperous. He resented Sir R. Stout referring to the Government supporters as dumb dogs, and said ib looked as if that gentleman wished the Liberal party bo follow, him instead of the present Government. He considered the Budget was a cautious policy, and nob one of blundering as stated by the senior member for Wellington. Mr. Crowthee considered the Premier of the colony was too hard worked, and said the portfolios of Public Works, i Native Minister, and Defence were too much for one man. As far as he could see the Budget had some very good features in ib, especially the proposal to deal more efficiently with native lands. The cheap money proposals would, in his opinion, involve great responsibility, . and he agreed with the last speaker that it was just as important to encourage our local industries as to lend money to farmers. This should nob be confined , to farmers only, and ib should bo extended to other branches of busi-

ness. He had heard there was a general desire to bring this debate to an early close; if that were so, he should be willing to allow the older members to speak on the Budget, and give way himself. Mr.- McLachlan said the Budget proposals would give relief to people who had never been legislated for before, and the fact that ; farmers would now be able to get a reduction of two to three per cent, in theii mortgages; would be a vary considerable relief to them.' [He was speaking when thi House adjourned at 5.30. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Speaking on the. Financial Statement Mr. Montgomery said the debate possesses

)ne peculiar feature in -that the most hostile speech made against the Budget was lot delivered by an opposition member, but jy one of the Liberal | party. Even Mr. Vlitchelson admitted there was some suralus, but Sir R. Stout-represented the Budget in the blackest terms, and persisted ;here was a deficit.- He (Mr. Montgomery) proceeded to warmly praise the financial administration: of the .Government. He *as against borrowing that resulted in an ncrease of . the public debt and taxation, jut he did not call it borrowing to obtain oans from England which paid for themselves. With the exception of £250,000 for oads in the North Island, he held there vera no proposals for borrowing either this >r last year. He generally approved of the proposals contained in the Budget, and aid that on the whole there had been no iaancial proposals ever placed before the jountry which tended so much to benefit -he colony at large. Dr. Newman regarded the Budget as a nost extraordinary one. There was no elief in it. It did nob remit taxation, and n fact it put on a good deal. The public iebt was increased by four-fifths of a nillion, and so hard were the Government pushed for money, that they had dismissed lome 500 co-operative labourers, who had to reek work elsewhere. After criticising the Colonial Treasurer's figures, Dr. Newman went on to point out that the Atkinson Government were only allowed £800,000 of Treasury bills, but the present Government tad increased the amount to £1,476,000, javing last year added £117,000 worth. They were told by Ministers that the net iebt of the colony had decreased since they :ook office, but the fact was, according to ;heir own Budget, the net debt of the :olony had increased during the three years jf the present Ministry by £1,186,000. lb must be admitted that this policy of the Government was a borrowing one, and according to his reading of the figures, the Government proposed to borrow this year no less than £7,218,000, a larger sum than any Treasurer had ever yet proposed in any one year. Mr. Morrison congratulated Mr. Ward on the statesmanlike proposals he had submitted to the House, and also on the handsome surplus he had shown in his Budget. He warmly defended the proposals of the Government.

Mr. Allen dwelt at length on the financial proposals of the Budget, and said Mr. Ward was a borrower and a plunger by nature, and he bad voted for the million loan floated in 1887. There could, he con-» tended, be no greater proof that the present were a borrowing Government than by the fact chat the public debt had increased during the last three years by over one million and a-half. He condemned the sham Liberalism of the Premier, who abused the Disqualification Act, and deceived the House as to Bills going through it, and went in for a plunging finance. Mr. Millar replied to Mr. Allen, and said nothing he had heard from the other side of the House had shaken his faith in the statement that a surplus existed. As to purchase of large estates he asked where the money was to come from for the purpose if it were not borrowed in some form or other. There was no doubt that an earth hunger existed all over the colony, and he would support the Government in their proposal to borrow £250,000 to purchase large estates, although he objected to the manner in which the land was to be disposed of. He would have liked to have seen the Treasurer come out boldly with a proposal to establish a State bank. Captain Russell moved the adjoifrnraenb of the debate. The House rose at 12.5 a.m.