FEDERATION.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 8541, 15 April 1891, Page 5

FEDERATION.

THE NEW ZEALAND DELEGATES AT THE CONVENTION. THEIR VIEWS AND SUGGESTIONS. AN INTERVIEW. Two of the New Zealand delegatus at the Federal Convention—Sir Harry Atkinson, and the Hon. Captain W. R. Russell interviewed yesterday by a Herald representative in regard to the subject of Federation. SIB H. 'ATKINSON. When asked as to the position of New Zealand in rogard to the Federation, Sir Harry Atkinson at once declared that lie thought it would be impossible for New Zealand to join, because of financial questions. "I do not see," he said, " how we could undertake the financial arrangements they propose. It is proposed that the Federal Parliament shall take over the control of the Customs' and Excise, and, after deducting the cost of Federal Government, hand us back the balance. Now, the Federal Parliament will put on a universal tariff for the Commonwealth, and if, as is probable, that tariff will be lower than that now existing in New Zealand, how are we to recoup the loss? If you take the tariffs of Australia, you will see that the Melbourne tariff, which is generally supposed to be the highest, is about 10 per cent., whilst ours, I think, is somewhere about 10 per cent. If an average of all the tariffs were taken, and that became the general tariff for the Commonwealth, the amount it would yield would be £150,000 less than the present Now Zealand tariff. Where, then, would we raise the additional revenue which would be required ? I see no way of raising it. It could not be obtained by direct taxation, because any increase of taxation would bo out of the question. " This objection seems to me to be fatal. I see objections to some other of the proposals in the Constitution Bill, passed by the Federal Convention ; but those are of small importance, and this outweighs them all, and will, I think, prevent New Zealand from joining the Federation. Our bondholders will have very serious objection to a proposal to take away from us the power of taxation, which is their security. " If the Federal Parliament take over the rights of Customs and Excise, they should in all fairness take over our public debt, and that they do not seem inclined to do."

Sir Harry Atkinson went on to apeak of the other alternative —thut New Zealand should remain out of the Federation. He said lie would consider that very unfortunate. " Why?" asked the interviewer. " Well, for one tiling, because of the attitude of the British Government in permitting France and Germany to take all these small islands in the .South Seas. I know that many people disagree with me in my views on this subject; but I believe that, if Australia were federated without New Zealand, the home Government would look to her entirely, and would not consider Mow Zealand. What chance would we have with a powerful neighbour like that— hundred thousand people against three millions ? "New Zealand, of course, should enter the Federation, but I believe we ought first to keep our engagements with our creditors; and the difficulty of raising revenue if the Customs and Excise are under the control of the Federal Parliament, makes it impossible for New Zealand to enter the Federation. Those who favour a land and income tax as a meaus of revenue, are really being led into a trap. If such a tax was imposed, those Auckland gentlemen would very soon find their mistake. They would soon find that the middle men would be caught, and that the big men would go free." Sir Harry Atkinson said it would be impossible to say when the Federation would become an accomplished fact. " The Bill," he want on, " provides that if three colonies join, the Federation may be proceeded with. Several people seem very sanguine that Queensland and New South ales will join, whether others will or not. But, of course, all at present, is coiyecture. Everything depends upon what will be done by the various Parliaments. The Bill will bo submitted to the Mew Zealand Parliament next session, and will then be fully considered. The people may have something to say to it, too, either by a referendum or the election of a new Parliament.

" There is no question," continued Sir Harry Atkinson, " that, as a result of the Convention, the federal idea has become general. I'eeliiiE on the subject has been greatly aroused, and men's minds are full of the question. The Bill, for a first attempt, is a very good one ; but I should like to have seen it put forward merely as a tentative measure, so that, after consideration by the various Parliaments, there would then be another Convention. A matter so important as this cannot be rushed through in a hurry, and if that had been done there would have been a better opportunity of gauging public opinion on the subject. 1 may say that there was a general feeling at the Convention that New Zealand should have sent seven delegates, as the other colonies did, instead of only three. Speaking as to the commercial results of the Federation, Sir H. Atkinson said that if New Zealand joined, the result would be that in this colony production would be stimulated very much. "We pay now," he said, " about £144,000 as duty for our produce in the Australian markets, while we collect only £18,000. Under Federation, of course, we should have to pay nothing. There is a disposition amongst Victorian farmers that Mew Zealand should not join the Federation, because they are afraid of the competition in oats. They cannot grow oats there like those grown in New Zealand, and they now crush out New Zealand oats with a heavy duty." As to his health, Sir Harry Atkinson said it was as good as lie could hope it to be. He had enjoyed the trip comparatively well: but he did not travel about in any part of Australia. He had been unable to take any journeys, and the doctors did not allow him to speak at the Convention, otherwise he would have said- a great deal.

CAPTAIN RUSSELL. The Hon. Captain Russell, in conversation with the interviewer, said chat the desire for federation, and the knowledge of its consequences, had advanced enormously. People knew ten times as much about it now as they did before the Convention, and the delegates themselves had been well educated on the subject by meeting together and discussing it.

He went on to say : " I think it would have been better if, instead of completely passing the Bill at the Convention, we had another Convention next year. Time would then have been given t,o assimilate the provisions of the Bill, and there would have been an opportunity of ascertaining public opinion. At present there is no real public opinion on the subject in New Zealand, and I am not sure that there is any in Australia. " The Constitution Bill, as introduced, was a very clever Bill, and well drafted, though there are certain points in it which might have been improved upon. For instance, for an outlying colony like New Zealand to join, it is absolutely essential that there should lie the most complete power in the hands of the Senate so that the interests of the colony should be guarded. The mistake that many in the Convention made, find that many here will be liable to make, is that the Senate will be an Upper House. It will not be an Upper House. The House of Representatives will, of course, represent the people, but the Senate will represent the States, and will consider any question in which the interests of one colony will clash with those ot auother. ' One of the principal defects of the Bill was considered by Captain to be that while power was given to the Federal Parliament to levy the Customs and Excise duties, and thus to absorb the revenue of a colony, there was no provision that it should take over the responsibilities of a colony. This is the point upon which Sir Harry Atkinson laid so much stress. Captain Russell went on to say that the Federal Parliament had pewer under the . Bill to borrow money on the public credit of the Commonwealth ; and while it was claimed by some people that this power would be exercised with great discretion, vet the power was there. • Captain Russell said he wished to speak • very guardedly as to the position of New Zealand regarding the Federation, since the delegates would meet Parliament on the subject. The Bill would he laid on the table, and discussion must take place. "he wish was that it should bo discussed aside from party politics, but ' the fear was that party polities might be introduced. As to the time which must elapse before the Federation came into existence, Captain Russell said that there must bo at least a period of three [years, but he believed that the Federation would not be a fact for five years. The member for Hawke's Bay spoke highly of the hospitality of the people of Sydney, and said he enjoyed the trip - very much. ...